Why believe the Gospels?

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Why do you believe The Gospels are true but the Koran, The Book of Mormon, The Vedas, The Ballad of Gilgamesh, The Iliad, and The Pyramid Texts are not?

I see a bookshelf with a thousand religious texts on it. You pull out one of the thousand and say, "this one is true."

Why?
 

Furion

Well-known member
Why do you believe The Gospels are true but the Koran, The Book of Mormon, The Vedas, The Ballad of Gilgamesh, The Iliad, and The Pyramid Texts are not?

I see a bookshelf with a thousand religious texts on it. You pull out one of the thousand and say, "this one is true."

Why?
It's a matter of experience.

But maybe your books should give you comfort.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that
Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



Darkness dwellers lack comprehension.


5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Atheists offer no witnesses. The Word does have witnesses.

Why should we believe local atheists who have no access to any witnesses?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Why do you believe The Gospels are true but the Koran, The Book of Mormon, The Vedas, The Ballad of Gilgamesh, The Iliad, and The Pyramid Texts are not?

I see a bookshelf with a thousand religious texts on it. You pull out one of the thousand and say, "this one is true."

Why?
CS Lewis wrote

“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen, not only because I see it but because by it, I see everything else.”

We who follow Jesus and believe the gospel do so because we have taken the time to learn.

We only see darkness and despair in those other writings.

So, as Jesus said,

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

When you can show us this one in the writings of the others.

Not just say- oh, it's there, but actually provide the quote, and locate/address in those other writings, then we'll investigate it further.
 

Algor

Active member
CS Lewis wrote

“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen, not only because I see it but because by it, I see everything else.”

We who follow Jesus and believe the gospel do so because we have taken the time to learn.

We only see darkness and despair in those other writings.

So, as Jesus said,

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

When you can show us this one in the writings of the others.

Not just say- oh, it's there, but actually provide the quote, and locate/address in those other writings, then we'll investigate it further.
Meh. I've been on Muslim discussion boards where they say in essence the same thing. Accept Allah, study the quran, you'll see why it is all true. Amazing how the same proof is offered for mutually exclusive religions.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Meh. I've been on Muslim discussion boards where they say in essence the same thing. Accept Allah, study the quran, you'll see why it is all true. Amazing how the same proof is offered for mutually exclusive religions.
Then you should go spend your life arguing with muslims.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I'll probably do that a bit more before I die, for sure. But the convergence of their arguments with your arguments is striking.
I have a novel idea for you.
Read the gospels of Jesus and the Quran side by side.
You then figure out what each is saying in order to know God.
 

Algor

Active member
I.e., you're not actually interested in knowing the truth, but you believe offering excuses to justify yourself is a valid argument.
What excuses?

SteveB: Put your head in a metal bucket and hit the bucket with a spoon until your ears ring. Then you will know the truth!

Me: Sounds like a bad methodology that can't, in principle, lead to anywhere useful

SteveB: Stop making excuses!
 

SteveB

Well-known member
What excuses?

SteveB: Put your head in a metal bucket and hit the bucket with a spoon until your ears ring. Then you will know the truth!

Me: Sounds like a bad methodology that can't, in principle, lead to anywhere useful

SteveB: Stop making excuses!
I'm not the one making excuses.

If I need to know how to repair my car, I read the manual, nowadays watch a few YouTube videos and then I start working through the process of doing the repairs.

If I wanted to write code to create a program, I buy a few books for the specific language, look at some examples, and then follow the instructions given by the author of the book.
As i work through the process I eventually get a program that does what I want.

If i wanted to make a meal, but never did so before, i get the recipe for what I wanted to eat, follow the instructions given by the recipe, and then after a while I have a great meal.

This, and tens of thousands of other things in life are how we learn the truth about living.

Jesus has given us the wherewithal, and instructions to know God and Jesus and receive the gift of eternal life.

You're more than welcome to disagree, but your disagreement doesn't change the fact that it's true.

