Why ask this question?

Temujin

Well-known member
Still no evidence for your nature did it claim
 

ferengi

Well-known member
When a person states that no evidence for gods exists, why would you ask the inane question:- "...and your evidence is...?" ?
Because you are ignorant of philosophy and logic.
The person making this claim becomes a claimant. The claimant incurs the burden of proof to support their claim evidentially as true.
So your inane question is bone of sheer blind uneducated and total ignorance to most basic rudimentary first semester freshman philosophy.
Those who say there is no evidence for any gods will continue to affirm that fact until evidence to the contrary is provided.
Now you shift the burden - its not up to me to rebut a claim that has not been evidentially proven to be true - its up to the uneducated atheist to live up to their burden of proof.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
Temujin claims nature caused the universe and life to begin - where is the evidence?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
You have not. You have repeatedly failed to do so, despite repeated requests.
Well, since you don't actually want to know the truth, your opinion is immaterial.


Done that. If that's a description of your 'method', then it's equally a description of what I've - and many others - have done.
Then you quit too soon.
Your ongoing rants on the forum bely a collection of underlying biases, and preconceptions about him, and what it means to follow Jesus.
It's not as uncommon as one might think.
The genuinely important thing is to release your biases and preconceptions.

I think what made it easier for me is that I despised religion and wanted nothing to do with it. Hence, the second question I'd asked him-- is this Jesus stuff I'm hearing about for real or just another pile of religious bs.

Something else that I've seen through the years...
Some people simply don't want anything to do with him, regardless. They like the lifestyles they have, and have no interest whatsoever in changing their lives.
The sad thing is that the consequences are exactly what they don't want.

Me too. Got zilch.
Pity. That however doesn't mean that he's not real/knowable.
Based on your ongoing rants here, I'd say that you didn't actually want to know him.

I will. I always believe what is evidenced.
The only way to know YHVH is to do what Jesus said.
He's made it quite clear that in the day you seek him with a whole heart, in THAT day he will be found by you.



As am I.

Done it.
And yet you got zilch.
That leaves me with a few dozen questions about what it is that you done.

That's nice. Completely irrelevant, but nice. I suppose.
It's only irrelevant to people who don't want to know the truth.

Considering that you clearly don't like reading what I've stated, I'd say that it's definitely a you thing, and it has nothing to do with the bible.
Oh, I read it.
Based entirely on what the bible says, it's pretty clear that you are to blame for your own choices.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
You said:

My question is: does that include you?
That depends entirely on how much whiskey you continue to smoke.
It's pretty clear that you have a lot of highly imaginative ideas that have nothing to do with reality, so I'd say that your ideas of me, like your ideas of Jesus are clearly a part of your seriously twisted imagination, most likely due to your beliefs.

You're kind of correct.
I've been sharing ideas, which are conceptual in nature -similar to your Jesus.
So, your ideas, being conceptual, are entirely about your own imagination. And due to their being about your own beliefs and assumptions, they have absolutely no basis in reality.

The difference is that I don't pretend that my ideas exist outside of my mind -which is how they are different from your Jesus.
Clearly you do.

Otherwise you would actually be carrying on a reality based conversation instead of trolling, and promoting your imagination as reality.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
Well, since you don't actually want to know the truth, your opinion is immaterial.4
Ad hominem, unsupported, false.
Then you quit too soon.
Your ongoing rants on the forum bely a collection of underlying biases, and preconceptions about him, and what it means to follow Jesus.
It's not as uncommon as one might think.
The genuinely important thing is to release your biases and preconceptions.
Your ongoing rants on the forum bely a collection of underlying biases, and preconceptions about him, and what it means to follow Jesus.
I think what made it easier for me is that I despised religion and wanted nothing to do with it. Hence, the second question I'd asked him-- is this Jesus stuff I'm hearing about for real or just another pile of religious bs.
Been there, done that, got zilch.
Something else that I've seen through the years...
Some people simply don't want anything to do with him, regardless. They like the lifestyles they have, and have no interest whatsoever in changing their lives.
The sad thing is that the consequences are exactly what they don't want.
More unsupported nonsense.
Pity. That however doesn't mean that he's not real/knowable.
Nor do your claims mean that he is real/knowable.
Based on your ongoing rants here, I'd say that you didn't actually want to know him.
Ad hominem, unsupported, false.
The only way to know YHVH is to do what Jesus said.
Done it. Got nothing.
He's made it quite clear that in the day you seek him with a whole heart, in THAT day he will be found by you.
Nope. Your interpretation of a thousands-of-years old book by unknown authors claiming that a deity who cannot be shown to exist has made it quite clear. And it's wrong.
And yet you got zilch.
That leaves me with a few dozen questions about what it is that you done.
Just as we all have a few dozen questions about what it is we need to do.
It's only irrelevant to people who don't want to know the truth.
No, it's irrelevant to this discussion, just as it would be if I posted some spiel about a person 'converting' from Christianity to atheism.
Oh, I read it.
Just as I read all of your posts to me.
Based entirely on what the bible says, it's pretty clear that you are to blame for your own choices.
Based entirely on reality, it's pretty clear that you are to blame for your failure to actually communicate with atheists.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Yeah, that's nice but doesn't work unless one has prior belief in Jesus.
That is what your imagination, and probably the imaginations of your fellow atheists are telling you.
What I find sad is that you think that this highly imaginative perspective you and they have is reality.

