Why did God hate Esau?

eternomade

Well-known member
Why did God hate Esau?

In Romans 9:11-13 we find the following:

"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

We find parallels of this in the OT:

23 "And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

2 "I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,"

3 "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Esau also appears to be sincere in his attempt at repentance in Hebrews 12:

16 "Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears."

Back to Romans 9 though. Paul tells us that God hated Esau and loved Jacob, despite anything they had done, because "that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him that calleth."

We also see that God told Moses "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

This verse is in reference to Exodus 33 when Moses tells God "Show me thy glory". What is Gods response to him?

"And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."

So, we see that God hated Esau and loved Jacob, unconditionally, in order that Gods purpose in election might stand. Exodus 33 also shows us that Gods glory is directly tied to election.
 
Why did God hate Esau?
...

So, we see that God hated Esau and loved Jacob, unconditionally, in order that Gods purpose in election might stand. Exodus 33 also shows us that Gods glory is directly tied to election.
Is this 'election' in regards to salvation or in regards to "12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger."?
 
Is this 'election' in regards to salvation or in regards to "12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger."?
Salvation. God chose those in Christ to save before the foundation of the world. Do you believe God saves those that He hates?

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Ephesians 1:4 ESV
 
Salvation. God chose those in Christ to save before the foundation of the world. Do you believe God saves those that He hates?
You'd need to provide within the context of Rom 9 that this 'election' is in regards to salvation, and not or in regards to "12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger."?

[ quote]... even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Ephesians 1:4 ESV
[/QUOTE]
The context is about those in Christ; not, chosen to be in Christ.
 
Why did God hate Esau?

In Romans 9:11-13 we find the following:

"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

We find parallels of this in the OT:

23 "And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

2 "I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,"

3 "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Esau also appears to be sincere in his attempt at repentance in Hebrews 12:

16 "Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears."

Back to Romans 9 though. Paul tells us that God hated Esau and loved Jacob, despite anything they had done, because "that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him that calleth."

We also see that God told Moses "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

This verse is in reference to Exodus 33 when Moses tells God "Show me thy glory". What is Gods response to him?

"And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."

So, we see that God hated Esau and loved Jacob, unconditionally, in order that Gods purpose in election might stand. Exodus 33 also shows us that Gods glory is directly tied to election.
Esau and Jacob in their national capacity of Edom and Israel

Malachi 1:1-4 (KJV)
1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.

because of Edom's violence against Israel

Obadiah 1:8-14 (KJV)
8 Shall I not in that day, saith the LORD, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?
9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.
10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.
11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.
12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;
14 Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.
 
Esau and Jacob in their national capacity of Edom and Israel

Malachi 1:1-4 (KJV)
1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.

because of Edom's violence against Israel

Obadiah 1:8-14 (KJV)
8 Shall I not in that day, saith the LORD, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?
9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.
10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.
11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.
12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;
14 Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.
Ok so that proves my point even better. Esau represents the reprobate. Those who are created(from the same lump of clay) to be vessels of wrath. Jacob represents those in Christ, those who were imputed with His righteousness, created as vessels of mercy.

Election is pictured throughout the law and prophets as Israel vs the world, yet only a remnant of Israel was saved. This is why when Jesus told Nicodemus "FOR God so loved the world".

Nicodemus didn't understand this. He thought that salvation was ethnic Israel only. When Jesus told him it wasn't, and your must be born again, he ruffled some feathers among the Jews.
 
Ok so that proves my point even better. Esau represents the reprobate. Those who are created(from the same lump of clay) to be vessels of wrath. Jacob represents those in Christ, those who were imputed with His righteousness, created as vessels of mercy.

Election is pictured throughout the law and prophets as Israel vs the world, yet only a remnant of Israel was saved. This is why when Jesus told Nicodemus "FOR God so loved the world".

Nicodemus didn't understand this. He thought that salvation was ethnic Israel only. When Jesus told him it wasn't, and your must be born again, he ruffled some feathers among the Jews.
Making Esau into Edom only multiples the Hated of God...
 
As the older brother, Esau was in line to be the next Melchizedek
he refused to learn to read and write, and to go study the ways of God
with Shem and Eber
as a hunter and fighter, he had rivalries
one kool thing he did was kill his rival Nimrod
by ambushing him during a hunting episode where Nimrod got away from his group

part in thinking he would be eventually killed himself
he did not value his inheritance much
he had to abdicate it before Jacob could usurp it, which he did with the bowl of stew thing
Abraham also knew Esau was not the next one, and had been talking to Rebeccah about this
influencing what happened next with the deceptive blessing

Esau also didn't care where he was to be buried
and sold his portion at Machpelah to Jacob as well
He was later very grieved and vexed over the loss of his birthright and inheritance
Jacob was afraid of Esau and his people for many years afterword
Esau having hundreds of warriors at his command

Jacob was very respectful of Esau, always acknowledging his position as the older brother
after Jacob had acquired his wives, children, and livestock
they have a VERY tense, but then tearful reconciliation in ch. 32 of book of Jasher
it says Jacob had Angelic help that day, so Esau made the right choice
in keeping his kool, 'cuz he and his boys were close to getting wrecked
 
