Why can't God speak for himself?

docphin5

Well-known member
Why does he only speak through books and His believers?

I can speak for myself. Why can't the supposed creator of everything that exists?
If I may attempt an answer. First, I think God does speak to individuals in different ways, sometimes directly. But not how you probably are inferring as if around the kitchen table, having a meal, sharing stories. Instead, it is in small bits, —a little here, a little there. It may be due to the fact that his family is not all together yet. Maybe he needs us all together in unity before we will see and hear perfectly.

Paul said the following: “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.”

Valentinius (Tripartate Tractate) described the family assisting one another to know him in oneness as a great inbreathing. Again, the motif of perfect communion comes when the family is working together as one which won’t be complete until all those believers who now sleep and all the future believers are together.

For the Father, the exalted one, they know by his Will, which [is] the Spirit that breathes through the members of the All and gives them a thought to search for the unknown, just as somebody is moved by a fragrance to seek the source of that fragrance—and the fragrance of the Father surpasses such unworthy things. For its sweetness lets the aeons sense an indescribable pleasure, and gives them the thought that they should be united with the one who desires that they should know him in oneness, and that they should assist one another through the spirit that is sown in them. They find themselves in a great and powerful inbreathing where they are renewed in a speechless manner and are formed, having no occasion to turn away through thoughtlessness from that in which they are placed.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
I respect both of you and your opinions - but I'm literally getting nothing. And I'm obviously not the only one who will say this.

My problem is that I have to be told that God is speaking to me - by things and people other than God. That's not an effective use of communication.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Why does he only speak through books and His believers?

I can speak for myself. Why can't the supposed creator of everything that exists?
Meaningless question based on Ignorance.

God Speaks for himself when He desires to, and to whom he desires to.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Hebrews 1

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
 

J regia

Well-known member
Hebrews 1

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
So why doesn't he bother to speak to us now, even if your name is Moses or Abraham or Jesus or David?
 

docphin5

Well-known member
I respect both of you and your opinions - but I'm literally getting nothing. And I'm obviously not the only one who will say this.

My problem is that I have to be told that God is speaking to me - by things and people other than God. That's not an effective use of communication.
How does the infinite talk to the finite? He would have to reduce himself to our level for us to understand him. Which is the purpose of the creation Aka the “Son” of God: the sum of all things, etc. “Nobody knows the Father except through the Son” etc.

IOW he speaks to us through things created otherwise we could never understand him. The purpose of the Son is to reveal the Good Father of All. The Son is him coming independently as his own Son for the benefit of us. Creation gives us substance, reason/intellect, and virtues (Spirit) so that we can know of and about the Good God.
 
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Whateverman

Well-known member
How does the infinite talk to the finite? He would have to reduce himself to our level for us to understand him.
Or, you know, talk. Just talk. He can still be the lordly lord of everything, and open his mouth to say something. I wouldn't call that "reducing himself to our level".

Which is the purpose of the creation Aka the “Son” of God: the sum of all things, etc. “Nobody knows the Father except through the Son” etc.

IOW he speaks to us through things created otherwise we could never understand him.
The bible describes God as having the ability to speak...
 

docphin5

Well-known member
Or, you know, talk. Just talk. He can still be the lordly lord of everything, and open his mouth to say something. I wouldn't call that "reducing himself to our level".


The bible describes God as having the ability to speak...
I get what you are saying. You just want to hear it straight from him. For that to happen would require it coming from within yourself. Maybe try prayer. It has worked for others.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Or, you know, talk. Just talk. He can still be the lordly lord of everything, and open his mouth to say something. I wouldn't call that "reducing himself to our level".


The bible describes God as having the ability to speak...
The Doctrine of Signs and Wonders teaches that God is only active when he wants to authenticate his servant's Ministries. The Intertestimonial period between the Old and New Covenants lasted around 430 years and nothing was heard from God during that time...
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
I get what you are saying. You just want to hear it straight from him. For that to happen would require it coming from within yourself.
The bible doesn't say that this is a requirement for God to speak, Reverend RV.

