Why do Evangelicals Always go to the Wrong Source:

[Bonnie]

So it's based on your fallible and ignorant experience, not based on actual facts. Thanks for the admission.

I don't know where they get the idea that our churches don't study the OT....we study it all the time in our church. We can see through our studies how the NT fulfills the OT. We can see the foreshadowing of events that would happen in the NT in our studies of the OT. Plus, all of our ministers must learn biblical Hebrew in the original alphabet. Why would they need to do that IF we don't study the OT?

I guess they think that, because we believe we are no longer under the LoM, but under the NEW and better covenant of grace in the blood of Jesus Christ. But the LDS church is a hypocrite, since they teach the OT law of tithing, but ignore the OTHER OT laws, like the kosher food laws; the laws of clean and unclean with menstruating women and women who have given birth; they mix fabrics when the OT LoM forbids it, and the myriad other laws in the OT LoM--why don't they follow those laws? Answer: because their church cannot make money off those laws as it can with its tithing law.

What hypocrisy.

 

[Janice Bower]

Chuckle, chuckle, oh my! No!

The church in the first century was a NT church--Oh, my! Have you forgotten that? Are we still under Law, or under the Gospel in the New and BETTER covenant of grace in the blood of Jesus Christ? Oh, my! Will you answer that question, or just divert as you usually try to do, chuckle....oh my!

Now, why have you not told me what parts of the OT we should be studying? OH MY????

Probably all of it since Mormons say Adam had the gospel and the priesthood.

 

[Richard7]

I don't know where they get the idea that our churches don't study the OT....we study it all the time in our church. We can see through out studies how the NT fulfills the OT. We can see the foreshadowing of events that would happen in the NT in our studies of the OT. Plus, all of our ministers must learn biblical Hebrew in the original alphabet. Why would they need to do that IF we don't study the OT?

I guess they think that because we believe we are no longer under the LoM, but under the NEW and better covenant of grace in the blood of Jesus Christ. But the LDS church is a hypocrite, since they teach the OT law of tithing, but ignore the OTHER OT laws, like the kosher food laws; the laws of clean and unclean with menstruating women and women who have given birth; they mix fabrics when the OT LoM forbids it, and the myriad other laws in the OT LoM--why don't they follow those laws? Answer: because their church cannot make money off those laws as it can with its tithing law.

What hypocrisy.

Chuckle, if you actually studied it then you would know that the NT could not survive without the OT..... and you also don't teach it because you lack any understanding of God Plan of Redemption... hmm!

 

[Richard7]

Joseph Smith who wrote your scriptures did not say that. Why do Mormons disagree? Is your church in a state of apostacy?

And Joseph Smith did say that Presbyterians are wrong. That's rather specific.


Wrong source.

Yes he did say they were wrong along with all other churches.... that does not make them evil, what is evil is the men in charge of your religions who betray Christ and change the meaning of the Bible to get gain for themselves... oh my!

 

[brotherofJared]

However, your church members tithe to support a man-made institution founded by a lying, scrying, womanizing false prophet--an institution that has been "teaching for doctrine the precepts of men" for many decades

Anti-mormon propaganda as if any of that makes one bit of difference. They build their arguments on opinion. You all are trying to hold water in a sieve.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been teaching the gospel according to the Bible. Any church that teaches anything other than what we teach is teaching some other gospel. Our critics limit the efficacy of the atonement. It doesn't really purify or cleanse. According to them, we will not be joint heirs with Christ ever. Some things, I guess, are impossible for God. He can make things out of nothing but he cannot purity and cleanse us such as it will be that we never sinned. They were as crimson, yet - according to them - there will be a tinge of color, not quite white as snow (that doesn't sound like it comes from the Bible). Further, they teach that no one actually has to keep the commandments, they just have to believe that someone else kept them in their stead so they won't be accountable. We have no accountability. All one must do is believe (unless you're a Mormon, then belief doesn't count).

