Why believe the Gospels?

SteveB

Well-known member
You aren't doing fine at all. All you are doing is making excuses for why you haven't answered the OP with anything other than the same arguments Muslims use, and then accusing me of making excuses when I point out your way of evaluating two religious texts is basically that of a compare-and-contrast highschool essay.

Seriously, you have no general way of approaching a text and deciding whether you should consider its contents accurate or useful?
I answered already.
 

Algor

Active member
I answered already.

.....with the same approach the Muslims use to justify THEIR text......

Doesn't that make you think that your actual approach might be geared towards getting the answer you want from it already?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
.....with the same approach the Muslims use to justify THEIR text......

Doesn't that make you think that your actual approach might be geared towards getting the answer you want from it already?
And yet you are not able to describe, and refuse to take the time to learn how to know the truth.

So, as both AN and I stated, regarding light and darkness, it seems pretty clear that you are in the darkness and actually enjoy the darkness.

“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen, not only because I see it but because by it, I see everything else.”

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

Joh 1:1-5 WEB 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him. Without him, nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness hasn’t overcome it.

in him is the life, and the life is the light of men. His light shines in the darkness and the darkness is not capable of overcoming the light, nor of understanding it.

“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen, not only because I see it but because by it, I see everything else.”

so, I'm going to slightly change Lewis' statement.

“I believe in Jesus as I believe that the Sun has risen, not only because I see it but because by it, I see everything else.”

not only because I see the sun. But by the Son, I see everything else clearly.
 

5wize

Well-known member
I'm not the one making excuses.

If I need to know how to repair my car, I read the manual, nowadays watch a few YouTube videos and then I start working through the process of doing the repairs.

If I wanted to write code to create a program, I buy a few books for the specific language, look at some examples, and then follow the instructions given by the author of the book.
As i work through the process I eventually get a program that does what I want.

If i wanted to make a meal, but never did so before, i get the recipe for what I wanted to eat, follow the instructions given by the recipe, and then after a while I have a great meal.

This, and tens of thousands of other things in life are how we learn the truth about living.

Jesus has given us the wherewithal, and instructions to know God and Jesus and receive the gift of eternal life.

You're more than welcome to disagree, but your disagreement doesn't change the fact that it's true.

Just like I've been keeping our vehicles operating, coding to make programs to solve computer problems, and preparing meals for decades, in like manner I've been learning to follow the instructions given by Jesus to know God and Jesus and received the gift of eternal life for decades.

It's a simple matter of living on planet earth, and has been for millennia.
But the Bible is useless as a manual for human reality where car manuals actually tell you how to do something with relevance and efficacy. I've already tried to use the Bible the way you say to use it. The only ones I saw that continue with the exercise are the ones with a low bar for self delusion.
 

Algor

Active member
And yet you are not able to describe, and refuse to take the time to learn how to know the truth.
Meh. You don't know anything about me, SteveB.

Look at your arguments here: bereft of any cogent, generalizeable principled approach to truth, you take refuge in a sort of thumbsucking: "You Can't Know Unless You Do As I Do First." It's a huge backpedalling retreat into obscurantism. Any position can be defended by saying "You don't know what it is like to be me, ohandbythewayyoureabigmeandummy". That's all you are offering. It's weak.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Meh. You don't know anything about me, SteveB.

Look at your arguments here: bereft of any cogent, generalizeable principled approach to truth, you take refuge in a sort of thumbsucking: "You Can't Know Unless You Do As I Do First." It's a huge backpedalling retreat into obscurantism. Any position can be defended by saying "You don't know what it is like to be me, ohandbythewayyoureabigmeandummy". That's all you are offering. It's weak.
When he gets backed into his own conundrums he also bails with "why don't you ask God", "This is where I just trust Jesus", and "some things are not for us to know", thus proving his method fails in providing him the knowledge he claims it does. It fails him so regularly as to be proven useless in his own attempts to prove it otherwise.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
But the Bible is useless as a manual for human reality
Spoken by a guy who doesn't think.


where car manuals actually tell you how to do something with relevance and efficacy.
A car manual is useless and irrelevant to a guy who lives in the deep forest where vehicles are not readily available and serve no purpose.



I've already tried to use the Bible the way you say to use it.
Describe it to me.

The only ones I saw that continue with the exercise are the ones with a low bar for self delusion.
Well, Jesus did say he came to save sinners.
They're the people who have destroyed their lives by living as they pleased, with no regard for anyone else, and only to satisfy their own desires and wants.
As that has a tendency to ruin one's self image, no surprise there.

