Why believe the Gospels?

SteveB

Well-known member
That's not what you did though. At least not as a first step. You just asked God and got a response, without which you would not have been able to do what you here recommend. Yet we don't get that response, so we're unable to follow your above suggestion.
You still have a choice in the matter.
Arguing your ineptitude isn't helping you.

I did in fact turn to God from my sin.
I asked him if he was real and if Jesus was real and the gospel was true.

Once he answered, I placed my trust in Jesus.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
You still have a choice in the matter.
Where's the choice?

Arguing your ineptitude isn't helping you.
Where did I do that? Quote please.

I did in fact turn to God from my sin.
Before or after getting a response from God?

I asked him if he was real and if Jesus was real and the gospel was true.
So did I.

Once he answered, I placed my trust in Jesus.
So why are you asking others to do that before God has answered them?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Where's the choice?
If you don't see it after having it explained to you for over 8 years, then you're not going to see it.
Where did I do that? Quote please.
All your posts, trollings, and ongoing comments.

Before or after getting a response from God?
Apparently before.
You've repeatedly demonstrated that you over-complicate this matter.
So did I.
And yet you received a response different from your expectation, making you believe that you didn't receive any response.
We call that confirmation bias and preconceptions.
The problem here is that you have preconceptions about YHVH and your beliefs in unbelief exclude you from learning.

So why are you asking others to do that before God has answered them?
When you learn that nobody knows until they ask, and then learn, you will understand.

Every single experience I've had in my life for the past 61 years has been because I first heard, and then learned. I learned by inquiry, by reading, by application and then through these practices, I came to know and understand.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
If you don't see it after having it explained to you for over 8 years, then you're not going to see it.
So again, where's the choice? Do you not know?

All your posts, trollings, and ongoing comments.
I said to quote an example. Why can't you? Were you just making things up again?

Apparently before.
You've repeatedly demonstrated that you over-complicate this matter.
You turned to God before he answered you? So you did believe before asking? Or by 'turn to God' do you just mean that you asked? Because in that case we've already turned to God as well - we just found Him to not be there.

And yet you received a response different from your expectation, making you believe that you didn't receive any response.
No, that's not what happened. Why do you make out your God to be so incompetent at responding unambiguously to our questions?

We call that confirmation bias and preconceptions.
The problem here is that you have preconceptions about YHVH and your beliefs in unbelief exclude you from learning.
So you still haven't learned what confirmation bias is? How many people have explained it to you now?

When you learn that nobody knows until they ask, and then learn, you will understand.

Every single experience I've had in my life for the past 61 years has been because I first heard, and then learned. I learned by inquiry, by reading, by application and then through these practices, I came to know and understand.
And yet you still haven't learned what confirmation bias is. Why has all your reading, learning, and applying still failed to bring you any understanding on why it makes no sense to tell others to put their trust in Jesus before getting the response that you needed in order to do the same?
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
CS Lewis wrote

“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen, not only because I see it but because by it, I see everything else.”

We who follow Jesus and believe the gospel do so because we have taken the time to learn.

We only see darkness and despair in those other writings.

So, as Jesus said,

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

When you can show us this one in the writings of the others.

Not just say- oh, it's there, but actually provide the quote, and locate/address in those other writings, then we'll investigate it further.
So you believe the Gospels because of...CS Lewis? And you think the writings of Jainism, Hinduism, and the thousands of other religions are 'darkness'?

OK. Solid argument. Thanks.

"Sing the song of celestial love, O singer! May the divine fountain of eternal grace and joy enter your soul.
May Brahma, (the Divine One), pluck the strings of your inner soul with His celestial fingers, And feel His own presence within.
Bless us with a divine voice that we may tune the harp-strings of our life to sing songs of Love to you."

-- from the Hindu Rig Veda

Yeah - I see what you mean - all those songs of love are just a straight highway to darkness.

;)
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Plenty of reasons...but fulfilled prophecy is one of them.
Do you believe anything with a fulfilled prophecy? If I find an Egyptian fulfilled prophecy will you believe in Horus and Osiris? If not then it is really not fulfilled prophecy that makes you believe now is it?

Your answer does not make any sense. But I'll find you some fulfilled prophecies that you can shoot down if I need to hammer home this point.

I'll see if I have time.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
The Spirit has manifested in me love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. Just like 2000 years ago. As merely one example.
So - it is a feeling? You have a good feeling about The Bible and you do not have a good feeling about the other thousands of books? It has nothing to do with the nature of The Bible or the evidence for Jesus or any proof at all? It is just the book you like the best and choose to believe?