The only truth that our critics teach that is actually found in the Bible is Jesus Christ and him crucified. But their salvational doctrines completely ignore the Bible's teachings. They have built their religion on the precepts of men (their own interpretations concocted entirely outside of the Holy Ghost's influence). They use a business model that shifts with the opinions of the people who are paying the preacher. Case in point, the rainbow church (I realize they have been disavowed by their mother church but consider that their mother church has also been disavowed the the church they reformed). All protestant churches are an offspring of a failed church.

A true preacher sent from God is NOT popular. They expose the sins of the people, not excuse them from any responsibility based solely on a word.

My recommendation for anyone looking for the true church of Jesus Christ is,
1. Does it have the authority to administer the gospel (baptize and administer the sacrament)
2. Does it teach accountability for one's own actions and that those actions have salvational consequences (if they do, then they teach works-based salvation) and
3. Do they teach repentance through the atonement of Jesus Christ and Him crucified?

Jesus Christ and Him crucified is the cornerstone, but our critics don't have the authority to administer the ordinances of the gospel. While they claim Jesus Christ and Him crucified, they don't teach his gospel. That is a hollow shell that looks good from the outside but hollowed, an empty shell. To further exacerbate the issue, they pretend that there is some other Jesus and that anyone who doesn't agree with their views of the Bible must be worshiping this other Jesus. There is only one Jesus. We simply disagree on what he taught and what we need to do to be saved.

We claim the authority to administer the Gospel through ancient prophets and apostles who personally delivered the keys to do so. John the Baptist restored the Aaronic Priesthood and later, Peter, James, and John restored the Melchizedek priesthood to mortal men. With those keys, the authority to administer the gospel was again in full force in the church and as in times of old, Christ's church is once again built on a foundation of apostles and prophets.

The Lord has set His hand to the harvest this last time. Ephraim is gathering Israel from the corners of the earth in preparation for the Lord Jesus Christ second coming as foretold in the scriptures, meanwhile, the religions of our critics are still trying to figure out how to keep bilking people out of their money promising salvation for a fee.

 

[Janice Bower]

Yes he did say they were wrong along with all other churches.... that does not make them evil, what is evil is the men in charge of your religions who betray Christ and change the meaning of the Bible to get gain for themselves... oh my!

Your scriptures say there is only one(1) church and all others are of Satan. You are extremely critical of Christians and Christianity. Now you try to persuade people that your scriptures and prophets didn't teach what they clearly taught. So the question arises that if someone is dishonest, is it your scriptures, your past leaders, or you?

I've studied Mormon sources for years and years. I read English which is my first language. I know what your leaders have taught. You are either an apostate and/or someone who makes a game of trying to pull the wool over peoples' eyes. Which is it?

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time.

Joseph Smith—History 1

Joseph Smith tells of his ancestry, family members, and their early abodes—An unusual excitement about religion prevails in western New York—He determines to seek wisdom as directed by James—The Father and the Son appear, and Joseph is called to his prophetic ministry. (Verses 1–20.)

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Mormons train their missionaries to baptize people who who have already been baptized or are attending other churches or perhaps haven't decided which church to attend, and all this is under the guise of bringing them to Christ. but they bring them to the Mormon church without Christ!

If Mormons regard those people as having Christ, why do they think or pretend they are bringing them to Christ? If following men, as Mormons teach those people have done, isn't evil, leave them alone! Joseph Smith said God forbade him to join any other church.

 

[Bonnie]

Chuckle, if you actually studied it then you would know that the NT could not survive without the OT..... and you also don't teach it because you lack any understanding of God Plan of Redemption... hmm!

That is a lot of fertilizer, Richard. We DO actually study it, every book in the OT. And how they relate to the NT; how the OT foreshadows the NT.

