Why Does Anyone Believe Foolishness?

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TomFL

Guest
.

Takie time and read the book The Potters Freedom which deals with this very thing. One of the biggest anti-Calvinists, the late Norman Geisler is shown to never use Scripture in context in his belligerency against Calvinism.

Ever.

Here are a couple of links concerning The Potters Freedom. One is a free .pdf download.




You must have never read the book

otherwise you would not make so outlandish a statement
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Jn 3:3 shows the Paul taught what Jesus did. 1 Cor 2 14 is saying the same thing The natural man isnt in the spiritual kingdom of God because hes not spiritual. You have to be spiritually in the kingdom to understand spiritual things like its Gospel. Matt 13

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Lk 8 10


And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Mk 4 10-12

And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

The word without exō a adverb means:

out of doors, one who does not belong

So they dont understand, and God has not given them the ability to understand. Its hid from them Matt 11 25

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
In Matthew 11:25-30, the ones called to come to Christ, burdened with sin are none other than those to whom the Father and the Son reveal themselves.

This is the contextual understanding that must be implemented when trying to understand 11:28-30, and it shows what Christ's call in the passage really means.

And that isn't every single person who has ever lived as the passage is clear; some are never given this revelation of the Father and Son.

Some are so afraid, and afraid of this truth they fight it daily.
 

JDS

Well-known member
Nicodemus repeats his question

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
This is true. This is the third question and Jesus takes 12 verses to answer it in detail. This is how important it is. Now one should get this wrong.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

The last three verses tells us why some men will come to Christ and why some men will not. Jesus knows. It is not because one is elected and one is not elected. It is not anything that has to do with God. It is all about the deeds of men. Jesus says those who loved evil deeds will not come to the light. Why? If they do, their deeds will be reproved and they love them and do not want to repent of them. Those who do come to the light are doing truth and his deeds are ordered by God.

No one would have come to gaze on the serpent on the pole unless they knew they had been bitten by a fiery serpent and were going to die because of it. God put the brass serpent on the pole because of his mercy and he miraculously healed the lookers who obeyed his prophet who told them to look. This is the "obedience of faith," and it demonstrates how faith cometh by hearing the word of God.

The gospel of God to the world.

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

1 Thess 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Jn 3:3 shows the Paul taught what Jesus did. 1 Cor 2 14 is saying the same thing The natural man isnt in the spiritual kingdom of God because hes not spiritual. You have to be spiritually in the kingdom to understand spiritual things like its Gospel. Matt 13

sorry no Jesus teaches a man is born again through faith in the uplifted Christ
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
The last three verses tells us why some men will come to Christ and why some men will not. Jesus knows. It is not because one is elected and one is not elected. It is not anything that has to do with God. It is all about the deeds of men.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is humanistic theology of the Hall of Shame level.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Thats a jesus of your own making, another jesus
Sorry that is scripture

John 3:14–16 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry that is scripture

John 3:14–16 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
You talking about another jesus.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
You talking about another jesus.
The Jesus of the bible

Apparently he is not your Jesus

John 3:14–16 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The Jesus of the bible

Apparently he is not your Jesus

John 3:14–16 —KJV
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Nope, you teach another jesus. and Paul taught what Jesus did. 1 Cor 2 14 is saying the same thing The natural man isn't in the spiritual kingdom of God because hes not spiritual. You have to be spiritually in the kingdom to understand spiritual things like its Gospel.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
It is an unfortunate truth: @TomFL takes all passages of Scripture out of context then projects this on others.

But this is a well-known fact; anti-Calvinists always do this.

Takie time and read the book The Potters Freedom which deals with this very thing. One of the biggest anti-Calvinists, the late Norman Geisler is shown to never use Scripture in context in his belligerency against Calvinism.

Ever.

Here are a couple of links concerning The Potters Freedom. One is a free .pdf download.


Thank you for these links!
 
T

TomFL

Guest
It is an unfortunate truth: @TomFL takes all passages of Scripture out of context then projects this on others.

But this is a well-known fact; anti-Calvinists always do this.

funny but you never prove that and it appears we have seen a number of out of context claims from you
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
All anyone can ask is that you believe the words that are written. That's it. Do you see different words in the text than I do?
You said it has nothing to do with God and not about one being elected and one not being elected. If God hasn’t elected anyone at all, then MILLIONS, probably BILLIONS, will be there that He never chose. You said it’s all about the deeds of men.

Pelagius would be so proud...
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
All anyone can ask is that you believe the words that are written. That's it.

That's simply false, of course.

You CLAIM that all you want us to do is believe Scripture.

But you don't want that.
You want us to agree with YOUR theology.

Do you see different words in the text than I do?

Millions of people see "Calvinism" in the text of the Bible.
YOU claim you don't.

Do YOU "see different words in the text than [we] do?"

That's why discussion is a colossal waste of time with you.

Goodbye.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Nope, you teach another jesus. and Paul taught what Jesus did. 1 Cor 2 14 is saying the same thing The natural man isn't in the spiritual kingdom of God because hes not spiritual. You have to be spiritually in the kingdom to understand spiritual things like its Gospel.
Scripture shows your claim is false

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

1 Peter 1:21–25 (KJV 1900)

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Man is regenerated through faith in the Gospel

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 1:16 (KJV 1900)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV 1900)

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



2) The bible reveals man’s problem is not that he does not understand the gospel but that he refuses to believe

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (KJV 1900)

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Romans 11:19–23 (KJV 1900)

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

John 5:39 —KJV

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”

Psa. 119:105 —KJV

“¶ NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.”



Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900)

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3) Warnings about hardening your heart make no sense if the gospel cannot be understood

Hebrews 3:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,



Hebrews 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.



Hebrews 4:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.



4) If man cannot understand the gospel why would God blind men so they could not believe

John 12:40 (KJV 1900)

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Or speaks to men in parables so they would not understand

Mark 4:11–12 (KJV 1900)

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Why would the devil blind anyone

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ

but you will not deal with just as other have not dealt with it
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
It it just because I’m a Calvinist???
Or is it because you can’t answer the OP?
I thought it was a Arminianism & Calvinism thread but the Calvinists do seem to be the only ones that know what they're talking about, that actually makes sense. But then that foolishness thing your talking about kicks in and we get to hear from the other side. I guess that's life in the big city.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
I thought it was a Arminianism & Calvinism thread but the Calvinists do seem to be the only ones that know what they're talking about, that actually makes sense. But then that foolishness thing your talking about kicks in and we get to hear from the other side. I guess that's life in the big city.
You are a Calvinists No ?

Do you believe the gospel is not understandable ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Scripture shows your claim is false

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

1 Peter 1:21–25 (KJV 1900)

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Man is regenerated through faith in the Gospel

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 1:16 (KJV 1900)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV 1900)

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



2) The bible reveals man’s problem is not that he does not understand the gospel but that he refuses to believe

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (KJV 1900)

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Romans 11:19–23 (KJV 1900)

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

John 5:39 —KJV

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”

Psa. 119:105 —KJV

“¶ NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.”



Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900)

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3) Warnings about hardening your heart make no sense if the gospel cannot be understood

Hebrews 3:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,



Hebrews 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.



Hebrews 4:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.



4) If man cannot understand the gospel why would God blind men so they could not believe

John 12:40 (KJV 1900)

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Or speaks to men in parables so they would not understand

Mark 4:11–12 (KJV 1900)

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Why would the devil blind anyone

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ

but you will not deal with just as other have not dealt with it
Paul taught the same thing Jesus did, just different terminology. Natural man cannot receive understand the things of the Spirit of God, must be born again first.
 
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