That actually makes sense. However, it makes it almost impossible for you to convince anyone else that your book is the right one. They have joy, peace, and kindness from the Vedas and their holy books too.

Thank you.
 

Furion

Well-known member
So - it is a feeling? You have a good feeling about The Bible and you do not have a good feeling about the other thousands of books? It has nothing to do with the nature of The Bible or the evidence for Jesus or any proof at all? It is just the book you like the best and choose to believe?

That actually makes sense. However, it makes it almost impossible for you to convince anyone else that your book is the right one. They have joy, peace, and kindness from the Vedas and their holy books too.

Thank you.
I don't see anyone trying to convince you of anything. They'll just let you bury your own.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
I don't see anyone trying to convince you of anything. They'll just let you bury your own.
So now your argument is that no one is trying to convince me of anything on an apologetic Christian forum dedicated to defending the faith specifically to atheists? Seriously?

Oh come on - even you are not buying that one. This is just an utter and complete retreat from the conversation.

But if you want to take you ball and go home that's cool - we can play another game :)
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Do you believe anything with a fulfilled prophecy? If I find an Egyptian fulfilled prophecy will you believe in Horus and Osiris? If not then it is really not fulfilled prophecy that makes you believe now is it?

Your answer does not make any sense. But I'll find you some fulfilled prophecies that you can shoot down if I need to hammer home this point.

I'll see if I have time.
Present it.

Just for the record there is over 300 fulfilled prophecy concerning Jesus alone...not to mention the fulfilled prophecy on other topics.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Present it.

Just for the record there is over 300 fulfilled prophecy concerning Jesus alone...not to mention the fulfilled prophecy on other topics.
No thanks. It is a waste of my time. There is about a zero percent chance that I present a fulfilled Egyptian prophecy and you say, "huh - well now I believe in Osiris because I am all about fulfilled prophecy!"

Madness.

I accept your argument that the stuff Christians wrote in the NT somehow, miraculously, matches the OT prophecies that the Christians needed to match. And you think there is no way the guys who had the OT could possibly write the NT to match it. That had to be God. Like if the messiah was born in the wrong town they would not have some way to get him from Nazareth to Jerusalem for a census that did not exist just to fit the OT. Impossible - had to be supernatural.

I'm just exhausted.

If you need to call this some kind of win then I accept defeat.

Take care.
 

Furion

Well-known member
So now your argument is that no one is trying to convince me of anything on an apologetic Christian forum dedicated to defending the faith specifically to atheists? Seriously?
Yes, Seriously. There are no evangelists taking part here.

Believe me, online and in my personal life, the idea of "witnessing" to atheists is a non starter, no one desires anything to do with it.
Oh come on - even you are not buying that one. This is just an utter and complete retreat from the conversation.

But if you want to take you ball and go home that's cool - we can play another game :)
Its even worse in my paradigm. Someone brazenly anti-God is considered something completely different. I am trying to be gentle saying it to you.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Yes, Seriously. There are no evangelists taking part here.

Believe me, online and in my personal life, the idea of "witnessing" to atheists is a non starter, no one desires anything to do with it.
Then you misunderstand the purpose of an apologetic forum built for Christians to defend the faith to atheists. You are in the wrong forum.
Its even worse in my paradigm. Someone brazenly anti-God is considered something completely different. I am trying to be gentle saying it to you.
I am not anti-god any more than I am anti-Osiris.

I do not like people who claim to know everything about the universe, tell you how to live, think if you do not believe them you deserve to burn, and have no way of proving anything they say is right.

Luckily this kind of thing is going the way of the Dodo Bird. In 5-10 years Christians will be a minority in the USA and we can just ignore people who claim to speak for a god they cannot prove. We'll be left with more reason, logic, and genuine debate. Almost all of the Western Democracies are already there. Christianity has zero influence in policies and debate in the EU, Japan, South Kores, etc.

The US will be there soon.

So there really is no need to prove you wrong or to demand you prove anything.

I just need to wait.
 

spinningstill

Active member
Why do you believe The Gospels are true but the Koran, The Book of Mormon, The Vedas, The Ballad of Gilgamesh, The Iliad, and The Pyramid Texts are not?

I see a bookshelf with a thousand religious texts on it. You pull out one of the thousand and say, "this one is true."

Why?
In part because God gives us the Holy Spirit (John 15:26). The Holy Spirit then leads and guides our life. The Bible speaks of being living and active (Hebrews 4:12). I find that it is.

Some experiences are included. However, it is critical that we align our experiences with the Word of God.

There is also the Spirit of Adoption as sons and daughters (Ephesians 1:5).
 