Your imaginations on this issue are erroneous, and have no basis in fact.



Also, the potential for self-fulfillment and confirmation bias is pretty high with such a method.
You would know.
As you believe that Jesus is not real, your belief is a self-fulfilling prophecy that you will not meet him, and your biases are confirming that for you.

I, and others who follow Jesus have not believed anything about him previously.
I simply asked him if he was real or not, and if this Jesus stuff I'd been hearing about was real or just another pile of religious bs.

I was stunned and caught off guard when he responded to me.

Then, as Richard Wurmbrand wrote about, his own experience too,

“God, I know surely that You do not exist. But if perchance You exist, which I contest, it is not my duty to believe in You; it is Your duty to reveal Yourself to me.”

He allowed God to do what God did.

Each of us who've come to him have done so because we were told about him and did not know.
So, we asked. We engaged him for ourselves.
We didn't let other people tell us how we should think.

Atheists are notorious for their own beliefs saying that what Jesus said is not real, not true, etc...

You've allowed your fellow atheists to convince you that they know better, and now you're wandering aimlessly around and trolling strangers of whom you know nothing, and claiming knowledge you do not possess, and saying that what they know is not real.

I'd say that you are bound by your own bias and preconceptions. Held as a slave, captive to them.


Surely you've thought that through.
Just because thoughts run through my mind doesn't mean that I grab a hold of them and cling to them.
I was taught to test all things. To cling to that which is good and abhor those things that are evil.
Its not unlike a person calling a plumber because they have a leak and the plumber just tells them to believe they don't have a leak and to do what Jesus said to do.
So, you think that is how it works?
Biblical faith is calling the plumber, his coming out to figure out the problem, and then engaging your assistance to identify the problem, and then the plumber fixing the problem.

So, again, yet another imagination of yours. One based on your own bias and preconceptions which have no basis in fact.

Yep, we've all done that.
And yet you can't detail what you did.

Well, that's the problem, see... You have such control over YHVH and you don't seem interested in granting access.
I'm not the one in control or in charge.
You're the one who keeps slandering him.
You're the only one who keeps excluding yourself from engaging him.



Delusion apparently isn't restricted to the United States.
The article I read said he returned to his first love, Jesus Christ.
The Jesus in his imagination.
Funny, Jesus didn't mention anything about it; would a press release be too much to expect?
Perfect example of you excluding yourself from knowing YHVH and Jesus.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
That is what your imagination, and probably the imaginations of your fellow atheists are telling you.
What I find sad is that you think that this highly imaginative perspective you and they have is reality.

Your imaginations on this issue are erroneous, and have no basis in fact.




You would know.
As you believe that Jesus is not real, your belief is a self-fulfilling prophecy that you will not meet him, and your biases are confirming that for you.

I, and others who follow Jesus have not believed anything about him previously.
I simply asked him if he was real or not, and if this Jesus stuff I'd been hearing about was real or just another pile of religious bs.

I was stunned and caught off guard when he responded to me.

Then, as Richard Wurmbrand wrote about, his own experience too,

“God, I know surely that You do not exist. But if perchance You exist, which I contest, it is not my duty to believe in You; it is Your duty to reveal Yourself to me.”

He allowed God to do what God did.

Each of us who've come to him have done so because we were told about him and did not know.
So, we asked. We engaged him for ourselves.
We didn't let other people tell us how we should think.

Atheists are notorious for their own beliefs saying that what Jesus said is not real, not true, etc...

You've allowed your fellow atheists to convince you that they know better, and now you're wandering aimlessly around and trolling strangers of whom you know nothing, and claiming knowledge you do not possess, and saying that what they know is not real.

I'd say that you are bound by your own bias and preconceptions. Held as a slave, captive to them.



Just because thoughts run through my mind doesn't mean that I grab a hold of them and cling to them.
I was taught to test all things. To cling to that which is good and abhor those things that are evil.

So, you think that is how it works?
Biblical faith is calling the plumber, his coming out to figure out the problem, and then engaging your assistance to identify the problem, and then the plumber fixing the problem.

So, again, yet another imagination of yours. One based on your own bias and preconceptions which have no basis in fact.


And yet you can't detail what you did.


I'm not the one in control or in charge.
You're the one who keeps slandering him.
You're the only one who keeps excluding yourself from engaging him.




Perfect example of you excluding yourself from knowing YHVH and Jesus.
Quite right, there are no facts. My lack of belief is based on the lack of facts.
I reject your claims and beliefs because they are indistinguishable from fantasy.
To be specific: I am not convinced there are any tangible, meaningful consequences for not believing what you believe.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
That depends entirely on how much whiskey you continue to smoke.
It's pretty clear that you have a lot of highly imaginative ideas that have nothing to do with reality,
How is that clear?
What do you think I'm imagining, nothing?
So I'm imagining nothing where you imagine something?
And you think I'm out of touch with reality?
I'm curious to see if you can explain that.

BTW, scripture is not evidence of the existence of God. Jesus' words are not evidence of Jesus having actually existed outside of the pages of the story or outside the imaginations of readers.
He might have, but those stories are not evidence, any more than Spiderman comics aren't evidence of the existence of an actual Spiderman.
 
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