Looks like your self-righteousness is what's going to exclude you from the Kingdom of God.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Meh. You don't know anything about me, SteveB.
No I don't. But you obviously believe you know enough about me to make the claims you do, but have no idea what you're talking about.
Look at your arguments here: bereft of any cogent, generalizeable principled approach to truth, you take refuge in a sort of thumbsucking: "You Can't Know Unless You Do As I Do First." It's a huge backpedalling retreat into obscurantism. Any position can be defended by saying "You don't know what it is like to be me, ohandbythewayyoureabigmeandummy". That's all you are offering. It's weak.
Congratulations.
You just demonstrated "bereft of any cogent, generalizeable principled approach to truth, you take refuge in a sort of thumbsucking" for me.

And you did it so well.
 

Algor

Active member
No I don't. But you obviously believe you know enough about me to make the claims you do, but have no idea what you're talking about.

SteveB, I'm talking about the mountains of inanity you post here. I have LOTS of evidence to back up my claims, which to date have been about what I can read when you post it here. Which one do you think I'm off base on? Be specific.

Or retreat, as per usual, into obscurantism and charges of personal cowardice. Your choice.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Meh. You don't know anything about me, SteveB. Look at your arguments here: bereft of any cogent, generalizeable principled approach to truth, you take refuge in a sort of thumbsucking: "You Can't Know Unless You Do As I Do First."
Except that what he recommends is never actually what he did. All he did was ask. He instead demands much more of us and just pretends it's what he did.

It's a huge backpedalling retreat into obscurantism. Any position can be defended by saying "You don't know what it is like to be me, ohandbythewayyoureabigmeandummy". That's all you are offering. It's weak.
His most common disengagement was always "Oh well, it's your eternity", which has now given way to his new "Well then, I guess you've made yourself irrelevant".
 

SteveB

Well-known member
SteveB, I'm talking about the mountains of inanity you post here. I have LOTS of evidence to back up my claims, which to date have been about what I can read when you post it here. Which one do you think I'm off base on? Be specific.

Or retreat, as per usual, into obscurantism and charges of personal cowardice. Your choice.
So you think that your ignorance is proof that you're right?

We call that egomania.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
You aren't doing fine at all. All you are doing is making excuses for why you haven't answered the OP with anything other than the same arguments Muslims use, and then accusing me of making excuses when I point out your way of evaluating two religious texts is basically that of a compare-and-contrast highschool essay.

Seriously, you have no general way of approaching a text and deciding whether you should consider its contents accurate or useful?
So what is your excuse?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
LOL

No, I think your arguments demonstrate your inability to make a cogent case. I wouldn't generalize that to all Christians.
It's ironic that you think that this is an argument that you're going to win.
The gospel is really simple.

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

"We"? The international union of befuddled obscurantists?
It's your words.

I thought you stated it quite eloquently too.

bereft of any cogent, generalizeable principled approach to truth, you take refuge in a sort of thumbsucking
 

Algor

Active member
It's ironic that you think that this is an argument that you're going to win.
The gospel is really simple.

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

I have absolutely no hope of winning any disagreement here. Let's just say that if you think posting that is responsive, it isn't an argument I need to win.


It's your words.

I thought you stated it quite eloquently too.

bereft of any cogent, generalizeable principled approach to truth, you take refuge in a sort of thumbsucking

So now, finding the grade 7 pattern of "You don't know what it's like to be me" unavailing, you've gone two grades younger, and its "No I'm not. YOU ARE!".

Weak, SteveB. Really weak.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I have absolutely no hope of winning any disagreement here. Let's just say that if you think posting that is responsive, it isn't an argument I need to win.
And yet you continue to argue.
Jesus' resurrection finished it.
Unless you turn to God from your sin and place your trust in Jesus, you will perish.
And in perishing, you will live in a prison from which you will never escape or have hope.

So now, finding the grade 7 pattern of "You don't know what it's like to be me" unavailing, you've gone two grades younger, and its "No I'm not. YOU ARE!".

Weak, SteveB. Really weak.
And yet here you are using that very practice.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Unless you turn to God from your sin and place your trust in Jesus, you will perish.
That's not what you did though. At least not as a first step. You just asked God and got a response, without which you would not have been able to do what you here recommend. Yet we don't get that response, so we're unable to follow your above suggestion.
 

Algor

Active member
And yet you continue to argue.
Jesus' resurrection finished it.
Unless you turn to God from your sin and place your trust in Jesus, you will perish.
And in perishing, you will live in a prison from which you will never escape or have hope.
I'll risk it. Toodles!
 
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