Ok so that proves my point even better. Esau represents the reprobate. Those who are created(from the same lump of clay) to be vessels of wrath. Jacob represents those in Christ, those who were imputed with His righteousness, created as vessels of mercy.
Sorry There is no evidence all Edomites was reprobate in regard to salvation and it is contrary to fact all Israel elect to salvation

Election here was to service

God chose the nation of Israel rather than the nation of Edom to bring messiah and his message into the world
 
Sorry There is no evidence all Edomites was reprobate in regard to salvation and it is contrary to fact all Israel elect to salvation

Election here was to service

God chose the nation of Israel rather than the nation of Edom to bring messiah and his message into the world
I didn't say that. I said that Jacob and Esau are types in election, like Romans 9 is saying. Not all of Israel is Israel. So I reject that all of Israel(ethnic) will be saved. There has always been a remnant. Keep reading.
 
Election here was to service
God chose the nation of Israel rather than the nation of Edom to bring messiah and his message into the world
So I reject that all of Israel(ethnic) will be saved. There has always been a remnant.
yeah, it's not like there is a universal salvation of all Israelites/Jews that have ever existed or will
that People/nation just have a unique relationship with God and calling

it was prophesied that as a unit they would reject Messiah
and it's explained that Gentiles will benefit from that for a while Romans 11
just as Israel benefited in ways the Gentiles mostly did not for a while
 
yeah, it's not like there is a universal salvation of all Israelites/Jews that have ever existed or will
that People/nation just have a unique relationship with God and calling

it was prophesied that as a unit they would reject Messiah
and it's explained that Gentiles will benefit from that for a while Romans 11
just as Israel benefited in ways the Gentiles mostly did not for a while
Yes
 
So, we see that God hated Esau and loved Jacob, unconditionally, in order that Gods purpose in election might stand. Exodus 33 also shows us that Gods glory is directly tied to election.

I don't believe this.

We are warned not to be like Esau in selling our birthright for our carnal desires.

Why would we be warned to not be unconditionally hated by God and chosen to be reprobate?

That's not something we have any control over, not something we can do anything about.

Esau had a birthright to sell—and that means he was given a chance and loved.
 
I didn't say that. I said that Jacob and Esau are types in election, like Romans 9 is saying. Not all of Israel is Israel. So I reject that all of Israel(ethnic) will be saved. There has always been a remnant. Keep reading.
Ok Bottom-line Romans 9 does nothing to prove unconditional election to salvation
 
Ok Bottom-line Romans 9 does nothing to prove unconditional election to salvation

It's the strongest sounding passage in Scripture.

It's really the only one that ever gave me trouble.

Here an Arminian "walks through the text" of Romans 9:

 
Why did God hate Esau?

In Romans 9:11-13 we find the following:

"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

We find parallels of this in the OT:

23 "And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

2 "I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,"

3 "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Esau also appears to be sincere in his attempt at repentance in Hebrews 12:

16 "Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears."

Back to Romans 9 though. Paul tells us that God hated Esau and loved Jacob, despite anything they had done, because "that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him that calleth."

We also see that God told Moses "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

This verse is in reference to Exodus 33 when Moses tells God "Show me thy glory". What is Gods response to him?

"And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."

So, we see that God hated Esau and loved Jacob, unconditionally, in order that Gods purpose in election might stand. Exodus 33 also shows us that Gods glory is directly tied to election.
No Romans 9 does not tell us God unconditionally hated Esau (Edom)

Rather God chose Israel rather than Edom so that his purpose might be fulfilled

A 1000 years after Jacob -Esau lived it was stated


Malachi 1 (KJV 1900)


1 THE burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD.
Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us?
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD:
Yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau,
And laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished,
But we will return and build the desolate places;
Thus saith the LORD of hosts,
They shall build, but I will throw down;
And they shall call them, The border of wickedness,
And, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say,
The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.

6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master:
If then I be a father, where is mine honour?
And if I be a master, where is my fear?
Saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name.
And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?
7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar;
And ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee?
In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible.
8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil?
And if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil?
Offer it now unto thy governor;
Will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts.
9 And now, I pray you, beseech God that he will be gracious unto us:
This hath been by your means:
Will he regard your persons? saith the LORD of hosts.
10 Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought?
Neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought.
I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts,
Neither will I accept an offering at your hand.
11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same
My name shall be great among the Gentiles;
And in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering:
For my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.
12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say,
The table of the LORD is polluted;
And the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.
13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it!
And ye have snuffed at it, saith the LORD of hosts;
And ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick;
Thus ye brought an offering:
Should I accept this of your hand? saith the LORD.
14 But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male,
And voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing:
For I am a great King, saith the LORD of hosts,
And my name is dreadful among the heathen.

the reason being

Edom's violence again Jacob (Israel)

Obadiah 10–14 (KJV 1900)

10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee,
And thou shalt be cut off for ever.
11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side,
In the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces,
And foreigners entered into his gates,
And cast lots upon Jerusalem,
Even thou wast as one of them.
12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger;
Neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction;
Neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity:
Yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity,
Nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;
14 Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape;
Neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.
 
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