Just like I've been keeping our vehicles operating, coding to make programs to solve computer problems, and preparing meals for decades, in like manner I've been learning to follow the instructions given by Jesus to know God and Jesus and received the gift of eternal life for decades.

It's a simple matter of living on planet earth, and has been for millennia.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Why do you believe The Gospels are true but the Koran, The Book of Mormon, The Vedas, The Ballad of Gilgamesh, The Iliad, and The Pyramid Texts are not?

I see a bookshelf with a thousand religious texts on it. You pull out one of the thousand and say, "this one is true."

Why?
Plenty of reasons...but fulfilled prophecy is one of them.
 

Algor

Active member
I'm not the one making excuses.

If I need to know how to repair my car, I read the manual, nowadays watch a few YouTube videos and then I start working through the process of doing the repairs.

If I wanted to write code to create a program, I buy a few books for the specific language, look at some examples, and then follow the instructions given by the author of the book.
As i work through the process I eventually get a program that does what I want.

If i wanted to make a meal, but never did so before, i get the recipe for what I wanted to eat, follow the instructions given by the recipe, and then after a while I have a great meal.

This, and tens of thousands of other things in life are how we learn the truth about living.

Jesus has given us the wherewithal, and instructions to know God and Jesus and receive the gift of eternal life.

You're more than welcome to disagree, but your disagreement doesn't change the fact that it's true.

Just like I've been keeping our vehicles operating, coding to make programs to solve computer problems, and preparing meals for decades, in like manner I've been learning to follow the instructions given by Jesus to know God and Jesus and received the gift of eternal life for decades.

It's a simple matter of living on planet earth, and has been for millennia.

If you want to know what to believe, you don't take two texts, compare them and pick the best. You ask "Why should I believe anything?" set your criteria, and THEN read the texts.

Why choose between 2 bad options?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
If you want to know what to believe, you don't take two texts, compare them and pick the best. You ask "Why should I believe anything?" set your criteria, and THEN read the texts.

Why choose between 2 bad options?
You're the one who set the terms by choosing the books.
Either step up or step off.
 

Algor

Active member
You're the one who set the terms by choosing the books.
Either step up or step off.
Actually, I didn't. What I said was that I'd heard Muslims make the same arguments as you.

Stop making excuses for your own inability to communicate.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Actually, I didn't. What I said was that I'd heard Muslims make the same arguments as you.

Stop making excuses for your own inability to communicate.
Ah. My mistake. I conflated the OP with your Muslim comment.

Thread 'Why believe the Gospels?' https://forums.carm.org/threads/why-believe-the-gospels.3530/

Well. Since you have just removed yourself from the discussion by complaining about the OP's question, then you don't have to take any responsibility.

I.e., you've just stepped off.

Ciao.
 

Algor

Active member
Ah. My mistake. I conflated the OP with your Muslim comment.

Thread 'Why believe the Gospels?' https://forums.carm.org/threads/why-believe-the-gospels.3530/

Well. Since you have just removed yourself from the discussion by complaining about the OP's question, then you don't have to take any responsibility.

I.e., you've just stepped off.

Ciao.
LOL. I haven't done that either.

Here, just stop making excuses and ask yourself: with the myriad of religions running around out there, why should any particular text be pulled off the shelf and accepted?
 
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SteveB

Well-known member
LOL. I haven't done that either.

You aren't doing too well in this thread. Maybe you need to re-focus.
I'm doing just fine.

You're the one who changed the op then excluded yourself from knowing the truth.
 

Algor

Active member
I'm doing just fine.

You're the one who changed the op then excluded yourself from knowing the truth.
You aren't doing fine at all. All you are doing is making excuses for why you haven't answered the OP with anything other than the same arguments Muslims use, and then accusing me of making excuses when I point out your way of evaluating two religious texts is basically that of a compare-and-contrast highschool essay.

Seriously, you have no general way of approaching a text and deciding whether you should consider its contents accurate or useful?
 
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