Why churches today disagree in doctrine

Mellontes

Member
EARNEST OF THE SPIRIT

We begin with an ENTIRE search of the Old Testament for the word “pledge.” Only three results occur. Why am I searching the word “pledge?”

You will find out soon enough. Just take note that only three verses contained the word “pledge” (KJV).​

Gen 38:16 And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?​
Gen 38:17 And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send it?
Gen 38:18 And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him.​
Gen 38:20 And Judah sent the kid by the hand of his friend the Adullamite, to receive his pledge from the woman's hand: but he found her not.​



The word “pledge” from the previous three verses is translated into Greek from the Old Testament Hebrew called the LXX+ (the + indicates Strong’s Numbers). There is no need to be able to speak or read Greek to understand the following principle. You will, however, be required to identify identical Greek words. For example, νυμφη, does not look like αυτην, now does it? Only the second letter, υ, is the same. Easy, peasy.

Gen 38:17 οG3588 T-NSM δεG1161 PRT ειπενV-AAI-3S εγωG1473 P-NS σοιG4771 P-DS αποστελωG649 V-FAI-1S εριφονG2056 N-ASM αιγωνN-GPM εκG1537 PREP τωνG3588 T-GPN προβατωνG4263 N-GPN ηG3588 T-NSF δεG1161 PRT ειπενV-AAI-3S εανG1437 CONJ δωςG1325 V-AAS-2S αρραβωναN-ASM εωςG2193 PREP τουG3588 T-GSN αποστειλαιG649 V-AAN σεG4771 P-AS​
Gen 38:18 οG3588 T-NSM δεG1161 PRT ειπενV-AAI-3S τιναG5100 I-ASM τονG3588 T-ASM αρραβωναN-ASM σοιG4771 P-DS δωσωG1325 V-FAI-1S ηG3588 T-NSF δεG1161 PRT ειπενV-AAI-3S τονG3588 T-ASM δακτυλιονG1146 N-ASM σουG4771 P-GS καιG2532 CONJ τονG3588 T-ASM ορμισκονN-ASM καιG2532 CONJ τηνG3588 T-ASF ραβδονN-ASF τηνG3588 T-ASF ενG1722 PREP τηG3588 T-DSF χειριG5495 N-DSF σουG4771 P-GS καιG2532 CONJ εδωκενG1325 V-AAI-3S αυτηG846 D-DSF καιG2532 CONJ εισηλθενG1525 V-AAI-3S προςG4314 PREP αυτηνG846 D-ASF καιG2532 CONJ ενG1722 PREP γαστριG1064 N-DSF ελαβενG2983 V-AAI-3S εξG1537 PREP αυτουG846 D-GSM​
Gen 38:20 απεστειλενG649 V-AAI-3S δεG1161 PRT ιουδαςG2455 N-PRI τονG3588 T-ASM εριφονG2056 N-ASM εξG1537 PREP αιγωνN-GPM ενG1722 PREP χειριG5495 N-DSF τουG3588 T-GSM ποιμενοςG4166 N-GSM αυτουG846 D-GSM τουG3588 T-GSM οδολλαμιτουN-GSM κομισασθαιG2865 V-AMN τονG3588 T-ASM αρραβωναN-ASM παραG3844 PREP τηςG3588 T-GSF γυναικοςG1135 N-GSF καιG2532 CONJ ουχG3364 ADV ευρενG2147 V-AAI-3S αυτηνG846 D-ASF​



It is very clear that one Greek word “αρραβωνα” represents the word pledge. A little context…btw, if you are unable to see the context I give in the Scriptures, then it is question time again J

Tamar wants to know what she shall be given for her sexual act in verse 16. The response (verse 17) is “a kid from the flock.” Then, Tamar asks for a pledge until “a kid from the flock” has been received. The pledge consists of Judah’s signet, his bracelets, and his staff (verse 18). In verse 20, Judah sends “the kid by the hand of his friend the Adullamite” with the sole purpose “to receive his pledge from the woman's hand.

The pledge was to be returned in exchange for the original promise – a kid from the flock!

