CharismaticLady
Well-known member
So what does that mean to you? If Jesus died for our sin, does that mean He died for the sins we keep on committing? That is not the full gospel.
Why do SDA’s reject the words of the Bible?
- Thread starter Christian SDA
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So what does that mean to you? If Jesus died for our sin, does that mean He died for the sins we keep on committing? That is not the full gospel.
Icyspark
Active member
Hi CharismaticLady,
Let's try to stay focussed on one thing at a time. I answered your question about the gospel with a succinct Bible reference. If you want to know more about the gospel I'd suggest four books: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Collectively they're called the Gospels.
That said I'm feeling like you're trying to segue away from the topic of what a covenant is and your strange contention that "Love is not in the Ten Commandments." You need to acknowledge when your opinions have been overruled by Scripture such that you are not continuing down a path which implicates God as giving laws which are anything other than motivated from pure, righteous and holy love.
Why don't you try praying about what I'm saying. Ask God to give you wisdom about whether He gave laws which could not be kept and if it was because He made a faulty law that caused the covenant/agreement to become obsolete. I think you already know the answer, but pray about it anyway.
God bless.
CharismaticLady
Well-known member
I'll answer tomorrow. Good night, friend!
SDA mixes grace with law, and as such, hold to and teach another and a false Gospel!
Icyspark
Active member
Must one observe the sabbath to be saved?
Icyspark
Active member
CharismaticLady
Well-known member
Okay, one thing at a time...
Oh, I know what the gospel is, and I know it is so much more than knowing who Jesus is, don't you know that? 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 is merely facts about Jesus. And you think that is enough? That is certainly where we start, for no one who rejects this knowledge can be saved. But what next? How do we become born again? They are the saved. But what is so peculiar about the born again than those who just have knowledge of who Jesus is?
CharismaticLady
Well-known member
1 John 3:4
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
Romans 8:8
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Roman 8:8 is the cause of Romans 7:19-21.
Icyspark, a "covenant" is like a will and testament. It is in effect until a new will and testament is written and it comes into effect upon the death of the testator, making the first will and testament null and void. We are the heirs of the New Covenant which has far greater promises than the Old Covenant.
You cannot understand that the Ten Commandments was the Covenant which Jesus was heir to and fulfilled. "It is finished." Those under the Old Covenant, plus those who belonged to God before the Law had their resurrection from the dead at the same time Jesus rose, and were even seen walking around Jerusalem. They are not still here, nor did they go back to the grace. They went to heaven when Jesus did. Now 10 days later, the New Will and Testament was read and the Covenant of the Spirit came down upon the people on the Day of Pentecost.
It is only strange to you because you haven't received the New Covenant, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, so you live under the Old Covenant still and just add knowledge of who Jesus is. Don't you know that those who lived successfully and died under the Old Covenant are already gone from the earth? They only had to keep the letter of the law which was easy. But the law made no man righteous.
So what if there are people who accept 9 out of 10 of the commandments? Ignorance doesn't validate the Ten Commandments as being in effect EXCEPT for those who have never come under the New Covenant of the Spirit:
1 Timothy 1:9
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.
Icy, the New Covenant makes us truly righteous, and those who walk in the Spirit are not under the Law. We keep the Spirit of the Sabbath, not the letter of the Old Covenant. They didn't know the promise, Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus Christ. We abide in Him, and He in us and our rest is in Him. The letter of the law which kills is the Sabbath DAY. The Spirit of Christ in us is the true Sabbath rest of the Spirit.
Galatians 3:19-25
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
CharismaticLady
Well-known member
You forget that the laws of Loving God with all our spirit, soul and body and loving our neighbor as ourselves, which the Ten Commandment was a mere shadow of, are written on our heart. The sign of the Old Covenant, the Sabbath day, Deut. 31:13, was in effect only until a NEW SIGN of a New Covenant took its place based on the blood of Jesus - the Cup of the New Covenant. 1 Corinthians 11:25.
Icyspark
Active member
Hi CharismaticLady,
I feel that you are building to a punchline. Would you like to just come right out and say it? Are you building up to say that you are sinless?
CharismaticLady
Well-known member
What does the Word say? Should we say that, or not?
I've written more in that post I hope you will respond to, brother. Good night.
Icyspark
Active member
Hi CharismaticLady,
You indeed wrote more. However if you are claiming you are sinless then that informs how I should respond to the rest of what you wrote.