Your post (in general) is an example of why I created this thread. Believers portray their God as needing human help to communicate. You're telling me the ways in which God might communicate his thoughts to me, others are telling me the answer is in a book literally created by human beings in the 21st century, etc.

I need no one's help to communicate. Every relationship I'm in involves me literally communicating my thoughts/ideas/feelings to the other person. I can't imagine having a relationship with another person without this ability. And for the record, I don't consider myself as having a relationship with you or anyone else here; we're all just people talking with each other - but even so, we're the ones communicating.

God is the only being in existence who seems to need others to do His communicating for him. For a creator of everything, I find that strangely weak/impotent.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
The bible doesn't say that this is a requirement for God to speak, Reverend RV.

Your post (in general) is an example of why I created this thread. Believers portray their God as needing human help to communicate. You're telling me the ways in which God might communicate his thoughts to me, others are telling me the answer is in a book literally created by human beings in the 21st century, etc.

I need no one's help to communicate. Every relationship I'm in involves me literally communicating my thoughts/ideas/feelings to the other person. I can't imagine having a relationship with another person without this ability. And for the record, I don't consider myself as having a relationship with you or anyone else here; we're all just people talking with each other - but even so, we're the ones communicating.

God is the only being in existence who seems to need others to do His communicating for him. For a creator of everything, I find that strangely weak/impotent.
Your comments lack any logic at all. You somehow want a transcendent, infinite entity to “talk” to you without first creating sound waves in a configuration which your western mind speaking only one of scores of languages on the earth would be able to comprehend. If he creates sound waves that enter your ear canal which you can intellectually translate into words then he is de facto using creation to “talk” to you. So you want him to create sound waves out of nothing (ex-nihilo) because certainly, you don’t think he actually has a human mouth with vocal chords, do you?

Just think about what you are saying and insisting upon, it makes no sense.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Your comments lack any logic at all. You somehow want a transcendent, infinite entity to “talk” to you without first creating sound waves in a configuration which your western mind speaking only one of scores of languages on the earth would be able to comprehend. If he creates sound waves that enter your ear canal which you can intellectually translate into words then he is de facto using creation to “talk” to you. So you want him to create sound waves out of nothing (ex-nihilo) because certainly, you don’t think he actually has a human mouth with vocal chords, do you?

Just think about what you are saying and insisting upon, it makes no sense.
No, it makes very good sense. The God of the Bible is a God of words. He is a communicator. In the beginning was the word, the logos. The Christian God distinguishes Himself from any other belief in exactly this way. He is a god of interaction in the world, conversation, edict, commandment, miracle, sign, physical struggle directly with, birth of Himself as flesh, and WORD.

Either He exists in this fashion or He does not. Does the silence tell us something? Something at least about how the Christians have defined him in possible error?
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
How does the infinite talk to the finite?
By using words. Surely that can't be beyond him. Like, he can't figure out how to do it?
He would have to reduce himself to our level for us to understand him.
That's not true at all. I don't reduce myself to the level of a child when I talk to a child. I don't change the tone of my voice to be cutesy, I use words I normally use, and I communicate quite well.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
By using words.
what part of post #16 did you you not comprehend? Do you imagine God actually having a mouth and vocal chords in order to create the sound waves to enter your ear canal so that your brain can translate them into words or do you expect him to create ex-nihilo those sounds waves? I just think your expectations are unrealisitc. You might as well ask him to fly a unicorn over the moon Or some other absurd requirement before you will believe. Is it not enough that a whole universe declares the glory of God?
Surely that can't be beyond him. Like, he can't figure out how to do it?

That's not true at all. I don't reduce myself to the level of a child when I talk to a child.
sure you do. Have you ever had kids? If so, then you should know that you don’t explain the source of biological diversity on our planet to a four year old using technical jargon from molecular biology.
I don't change the tone of my voice to be cutesy, I use words I normally use, and I communicate quite well.
Yeah, and a four year old would have no clue what you are talking about.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Your comments lack any logic at all. You somehow want a transcendent, infinite entity to “talk” to you without first creating sound waves in a configuration which your western mind speaking only one of scores of languages on the earth would be able to comprehend.
Lack logic?? The bible says God has done this very thing in the past...
 
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