Why did believers have to wait in the bosom of Abraham instead of going to God's presence immediately?

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
This may have been kicked around already, but I am interested to hear people's ideas from scripture about it.
It occurred to me that when a believer died, prior to the resurrection, they could not go to be in God's presence because they had not yet been indwelt by Christ.
A person who did not have Christ indwelling them, would not be able to live in God's presence but would be destroyed.
If this is true, then it would also mean that when Jesus descended and brought up with Him those who had been captive in Abraham's bosom, those believers would have to have been, during that process, indwelt by Christ so they could stand face to face with the Father.

Other than the scriptures I am alluding to, I don't know off hand what else I might add scripturally, but I am interested to know what scriptures come to mind along with the accompanying thoughts.
 

Stephen

Active member
This may have been kicked around already, but I am interested to hear people's ideas from scripture about it.
It occurred to me that when a believer died, prior to the resurrection, they could not go to be in God's presence because they had not yet been indwelt by Christ.
A person who did not have Christ indwelling them, would not be able to live in God's presence but would be destroyed.
If this is true, then it would also mean that when Jesus descended and brought up with Him those who had been captive in Abraham's bosom, those believers would have to have been, during that process, indwelt by Christ so they could stand face to face with the Father.

Other than the scriptures I am alluding to, I don't know off hand what else I might add scripturally, but I am interested to know what scriptures come to mind along with the accompanying thoughts.

There are a few assumptions here that I would challenge.
  • Why do you believe Christ descended into Abraham's bosom?
  • Why do you think Abraham's bosom is downwards?

1 Cor 15 is the definitive passage explaining what happens to the dead and the resurrection process. It is lengthy and detailed, and it doesn't mention any of those things. The state of the dead in Christ is described in verses 3-6, they are "asleep" rather than in Abraham's bosom.

The order of events are given also (verses 20-28)
  1. Christ's resurrection
  2. The resurrection of the saints
  3. The kingdom era
  4. The kingdom given up to God
1 Thess 4 is another go-to chapter that describes the state of the dead, and it doesn't mention Abraham's bosom. It states that Christ doesn't come back to earth with his saints, but rather he comes to earth to get the saints. This would suggest that the saints aren't with him where he is, but that they are on the earth.
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
There are a few assumptions here that I would challenge.
  • Why do you believe Christ descended into Abraham's bosom?
  • Why do you think Abraham's bosom is downwards?

1 Cor 15 is the definitive passage explaining what happens to the dead and the resurrection process. It is lengthy and detailed, and it doesn't mention any of those things. The state of the dead in Christ is described in verses 3-6, they are "asleep" rather than in Abraham's bosom.

The order of events are given also (verses 20-28)
  1. Christ's resurrection
  2. The resurrection of the saints
  3. The kingdom era
  4. The kingdom given up to God
1 Thess 4 is another go-to chapter that describes the state of the dead, and it doesn't mention Abraham's bosom. It states that Christ doesn't come back to earth with his saints, but rather he comes to earth to get the saints. This would suggest that the saints aren't with him where he is, but that they are on the earth.
Eph 4:5 uses the word "descended" in reference to what happened when jesus died. so I wonder what you are looking at which causes you an issue?
Concerning 1 Corinthians 15, "He was raised" indicates that He had been lowered.
When dicussing 1 Cor 15, we keep in mind that it was written after the resurrection, and is about Christians. Therefore none of those referenced will go to Abraham's bosom, becaue that is over.
Regarding verses 20-28, Again this is from the POV looking back to the resurrection, so I doubt I would disagree with your order of events, but the passage does not address what he did after he descended, It begins as He ascends.
! thess 4 may be difficult, but again it is not dealing with Christ while He descended and what He did there.

Thanks for the response, I like being provoked to search the scripture and think about what they say
 

Stephen

Active member
Eph 4:5 uses the word "descended" in reference to what happened when jesus died. so I wonder what you are looking at which causes you an issue?

This is about Christ being placed in a tomb.

4:9 What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?

The only reference to "Bosom of Abraham" describes a bodily person placed in a grave and isn't moved from that location (unlike Lazarus), who describes how flames and water affect him.

Concerning 1 Corinthians 15, "He was raised" indicates that He had been lowered.

The context is "raised from the dead"

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.


Yes, Christ descended into the grave but I don't know what that has to do with Abraham's bosom. There are many examples of people being raised from the dead throughout the bible, and none of them report anything about Abraham's bosom.


When dicussing 1 Cor 15, we keep in mind that it was written after the resurrection, and is about Christians. Therefore none of those referenced will go to Abraham's bosom, becaue that is over.
Regarding verses 20-28, Again this is from the POV looking back to the resurrection, so I doubt I would disagree with your order of events, but the passage does not address what he did after he descended, It begins as He ascends.

! thess 4 may be difficult, but again it is not dealing with Christ while He descended and what He did there.

Thanks for the response, I like being provoked to search the scripture and think about what they say

I doubt he did anything after he died. He was dead.
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
This is about Christ being placed in a tomb.

4:9 What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?

The only reference to "Bosom of Abraham" describes a bodily person placed in a grave and isn't moved from that location (unlike Lazarus), who describes how flames and water affect him.



The context is "raised from the dead"

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.


Yes, Christ descended into the grave but I don't know what that has to do with Abraham's bosom. There are many examples of people being raised from the dead throughout the bible, and none of them report anything about Abraham's bosom.




I doubt he did anything after he died. He was dead.
are you challenging the idea that before Jesus resurrected, those who died in faith went to Abraham's bosom?
 
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