We know God's true plan of Redemption; it is all there in the Bible, prefigured in the OT and brought to full fruition in the NT in Jesus Christ, Who IS the Gospel--no phony Mormon priesthoods and lavishly, expensively decorated "temples" needed. Hmmmmm....

 

[Bonnie]

Your scriptures say there is only one(1) church and all others are of Satan. You are extremely critical of Christians and Christianity. Now you try to persuade people that your scriptures and prophets didn't teach what they clearly taught. So the question arises that if someone is dishonest, is it your scriptures, your past leaders, or you?

I've studied Mormon sources for years and years. I read English which is my first language. I know what your leaders have taught. You are either an apostate and/or someone who makes a game of trying to pull the wool over peoples' eyes. Which is it?

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time.

Joseph Smith—History 1

Joseph Smith tells of his ancestry, family members, and their early abodes—An unusual excitement about religion prevails in western New York—He determines to seek wisdom as directed by James—The Father and the Son appear, and Joseph is called to his prophetic ministry. (Verses 1–20.)

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Mormons train their missionaries to baptize people who who have already been baptized or are attending other churches or perhaps haven't decided which church to attend, and all this is under the guise of bringing them to Christ. but they bring them to the Mormon church without Christ!

If Mormons regard those people as having Christ, why do they think or pretend they are bringing them to Christ? If following men, as Mormons teach those people have done, isn't evil, leave them alone! Joseph Smith said God forbade him to join any other church.

And yet, Smith tried to join the Methodist church later on...didn't he?

We both quoted the BoM and you quoted Smith himself--how could these be "wrong" sources? These should be the most RIGHT sources we could use!

 

[brotherofJared]

Your scriptures say there is only one(1) church

No they don't. That obviously wrong as there are thousands of churches. We recognize them. There can be only one true church of Jesus Christ. The rest, regardless of whether they are churches or organizations or governments, they can't all be the true church of Jesus Christ. That is logically false. They can all be false, but there can be only one true church. Your argument is moot.

all others are of Satan.

If they don't teach saving truths but claim they have the way to salvation, that is deception.

You are extremely critical of Christians and Christianity.

That is false. We are critical of your false teachings, but your efforts to do good and to teach people to have a moral compass pointed towards God is honored and respected. In fact, we donate millions to your churches' causes for that very reason.

We accept the dictionary definition of Christian without judgment. Any who claim to follow the teachings of Christ is a Christian. Our church has never disputed the idea that Christian churches or Christians are somehow not Christian. You may be wrong about the teachings of Christ, but you will have to judge that for yourselves.

I've studied Mormon sources for years and years.

So? That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks (I think). You might claim to have memorized everything any Latter day saint leader has ever said, but that doesn't mean you understand it. Clearly, on many points you don't. I'm sure you're not completely ignorant, but you are wrong much of the time.

 

[brotherofJared]

You are either an apostate

LOL. No. You are the apostate, let's be clear about that. That alone clearly disqualified you from interpreting what the leaders have taught.

I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong

Clearly you are twisting Richards words. He said they are not evil. His point is that being wrong does not necessarily mean that they are evil. Our critic has asserted her own personal interpretation and created a belief we don't have.

 

[brotherofJared]

why do [Mormons] think or pretend they are bringing them to Christ?

If following men, as Mormons teach those people have done, isn't evil

Because no one but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the authority to baptize. Without it, they cannot enter the kingdom of God. That means that they cannot be saved without it.

It has nothing to do with good or evil. "They, the churches, are all wrong.." No one is talking about evil but you.

 

[Magdalena]

Because no one but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the authority to baptize. Without it, they cannot enter the kingdom of God. That means that they cannot be saved without it.

It has nothing to do with good or evil. "They, the churches, are all wrong.." No one is talking about evil but you.

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young did.

 

[Bonnie]

Because no one but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the authority to baptize.

Enough baloney to stock TWO delis!

Without it, they cannot enter the kingdom of God. That means that they cannot be saved without it.

