Why do SDA’s teach that the Covenant

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ga 4:24-26 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Why do SDA’s teach that “the Covenant from Sinai” is still in force?
Which “the Covenant from Sinai” are you referring to ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Because they haven’t actually read the Mosaic covenant, and they think they are Jews.
They also think God is bound by these Laws too…..
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Because they haven’t actually read the Mosaic covenant, and they think they are Jews.
They also think God is bound by these Laws too…..
AV Ga 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Only if you are in Christ, then believing Paul is a problem in faith for you ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
AV Ga 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Only if you are in Christ, then believing Paul is a problem in faith for you ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Then if you are of Abraham, who didn’t have the mosaic covenant why are you keeeping it.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Lk 13:28-29 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and [from] the west, and from the north, and [from] the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

AV Jn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.

So Jesus is a liar of context now ???
Then if you are of Abraham, who didn’t have the mosaic covenant why are you keeeping it.
AV Gn 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Your opinion evidence is shockingly poor to GOD's own testimony, and in "my holy day".

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Prologue:
AV Lk 13:28-29 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and [from] the west, and from the north, and [from] the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

AV Jn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.

So Jesus is a liar of context now ???

AV Gn 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Your opinion evidence is shockingly poor to GOD's own testimony, and in "my holy day".

Yours in Christ, Michael
Then explain Galatians 3:16,17
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and his seed, He does not say ‘and to seeds’ as referring to many, but rather than to one, and to your seed. That is Christ.
What I am saying is this, the Law which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.

So the Law (mosaic covenant) was given 430 after Abraham, so how could have Abraham kept the mosaic law when he was dead?
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Then explain Galatians 3:16,17
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and his seed, He does not say ‘and to seeds’ as referring to many, but rather than to one, and to your seed. That is Christ.
What I am saying is this, the Law which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.

So the Law (mosaic covenant) was given 430 after Abraham, so how could have Abraham kept the mosaic law when he was dead?
AV Ga 3:16-17 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

So the covenant was confirmed in Christ, so you have evidence kept sabbath on sunday in Bible scriptures then ???

The change of covenant was NOT to change the definition of sin, but it's remedy of it.

Keep your eyes on Jesus, and not look away to the works of men.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
So the Law (mosaic covenant) was given 430 after Abraham, so how could have Abraham kept the mosaic law when he was dead?
AV Gn 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

You going to tell me that, you do not know what applied to Abraham and what did not, per GOD's testimony ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
Prologue:
AV Ga 4:24-26 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Which “the Covenant from Sinai” are you referring to ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

There is only one Covenant ratified at Sinai. That is the one referenced in Exodus 24:1-8, Exodus 34:27-28, Deuteronomy 4:13, Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:18-20, Hebrews 10:9 and Galatians 4.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
You are conflating Genesis 26:5 with the Mosaic Covenant.
AV Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

AV 1Jn 3:4-9 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Are you confused with what Jesus' righteousness is ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
There is only one Covenant ratified at Sinai. That is the one referenced in Exodus 24:1-8, Exodus 34:27-28, Deuteronomy 4:13, Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:18-20, Hebrews 10:9 and Galatians 4.
AV Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;

You are not aware of how Paul views these ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
AV Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

AV 1Jn 3:4-9 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Are you confused with what Jesus' righteousness is ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
You subtracted from that verse in Matthew 5:17,

it says,
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to abolish but to fulfil.

The Law and the Prophets are the whole of the Old Testament, which is true He didn’t abolish but fulfilled when He died on the cross.

But please note verse 19,
Whoever annuls one of the least of these commandments (mosaic covenant) and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
and note verse 20 to go with this,
For I say to you, that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

So Michael does your righteousness surpass that of the scribes and Pharisee, do you keep the whole Law including all the ordinances, the sacrifices, feasts etc? Because it’s clear in verse 20 if you don’t you won’t enter the kingdom of heaven.

Again, look at verse 19, does someone who annuls one of these commandments and teaches others to do so lose their salvation? Look again, they will be called least in the Kingdom of heaven, but those who keep and teach others to do the whole law just like those in verse 20 will called the greatest. Will you pass that test Michael? Do you keep the sabbath as per the Bible, not SDA rule?