Verses 17, 18, and 20 contain the word “pledge.” The Strong’s number from the Hebrew for each of the words is H6162 as shown below:

Gen_38:17 And he said,H559 IH595 will sendH7971 thee a kidH1423 H5795 fromH4480 the flock.H6629 And she said,H559 Wilt thou giveH5414 me a pledge,H6162 tillH5704 thou sendH7971 it?
Gen_38:18 And he said,H559 WhatH4100 pledgeH6162 shall I giveH5414 thee? And she said,H559 Thy signet,H2368 and thy bracelets,H6616 and thy staffH4294 thatH834 is in thine hand.H3027 And he gaveH5414 it her, and came inH935 untoH413 her, and she conceivedH2029 by him.​
Gen_38:20 And JudahH3063 sentH7971 (H853) the kidH1423 H5795 by the handH3027 of his friendH7453 the Adullamite,H5726 to receiveH3947 his pledgeH6162 from the woman'sH802 hand:H4480 H3027 but he foundH4672 her not.H3808​



Searching for other occurrences of H6162 in the Old Testament yielded absolutely no other verses. The only verses in which H6162 (pledge) occurs is with the incident with Tamar. I find that quite amazing all on its own!

Now, we look at the Greek words from the Septuagint (LXX) from the quoted text a few paragraphs above. The Greek word for pledge (highlighted in blue) was as follows:

Verse 17: αρραβωνα…….Verse 18: αρραβωνα..........Verse 20: αρραβωνα

Now, to the New Testament to see where αρραβωνα is used (if anywhere).

It is found that αρραβωνα corresponds with Strong’s Greek number G728 as from the Strong’s Dictionary:

G728
ἀῤῥαβών
arrhabōn
ar-hrab-ohn'
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.
Total KJV occurrences: 3


Notice how it references Strong’s Hebrew H6162 as well. It is a definitive match!

Now, let us search the entire New Testament using the KJV+ (Strong’s number G728).

The search yields a total of three results (as noted by the yellow highlight):

2Co_1:22 Who hath also sealedG4972 G2532 us,G2248 andG2532 givenG1325 theG3588 earnestG728 of theG3588 SpiritG4151 inG1722 ourG2257 hearts.G2588​
2Co_5:5 NowG1161 he that hath wroughtG2716 usG2248 forG1519 the selfsame thingG846 G5124 is God,G2316 who also hath givenG1325 G2532 unto usG2254 theG3588 earnestG728 of theG3588 Spirit.G4151​
Eph_1:14 WhichG3739 isG2076 the earnestG728 of ourG2257 inheritanceG2817 untilG1519 the redemptionG629 of theG3588 purchased possession,G4047 untoG1519 the praiseG1868 of hisG846 glory.G1391​



In the Greek of these verses, we see the various forms of ἀῤῥαβών as follows:

2Co_1:22 οG3588 T-NSM καιG2532 CONJ σφραγισαμενοςG4972 V-AMP-NSM ημαςG1473 P-1AP καιG2532 CONJ δουςG1325 V-2AAP-NSM τονG3588 T-ASM αρραβωναG728 N-ASM τουG3588 T-GSN πνευματοςG4151 N-GSN ενG1722 PREP ταιςG3588 T-DPF καρδιαιςG2588 N-DPF ημωνG1473 P-1GP​
2Co_5:5 οG3588 T-NSM δεG1161 CONJ κατεργασαμενοςG2716 V-ADP-NSM ημαςG1473 P-1AP ειςG1519 PREP αυτοG846 P-ASN τουτοG3778 D-ASN θεοςG2316 N-NSM οG3588 T-NSM καιG2532 CONJ δουςG1325 V-2AAP-NSM ημινG1473 P-1DP τονG3588 T-ASM αρραβωνα G728 N-ASM τουG3588 T-GSN πνευματοςG4151 N-GSN​
Eph_1:14 οςG3739 R-NSM εστινG1510 V-PAI-3S αρραβωνG728 N-NSM τηςG3588 T-GSF κληρονομιαςG2817 N-GSF ημωνG1473 P-1GP ειςG1519 PREP απολυτρωσινG629 N-ASF τηςG3588 T-GSF περιποιησεωςG4047 N-GSF ειςG1519 PREP επαινονG1868 N-ASM τηςG3588 T-GSF δοξηςG1391 N-GSF αυτουG846 P-GSM​

They are the same Greek words! There can be no mistake as to how the same word in Tamar’s account is any different than that of the Holy Spirit’s account of being the pledge in the New Testament epistles.