THREE delis worth! Jesus saves--not your church or membership in your church! And certainly not baptism by your phony priests!

It has nothing to do with good or evil. "They, the churches, are all wrong.." No one is talking about evil but you.

IF all churches are wrong and "of the devil" then that makes them evil--doesn't it?

 

[Bonnie]

LOL. No. You are the apostate, let's be clear about that. That alone clearly disqualified you from interpreting what the leaders have taught.

Nonsense. The Holy Spirit removed the Mormon "veil" from her eyes, by grace through faith in the true Jesus Christ of the Bible. So now she can TRULY "see".

Clearly you are twisting Richards words. He said they are not evil. His point is that being wrong does not necessarily mean that they are evil. Our critic has asserted her own personal interpretation and created a belief we don't have.

So, being the church of the devil doesn't make them evil--just wrong?

 

[Theo1689]

I don't know where they get the idea that our churches don't study the OT....we study it all the time in our church. We can see through out studies how the NT fulfills the OT. We can see the foreshadowing of events that would happen in the NT in our studies of the OT. Plus, all of our ministers must learn biblical Hebrew in the original alphabet. Why would they need to do that IF we don't study the OT?

I guess they think that because we believe we are no longer under the LoM, but under the NEW and better covenant of grace in the blood of Jesus Christ. But the LDS church is a hypocrite, since they teach the OT law of tithing, but ignore the OTHER OT laws, like the kosher food laws; the laws of clean and unclean with menstruating women and women who have given birth; they mix fabrics when the OT LoM forbids it, and the myriad other laws in the OT LoM--why don't they follow those laws? Answer: because their church cannot make money off those laws as it can with its tithing law.

What hypocrisy.

Mormons don't care about the truth.
They think it's perfectly okay to lie about Christians.
They feel it necessary to discredit Christians, because they can't defend their false and antiBiblical beliefs.

 

[Bonnie]

Anti-mormon propaganda as if any of that makes one bit of difference. They build their arguments on opinion. You all are trying to hold water in a sieve.

No, it isn't. Smith was a glass looker (scrying) and he was a liar, and he did make false prophesies in God's name.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been teaching the gospel according to the Bible.

Absolutely false! Show us FROM THE BIBLE where Jesus or the Apostles COMMANDED the building of expensive, lavishly decorated temples and where they commanded viewing perversions of the Creation and Fall into sin stories from Genesis; taught the WoW; taught that Father, Son, and the HS are three separate Gods; taught that God the Father was once "a man on an earth" who had to learn how to become a god (As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become"); that Jesus and Satan are actual brothers in the supposed pre-mortal existence; the three levels of heaven and who goes where after death--show us these things IN THE BIBLE. IF you want us to believe that the LDS has been "teaching the gospel according to the Bible."

Any church that teaches anything other than what we teach is teaching some other gospel.

See above. This is absolutely false. It is YOUR Gospel that is "no gospel at all" since it is NOT the Gospel handed down by Paul and the other true saints of the first century church. Therefore, those that preach and teach your false gospel are "anathema!" Cursed by God!

Our critics limit the efficacy of the atonement. It doesn't really purify or cleanse. According to them, we will not be joint heirs with Christ ever. Some things, I guess, are impossible for God. He can make things out of nothing but he cannot purity and cleanse us such as it will be that we never sinned.

Boy, are YOU way off in left field here! God cleanses us of sin by faith in Jesus Christ! Which is what Peter told the council in Acts 15! It is what John says in 1 John 1--"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God, Who is faithful and just, will forgive us our sins and cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness."

We will always still have the old Adam in us, even after becoming a new creation in Christ Jesus our Lord. But the old Adam no longer controls us. But when we die and go to heaven, then will we be made totally clean, never to sin again. Honestly, boJ, this is Christianity 101!

They were as crimson, yet - according to them - there will be a tinge of color, not quite white as snow (that doesn't sound like it comes from the Bible).

See above.