Do you suggest that you keep the Ten Commandments and therefore doesn’t sin?
 

Common Tater

Active member
AV Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

AV 1Jn 3:4-9 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Are you confused with what Jesus' righteousness is ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
No, I am not. Matthew 5:17 says "law, or the prophets". It is referring to the entire Hebrew Bible, what we call the Old Testament. Adventists seem to think that Matthew 5:17 only refers to the Ten Commandments. No, they are woefully wrong. At the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah appear, again representing the Law and the Prophets, the Old Covenant. God the Father does not say "Hey, you are under all three", rather He says "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”

Galatians 3 plainly states that no one is justified by the law. Romans 3 tells us the same thing. If the law could justify you, you would have no need for a savior, and that goes against the purpose of the law in the first place. It is to show people their need for a Savior. Their righteousness is a gracious gift that they claim by faith. You continue to try and put yourself under a covenant you were not a party to, and it is a conditional covenant to boot. If you stray from that covenant, God withdraws His blessings. Better to put yourself under the New Covenant.

I'm not confused with Jesus' righteousness. It is what I claim as my own through faith. You, on the other hand, seem to be confused about it. You seem to think that you must somehow make your own righteousness the same as our Lord's. You will never get there. Never.
 
Prologue:
AV Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

AV Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;

You are not aware of how Paul views these ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Sticking to the topic, there is only one covenant that was ratified at Mountain Sinai.

that was the view of the apostle Paul.
 

Common Tater

Active member
AV Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

AV 1Jn 3:4-9 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Are you confused with what Jesus' righteousness is ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
No, I'm not confused with Jesus' righteousness, nor why it matters.

Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Galatians 4:1-5 NASB

However, I'm quite sure that you are confused.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Posters

The only "covenant" that changed was
as Paul says
Galatians 4:1
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child,
differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world
:​

Bondage to all these tutors and governors

4 But when the fulness of the time was come,
God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To
redeem (us) them that were under the law,
that we might receive the adoption of sons
.​

To redeem (us) them that were under the law,
and in Bondage to all these tutors and governors
they asked for way back in Exodus

Ex.20:19
And they said unto Moses,
Speak thou with us, and we will hear:
but let not God speak with us, lest we die.


Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law,
do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written,
that Abraham had two sons,
the one by a bondmaid, (Hagar)
the other by a freewoman. (Sarah)

23 But he (Ishmael) who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh;
but he (Issiac) of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory:
for these are the two covenants;
the one from the mount Sinai,
which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia,
and answereth to Jerusalem which now is,
and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free,
which is the mother of us all.​

Paul is not speaking of the Commandments of God
But all the things added by all
"hand writtings of Ordnances" by those tutors and governors

the RCC is a prime example of such
 

Common Tater

Active member
Posters

The only "covenant" that changed was
as Paul says
Galatians 4:1
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child,
differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world
:​

Bondage to all these tutors and governors

4 But when the fulness of the time was come,
God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To
redeem (us) them that were under the law,
that we might receive the adoption of sons
.​

To redeem (us) them that were under the law,
and in Bondage to all these tutors and governors
they asked for way back in Exodus

Ex.20:19
And they said unto Moses,
Speak thou with us, and we will hear:
but let not God speak with us, lest we die.


Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law,
do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written,
that Abraham had two sons,
the one by a bondmaid, (Hagar)
the other by a freewoman. (Sarah)

23 But he (Ishmael) who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh;
but he (Issiac) of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory:
for these are the two covenants;
the one from the mount Sinai,
which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia,
and answereth to Jerusalem which now is,
and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free,
which is the mother of us all.​

Paul is not speaking of the Commandments of God
But all the things added by all
"hand writtings of Ordnances" by those tutors and governors

the RCC is a prime example of such
I don't think the Mosaic Covenant was changed, I think it ran its course and expired. Let's compare it to a ball player's 5-year contract. At the end of the fove years, it expires and is not binding for the next season. A new contract is negotiated. That new contract may have parts that are virtually identical to the old, but the old is still obsolete and non-binding. It is still there, it has not been destroyed, it has been fulfilled.
 
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