Studying each of these three verses gives the idea that each individual is “sealed” with this Holy Spirit of promise UNTIL the “redemption of the purchased possession.” As a believer in the past 2nd coming of our Lord, the “redemption of the purchased possession” took place concurrently with the judgement upon the Old Covenant Jews (unsaved) in 70 AD. Therefore, the “pledge” or “earnest” must have been returned to the Father (at least, according to the Scriptures) – the One who gave the Holy Spirit in the first place.

As a prior futurist/dispensationalist, I had been taught the Holy Spirit was like a down payment of sorts until the rapture came. I just accepted that as truth. Try to remember some purchases you made which required a down payment. Now, tell me, when the loan or purchase was paid off, were you ever called into the bank to have your original down payment refunded? NO, a pledge is not the same thing as a down payment! A pledge is the item (or items) that are returned once the original purchase has been paid – in Tamar’s account, the original deal was for “a kid from the flock.” The signet, bracelets, and staff (the pledge) were to be returned to the owner at the completion of the purchase. In the New Testament, it is the purchased possession.
 
(Continuing) The ramifications of such a study are quite startling, but I believe it explains a lot. For instance, how can it be said that so many denominations containing so many varying interpretations (especially that of futurism) all believe they are being led and taught by the same Holy Spirit? That is not how the Holy Spirit works; a little truth here, a little error there. It doesn’t make much difference, right? W – R – O – N – G

Joh 16:13 - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

Was John 16:13 written to us as well? If so, we must conclude that either the Holy Spirit got all mixed up because of our 5G towers :) :), or He was unable to convey truth as was possible in the first century. Uh, uh, not written to us.

I believe ALL prophecies have been fulfilled. I remember the first time I heard that from another individual. I shuddered…until I actually did some BIBLE study instead of COMMENTARY study.

Just in case you didn’t catch the point… The Second Coming had to have occurred for the Earnest to be returned to the Father.

It is just that Second Coming events are not fulfilled with a wooden physical literalism. But very few are even willing to discuss Scripture. They only wish to defer to their system of theology which was spoon fed into them.
 
You're the one who woodenly insists that everything is done, all prophecy is fulfilled, and we're left without God and without hope in this world.
Shroom I think this revelation fits this thread.

Gnat

It is easy to see why the carnal logic and human wisdom is not fit for the discussion of God and His Word. Because no matter what reason or logic you might have carnally , there is an oposing carnal logic or human wisdom. Just take a look at the opinions on this thread.

Mat 23:24
"Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
Mat 23:25
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26
"Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead [men's] bones and all uncleanness.


The knowledge of God can only come through the language of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit only quotes verses, from the new testament. But as you can see none of the people arguing on this thread are making their point with the Word of God but with their own opinions.


Rom 12:16
Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.

2Co 5:5
Now He who has prepared us for this very thing [is] God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

1Co 2:1
And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:3
I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4
And my speech and my preaching [were] not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5
that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6
However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
1Co 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden [wisdom] which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
 
Shroom I think this revelation fits this thread.

Gnat

It is easy to see why the carnal logic and human wisdom is not fit for the discussion of God and His Word. Because no matter what reason or logic you might have carnally , there is an oposing carnal logic or human wisdom. Just take a look at the opinions on this thread.

Mat 23:24
"Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
Mat 23:25
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26
"Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead [men's] bones and all uncleanness.


The knowledge of God can only come through the language of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit only quotes verses, from the new testament. But as you can see none of the people arguing on this thread are making their point with the Word of God but with their own opinions.


Rom 12:16
Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.

2Co 5:5
Now He who has prepared us for this very thing [is] God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

1Co 2:1
And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:3
I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4
And my speech and my preaching [were] not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5
that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6
However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
1Co 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden [wisdom] which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
That's not a "revelation."
 
No proof, no evidence. Just your opinion.
The knowledge of God can only come through the language of the Holy Spirit.
The knowledge of God can come through the spirit, but it primarily comes from reading the Bible.

And the Holy Spirit only quotes verses, from the new testament.
Acts 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

What scripture was the spirit quoting?

Acts 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.

What scriptures was the spirit quoting?