Further, they teach that no one actually has to keep the commandments, they just have to believe that someone else kept them in their stead so they won't be accountable.

False. We do indeed need to keep the commandments, but because we are, by nature, children of wrath and NOT children of God, we cannot keep the commandments perfectly on our own, no matter how hard we try. But there is one who has NOT sinned, who is enthroned in the heavens, who came to earth in humble, human vesture, and did what we can never do--keep the Law perfectly in thought, word, and deed; both the letter and the spirit of the Law. And when we put our faith in Jesus Christ, humbly confessing our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. God's righteousness is then imputed to us through this faith in His Son. This is grace--God's undeserved favor--on account of Jesus Christ.

We have no accountability. All one must do is believe (unless you're a Mormon, then belief doesn't count).

Again, false. We are accountable to each other and to God. But when we become a new creation in Jesus Christ, we no longer want to live a life of sin but of righteousness.

But tell us, can YOU or any other Mormon keep the commandments perfectly, 24/7, 365, never once sinning, ever, until death? Yes or no? If not, then perhaps you should follow the advice, "Physician, heal thyself!"

The only truth that our critics teach that is actually found in the Bible is Jesus Christ and him crucified. But their salvational doctrines completely ignore the Bible's teachings.

False. It is Mormonism that does that. It is salvation by grace through faith in a false Savior, Satan's brother, AFTER all that one can do; only then does grace kick in. Oh, and in Mormonism, grace is just defined as the ability to do something--NOT as God's undeserved favor/love towards us because of our faith in His Son.

 

[Bonnie]

They have built their religion on the precepts of men (their own interpretations concocted entirely outside of the Holy Ghost's influence).

Utterly false. Show us where the HS told anyone in the NT that polygamy was necessary for salvation. After all, you said your church follows the Bible. And where in the Bible does it say it is hunky dory for a woman to have 2 husbands? Where in the D and C 132 did God authorize Smith to marry other men's wives?

They use a business model that shifts with the opinions of the people who are paying the preacher.

Hah! It is the LDS that is a "business model," owning numerous businesses, like cattle ranches and a theme part, not to mention, property all over the place and a very expensive--around $2 billion mall whose sole purpose is to make money for the LD$ church!

Case in point, the rainbow church (I realize they have been disavowed by their mother church but consider that their mother church has also been disavowed the the church they reformed). All protestant churches are an offspring of a failed church.

Nonsense. I guess the Community of Christ (formerly Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints) is an "offspring of a failed church" eh? Here is a list of many of the offshoots of your church, some of which are defunct and some are still around:

List of denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A true preacher sent from God is NOT popular. They expose the sins of the people, not excuse them from any responsibility based solely on a word.

So, why didn't anyone expose Smith's sins:

1. Marry many other women and girls, two as young as 14, and even other men's wives--and some were for time as well as eternity.
2. Hypocrisy--preaching the WoW, while not following it himself, since he often smoked and drank
3. Lying through his teeth--like claiming he was innocent as a newborn babe, or something similar, when he was accused of having 7 wives, "When I could only find one"? And this was right before he was murdered. What did he do with his other 30 + wives--play hide and seek with them and lose them?
4. Did anyone expose Young's sins--like rampant polygamy, which often led him to reject wives not in favor with him, by keeping them in abject poverty?
5. What about the lies John Taylor told in Europe, when he denied to his listeners that the LDS practiced polygamy? Then when some made it to Utah, they found out he had lied to them?

My recommendation for anyone looking for the true church of Jesus Christ is,
1. Does it have the authority to administer the gospel (baptize and administer the sacrament)

All Christians mature in the faith can do so. In most Christian churches, that is the pastor and elders. That is biblical. That is part of the true church. Phony Aaronic and Melchizedek priests are NOT.

2. Does it teach accountability for one's own actions and that those actions have salvational consequences (if they do, then they teach works-based salvation) and
3. Do they teach repentance through the atonement of Jesus Christ and Him crucified?