Furion

Well-known member
Then you misunderstand the purpose of an apologetic forum built for Christians to defend the faith to atheists. You are in the wrong forum.

Nah, that is not what this forum is about. That is what you think takes place.

I am not anti-god any more than I am anti-Osiris.

Actually God is the judge of that, and you walk like a duck.

I am fascinated in your telling of your glee about the alleged christian downfall, while telling me you are not anti God. It's an enigma I like to poke at, see what comes out. That was one of my purposes coming here long ago, trying to square atheist rhetoric with other atheist rhetoric.

I do not like people who claim to know everything about the universe, tell you how to live, think if you do not believe them you deserve to burn, and have no way of proving anything they say is right.

Ok, sounds personal.

When you read the word of God and become very angry, it's intended effect is being manifest. Think about it.

Luckily this kind of thing is going the way of the Dodo Bird. In 5-10 years Christians will be a minority in the USA and we can just ignore people who claim to speak for a god they cannot prove. We'll be left with more reason, logic, and genuine debate. Almost all of the Western Democracies are already there. Christianity has zero influence in policies and debate in the EU, Japan, South Kores, etc.

Is this where you tell me you are happy religion will soon be a doo doo bird, yet your really respect the people anyway, you don't really dislike religionists with high passion?


The US will be there soon.

So there really is no need to prove you wrong or to demand you prove anything.

I just need to wait.
Dude, as stated before, that anvil doesn't even have a scratch. Not even the gates of lightly hearted atheists can prevail.

Even in christian hating, atheist loving commie china there are more christians than people in the US.

I think you are an angry hearted atheist who can't seem to come to grips why you hate Christ so much. Honest assessments of your true feelings is a start to recovery.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
In part because God gives us the Holy Spirit (John 15:26). The Holy Spirit then leads and guides our life. The Bible speaks of being living and active (Hebrews 4:12). I find that it is.
All religious books speak of gods giving us their grace. Why believe The Bible but not the others?
Some experiences are included. However, it is critical that we align our experiences with the Word of God.

There is also the Spirit of Adoption as sons and daughters (Ephesians 1:5).
So you have just chosen to believe everything in one of the ancient books and ignore the rest. You cannot articulate why. You just believe.

Thanks.
 

Lighthearted Atheist

Well-known member
Actually God is the judge of that, and you walk like a duck.
My issue used to be with people who claimed to know the mind of a God and tried to use that to make people do what they say. I did not like when abortion, LGBTQ, science text books, etc were influenced by people who said they spoke for God.

Now that Christianity is not really a force in American politics anymore I am not sure I have any issue with you or your beliefs.

Times change and I am trying to change with them.
I am fascinated in your telling of your glee about the alleged christian downfall, while telling me you are not anti God. It's an enigma I like to poke at, see what comes out. That was one of my purposes coming here long ago, trying to square atheist rhetoric with other atheist rhetoric.
Not my best moment and I regret typing it. It was rude of me and I apologize.
When you read the word of God and become very angry, it's intended effect is being manifest. Think about it.
The Bible does not make me angry. It has the same impact as The Koran or The Iliad or The Book of Mormon. My issue is with anyone who makes claims of supernatural knowledge that cannot prove it.

But that is lessening. I care less and less if people believe in Christ or astrology or Allah or Lord Shiva as long as they do not force those beliefs into laws and the classroom.
Is this where you tell me you are happy religion will soon be a doo doo bird, yet your really respect the people anyway, you don't really dislike religionists with high passion?
I was rude when I said that and I regret it. I apologize for my tone.
Dude, as stated before, that anvil doesn't even have a scratch. Not even the gates of lightly hearted atheists can prevail.

Even in christian hating, atheist loving commie china there are more christians than people in the US.

I think you are an angry hearted atheist who can't seem to come to grips why you hate Christ so much. Honest assessments of your true feelings is a start to recovery.
I cannot hate something that does not exist. And I don't really have an issue with Christianity anymore now that the Evangelical movement is no longer influencing US policy. When the 'family values' Evangelicals supported Trump it became clear that they had morphed into something else. Things change and I do not think Christianity is the problem anymore.

So I just accept you believe what you do and I wish you well :)
 

spinningstill

Active member
All religious books speak of gods giving us their grace. Why believe The Bible but not the others?
Christians have chosen to believe by the power of the Holy Spirit. Through the Holy Spirit, Christians are released from the bondage of practicing sin. And have come to know God as Father through the Spirit of Adoption as outlined in Ephesians 1.
So you have just chosen to believe everything in one of the ancient books and ignore the rest.
I believe the what the Bible says, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

I hope that answers your questions.
 
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