There are many, many more examples. Your belief that the holy spirit only quotes NT verses is false.

But as you can see none of the people arguing on this thread are making their point with the Word of God but with their own opinions.
You try and make points by quoting your "revelations." The verses you quote are legit, but your introductions and your xxx commentary are frequently way off base, the the verses you quote do not support your assertions.
 
The knowledge of God can come through the spirit, but it primarily comes from reading the Bible.


Acts 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

What scripture was the spirit quoting?

Acts 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.

What scriptures was the spirit quoting?

There are many, many more examples. Your belief that the holy spirit only quotes NT verses is false.


You try and make points by quoting your "revelations." The verses you quote are legit, but your introductions and your xxx commentary are frequently way off base, the the verses you quote do not support your assertions.
I have got that before. That is why one must have faith in the Word. We can believe that Jesus did say it before.

[Jhn 21:24-25 NKJV] 24 This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true. 25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
 
I have got that before. That is why one must have faith in the Word. We can believe that Jesus did say it before.

[Jhn 21:24-25 NKJV] 24 This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true. 25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
Ah... With reasoning like that, people could say and believe anything they wanted, and claim "it's one of the things that was not written down."

That doesn't cut it, Squeaky.
 
You're the one who woodenly insists that everything is done, all prophecy is fulfilled, and we're left without God and without hope in this world.
Actually, it is not me saying it...you just don't believe the Scriptures, and you should. But you are like most everyone else. Their theological system (which has quite the variety in "churches" today) must have its own way - forget the Scriptures, if you will.

I am blasted for saying the letters by the Apostles were written only to 1st century churches.
Guess what? I have SCRIPTURE (you know, the stuff a theology is supposed to be composed of) on my side. DOZENS OF SCRIPTURE.

Where are your verses that says the NT letters were written to anyone other than the first century church?

HUH! WHERE ARE THEY?

At least, I am Scriptural. Blast away.
 
Actually, it is not me saying it...you just don't believe the Scriptures, and you should. But you are like most everyone else. Their theological system (which has quite the variety in "churches" today) must have its own way - forget the Scriptures, if you will.

I am blasted for saying the letters by the Apostles were written only to 1st century churches.
Guess what? I have SCRIPTURE (you know, the stuff a theology is supposed to be composed of) on my side. DOZENS OF SCRIPTURE.

Where are your verses that says the NT letters were written to anyone other than the first century church?

HUH! WHERE ARE THEY?

At least, I am Scriptural. Blast away.
What scriptures are we, as Christians today, supposed to go by?
 
Where are your verses that says the NT letters were written to anyone other than the first century church?

HUH! WHERE ARE THEY?

At least, I am Scriptural. Blast away.
You're not distinguishing the addressee from the message itself. The message is everlasting and enduring, the addressees were not, in the sense their bodies died.

The second coming of Christ will be unmistakable and will affect the whole world: Mat 24:27, Luke 17:24. You can't show any such event has taken place.
 
You're not distinguishing the addressee from the message itself. The message is everlasting and enduring, the addressees were not, in the sense their bodies died.

The second coming of Christ will be unmistakable and will affect the whole world: Mat 24:27, Luke 17:24. You can't show any such event has taken place.

Huh, you just agreed with my four questions from 2 Thessalonians, and now you say the 2nd coming is a future event. ???
 
You're not distinguishing the addressee from the message itself. The message is everlasting and enduring, the addressees were not, in the sense their bodies died.

The second coming of Christ will be unmistakable and will affect the whole world: Mat 24:27, Luke 17:24. You can't show any such event has taken place.

No, of course I can't show you where the event TOOK PLACE. The event was still future to when the Scriptures were written. But the judgement coming has always been expressed as a near, nigh, at hand, shortly come to pass, a very very little, etc. event. This Scriptural fact you deny.

The destruction of the Old Covenant economy circa 70AD fits the Scriptures very well.
 
You're not distinguishing the addressee from the message itself. The message is everlasting and enduring, the addressees were not, in the sense their bodies died.

The second coming of Christ will be unmistakable and will affect the whole world: Mat 24:27, Luke 17:24. You can't show any such event has taken place.

I suppose you believe similar things to Matthew 24:29 have NEVER occurred before...
 
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