Why does God call people to repentence?

LeeH said:
We disagree on the predestination side has you know P4T, but this is a seperate issue for now, it's what does God intend when he commands us to do something, is it his will we do it, do you believe that?
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I can't and won't dismiss predestination so that I remain faithful to 2 Timothy 2:15, and of course to God Himself.

It has to be included, and whether you disagree or not, God limited in number (predestined) those whom He willed to save; Romans 8:26-30, and chose them unconditionally to salvation; Romans 9:11ff; Ephesians 1:4ff; 2 Thess. 2:13 &c.

No offense (and how will you receive correction 2 Timothy 3:16ff, if you are not confronted?) most of your issues and errors stem from your failure to believe this, thinking God is unfair (unjust).

Why not face it? I'm not saying this to be right, mean, or anything else. But do you realize you spend most of your time here trying to refute this fact of what God has revealed that He has done? And trying to get texts that give God all the glory to taking it and laying that on mans choice?

Romans 9:19-21 my friend. People have no fear of God because so many preach they can simply choose to go to heaven by free will, and they get to go.

If I were you, I'd "change my mind" to accept this Biblically plain truth. I did, about some 15 years ago, except for the fact I wasn't belligerent toward this truth as others are.
 
preacher4truth said:
I can't and won't dismiss predestination so that I remaoin faithful to 2 Timothy 2:15.

It has to be included, and whether you disagree or not, God limited in number (predestined) those whom He willed to save Romans 8:26-30, and chose them unconditionally to salvation; Romans 9:11ff; Ephesians 1:4ff; 2 Thess. 2:13 &c.

No offense (and how will you receive correction 2 Timothy 3:16ff, if you are not confronted?) most of your issues and errors stem from your failure to believe this, thinking God is unfair (unjust). Why not face it? I'm not saying this to be right, mean, or anything else. But do you realize you spend most of your time here trying to refute this? And trying to get texts that give God all the glory to taking it and laying that on mans choice?

Romans 9:19-21 my friend.

If I were you, I'd "change my mind" to accept this Biblically plain truth. I did, about some 15 years ago, except for the fact I wasn't belligerent toward this truth as others are.
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Is that acccept the fact, or except the fact?
 
LeeH said:
but if he commands it, it must be his will that we obey that commandment,
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I wouldn't go that far.
I think it's safer to say if He commands it, it must mean He wants to give the command.

Romans 7/7 I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said you shall not covet

There are other reasons why the law could be given.
 
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LeeH said:
We disagree on the predestination side has you know P4T, but this is a seperate issue for now, it's what does God intend when he commands us to do something, is it his will we do it, do you believe that?
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If you wish to have a productive discussion here, there are two fundamental things you need to address. You might not agree with them, but that's irrelevant, since it's what Calvinists believe, and you are CLAIMING to be criticizing Calvinism.

1) You need to address the fact that "command" does NOT imply "ability". You ASSUME that it does, and you appeal to emotion and rationalization to try to defend it, instead of addressing it from the BIBLE. We don't need Biblical support to question your ASSUMPTION that "command implies ability". But we do have Biblical support that command does NOT imply ability, since God gave the Mosaic Law to the Jews, and they were UNABLE to keep it (Rom. 3:19-20). This controversy dates back to Augustine and Pelagius, when Augustine prayed, "Give what you command, and command what thou will", and Pelagius objected to it.

2) As ReverendRV pointed out earlier, Calvinists believe that God has two wills, a decretive will, and a permissive will. God wills that we do not murder, that's in the Mosaic Law. But God also wills that we WILL murder (eg. Acts 4:27-28). So He can will for all to believe and be saved, and at the same time will that only the elect will be saved, since He only gives faith to the elect.

Further, there is nothing inherently "salvific" in repenting and believing. These are simply moral OBLIGATIONS on our part. God can demand we do both, and not "give" us anything for doing what we're SUPPOSED to do. We are OBLIGATED to repent, since we have sinned, and we need to repent of those sins. We are OBLIGATED to believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that He is Lord, because that's the truth. God simply uses faith as a MEANS by which to save His elect.
 
preacher4truth said:
I can't and won't dismiss predestination so that I remain faithful to 2 Timothy 2:15, and of course to God Himself.