We are accountable for our own actions--I don't know of any true Christian church that teaches otherwise--and there can be both earthly consequences for them as well as spiritual ones. But we also teach and preach repentance for our sins and that there is forgiveness of sins with Jesus Christ. The man convicted of murder in the second degree that my husband was chaplain to for over 5 years had to face the earthly consequences for his sins--death by injection--but not the spiritual one, since he had confessed his sins, and turned to Jesus Christ in faith. In fact, he died declaring his faith. He is now with His dear Lord Jesus in heaven.

Jesus Christ and Him crucified is the cornerstone, but our critics don't have the authority to administer the ordinances of the gospel.

This statement is a bald-faced lie--no, not calling you a liar, boJ, just that this statement is just so not true. ALL believers are a royal priesthood to God the Father, with Jesus Christ as our great and only High Priest. And according to Rev. 1:6, it is JESUS CHRIST who has made us priests! So, we have HIS authority. Your church just gives itself authority, which is does not have, since it preaches another gospel and another Christ and is therefore, anathema.

 

[Bonnie]

But it is Jesus Christ who is the cornerstone and foundation and Paul writes this:

"For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ." (1 Cor. 3:11)

So your prophets and apostles cannot be part of the foundation because the foundation has ALREADY BEEN LAID--Jesus Christ.

 

[brotherofJared]

Enough baloney to stock TWO delis!

You're welcome to your opinion. But your claim to authority is entirely man made. You all just picked up the baton one day and decided for yourselves that you can do it without God.

It's so sad, in fact, that many of you have taken it upon yourselves to flat out ignore baptism altogether.

THREE delis worth! Jesus saves--not your church or membership in your church! And certainly not baptism by your phony priests!

I certainly agree that phoney priests have no authority. That's why all of your churches are wrong. They are filled with phoney priests. See? Anyone can claim the other guy has phoney priests.

You completely ignore the argument with your smoke and mirrors. Sometimes I think you all forget what the argument is. The point being made is that no one said that all other churches are evil. They are wrong and misleading. They are man made constructs designed to deceive mankind. That they teach false doctrines, makes them tools of the devil even though they may be well meaning. The point of fact is, none of the man-made churches that exist today can administer the saving ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That condition has existed since the early church apostatized around 70AD.

None of you have the authority to baptize, not one. Without that, no one can enter the kingdom of God. That's what the scripture say. Jesus' own words.

 

[brotherofJared]

Nonsense

Correct. She called me the apostate. That is complete nonsense. We don't believe the tripe you guys keep claiming we believe. Period. Your ideas are complete nonsense as well. We have never taught, for example, that Adam is our God. Never. You can pull up exact quotes that say that and still, you have no idea what you're talking about because you don't know our doctrine.

I've explained to you what we do believe. It's clear that you don't care. You all would rather parrot nonsense. That's your choice, but we don't have to accept it and we certainly don't have to defend things we don't believe.

How convenient it is that when ever a critic of our religion disagrees with what we actually believe and just call me an apostate and the argument is won. Sorry, if you're wrong about what we believe, then you are wrong. Calling me names isn't going to fix it. The audacity of an apostate calling a member of the church and apostate. That's so ridiculous it belongs in an example book of ridiculous things not to say.

The Holy Spirit removed the Mormon "veil" from her eyes, by grace through faith in the true Jesus Christ of the Bible

😂. You guys are the blind leading the blind.

So now she can TRULY "see".

Not.

So, being the church of the devil doesn't make them evil--just wrong?

Sure. It all depends on whether you know you're doing it on purpose or not. If you don't know, then your just wrong. But if you know your keeping people from the actual saving ordinance or that your are teaching false doctrine, then it's evil. Whether you know what your doing or not is not up to us to decide.

It doesn't matter if you know what your doing or not. The result is the same. You can be deceived by the devil and not be evil.