I believe that Jesus and a number of New Testament writers admonish believers to "stop sinning." You acknowledged that 1 John 3:4 says that sin is lawlessness (or as other another translation puts it, "sin is the transgression of the law."). The Bible also says, "Where there is no law there is no sin." So what law should we look to to identify sin? Paul said this:
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
While you wish to disavow the Ten Commandments, Paul very clearly points out that the Ten Commandments are what he used to identify what sin is. Unless of course you wish to claim that it is only coveting that is a sin? But then you'll need to take that up with James (see below).
James also refers to the Ten Commandments in the affirmative in relation to the identification of sin. He writes:
James 2:9-11
But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
You cannot be "sinless" if you are transgressing one of the commandments which identifies sin. James and Paul don't need to itemize all ten of the Ten Commandments in order for their audience to know from what set they are quoting. In these two text references we see that three of the Ten Commandments are used to illustrate that the law is still seen in a positive light.
So no, I don't accept the premise that you are sinless based on the fact that your spirit guide causes you to forget the one law which God COMMANDED should be remembered. Even if you're keeping the whole law but stumbling on the issue of keeping the Sabbath holy then James says you're "guilty of breaking all of it ... you have become a lawbreaker."
I pray this helps.
CharismaticLady
Well-known member
I agree that Paul was referring the the Ten Commandments in Romans 7, and not just coveting (you're hilarious! LOL) but you missed his point didn't you? Why couldn't the Jews keep the Ten Commandments. Let's start there. Romans 7:15 "For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do." Why? Answer that question and then you will know what Jesus came to accomplish, even though you scoff at the gospel. Don't deny it. you do everytime you scoff at freedom from sin. You are thinking like a natural man, not realizing that God is supernatural.
It is funny that all who stress the Ten Commandments miss what came after the Law. Why didn't you keep reading??? What does verse 12 say? Jesus is what came after the law and what He accomplished.
We have been freed from the law; not because it was bad, but because we couldn't keep it. Christ came to free us from the REASON for the Law. Freedom from the sin nature inherited because of Adam's sin is Liberty!
Romans 6:6-7
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. That is why Jesus said, we MUST be born again.
My friend, the New Covenant is a completely different concept than the Old Covenant. It is supernatural because it is all Spirit.
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CharismaticLady
Well-known member
CharismaticLady
Well-known member
Personally, I believe "the rest" IS valid. For instance, Even as a Christian I can't marry my brother, or my father's brother, nor homosexual or beatiology. And even Galatians 5:19-21 tells we cannot commit sorcery, so that was still valid. It is only the covenant and things that were foreshadows of Jesus that were abolished. And "signs" of covenants that Jesus fulfilled, such as the Abrahamic covenant sign, circumcision, and the sign of the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath day that can only be achieved by the letter of the law. Also what God later says is no longer a sin to do such as eating unclean meat, which represented the Gentiles when God was allowing the Spirit to fall on them also. That law went back to God's instructions to Noah in Genesis 9, and seen again to 1 Timothy 4. The covenant was the Ten Commandments. It is still valid for sinners, but those abiding in the New Covenant of the Spirit and are walking in the Spirit are not under that law. The Spirit goes far deeper than the Ten Commandments as taught by Jesus in Matthew 5. Hating is wrong and so is lusting after the spouse of another. The Ten Commandments didn't touch on sins of the mind and heart, only physical actions.
But all throughout the era of the Law, the eternal law was mentioned that the letter of the Ten Commandments didn't touch. The eternal law of God that the New Covenant does fulfill is Loving God with all our spirit, soul and body, and loving our neighbor. See 1 John 3:23 and see how it mirrors God's eternal law.
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
There is another verse that Adventists and Messianics are unaware of it meaning, and that is John 15:10, showing there is a difference between the laws of the Father, and the laws of Jesus.
"10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love." They use reason to say that the finger that wrote the Ten Commandments was that of Jesus as a theophany (which is true), therefore, the commandments of Jesus ARE the same as the commandments of the Father. But that is NOT what John meant in writing that verse. The Ten Commandments says nothing about believing in the Son of God which is crucial to salvation. Therefore, just keeping the Ten Commandments can't make anyone righteous. They are NOT enough. But the commandments of Jesus 1 John 3:23-24 are!
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Saved by the grace of God, as its the working of the Holy Spirit to convict us as lost sinners, and to enable us to receive Jesus as Lord thru the gift of saving faith
The new Covenant replaced and rendered obsolete the Old One!
We are now under the law of Christ