It has to be included, and whether you disagree or not, God limited in number (predestined) those whom He willed to save; Romans 8:26-30, and chose them unconditionally to salvation; Romans 9:11ff; Ephesians 1:4ff; 2 Thess. 2:13 &c.

No offense (and how will you receive correction 2 Timothy 3:16ff, if you are not confronted?) most of your issues and errors stem from your failure to believe this, thinking God is unfair (unjust).

Why not face it? I'm not saying this to be right, mean, or anything else. But do you realize you spend most of your time here trying to refute this fact of what God has revealed that He has done? And trying to get texts that give God all the glory to taking it and laying that on mans choice?

Romans 9:19-21 my friend. People have no fear of God because so many preach they can simply choose to go to heaven by free will, and they get to go.

If I were you, I'd "change my mind" to accept this Biblically plain truth. I did, about some 15 years ago, except for the fact I wasn't belligerent toward this truth as others are.
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Are you 2nd Timothy?

This was Paul's letter to Timothy; imo basically saying just don't be.

In the around and round ...... Timothy may or may not have agreed with Paul.

Most of us do not like not being.
 
Theo1689 said:
If you wish to have a productive discussion here, there are two fundamental things you need to address. You might not agree with them, but that's irrelevant, since it's what Calvinists believe, and you are CLAIMING to be criticizing Calvinism.

1) You need to address the fact that "command" does NOT imply "ability". You ASSUME that it does, and you appeal to emotion and rationalization to try to defend it, instead of addressing it from the BIBLE. We don't need Biblical support to question your ASSUMPTION that "command implies ability". But we do have Biblical support that command does NOT imply ability, since God gave the Mosaic Law to the Jews, and they were UNABLE to keep it (Rom. 3:19-20). This controversy dates back to Augustine and Pelagius, when Augustine prayed, "Give what you command, and command what thou will", and Pelagius objected to it.

2) As ReverendRV pointed out earlier, Calvinists believe that God has two wills, a decretive will, and a permissive will. God wills that we do not murder, that's in the Mosaic Law. But God also wills that we WILL murder (eg. Acts 4:27-28). So He can will for all to believe and be saved, and at the same time will that only the elect will be saved, since He only gives faith to the elect.

Further, there is nothing inherently "salvific" in repenting and believing. These are simply moral OBLIGATIONS on our part. God can demand we do both, and not "give" us anything for doing what we're SUPPOSED to do. We are OBLIGATED to repent, since we have sinned, and we need to repent of those sins. We are OBLIGATED to believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that He is Lord, because that's the truth. God simply uses faith as a MEANS by which to save His elect.
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Kind of a side issue of course, yet since you used it to make a point, I believe I've heard it stated that there is a difference between murder & killing, Biblically. Killing permitted, murder forbidden. "A time to kill...?" I haven't studied it out though I believe it is accurate.

Secondly, my point as well, and it was overlooked, and not just by anti-Calvinists; We are not saved because we repent and believe. Because we are saved, we repent and believe.
 
LeeH said:
So okay we can agree on this, so does he want everyone to believe or not, not that they maybe able to, the question does hye want them to?
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If He wanted everyone to repent and believe they would, seeing both repentance and faith are gifts of God via the new birth, regeneration, the taking out of the stony heart and given a new fleshly heart.

If so, why does he want them to?
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If He wants them to repent and believe, they will, seeing He gifts them the ability to do so.

That is a seperate issue at the moment.
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Goes right along with it.

Again a seperate issue at the moment and although important doesn't address the question in the OP.
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Goes right along with it.

What's the owl for, I keep seeing that, what is that all about?
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Someone posted Huh? in a post and I posted Who? and P4T posted an owl emoji. I started using it ever since. His name is Iggy. I’m trying to teach him to talk but all he says right now is “hoot!” ?
 
LeeH said:
Does God want all people to repent and believe in him, does he command it?
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No.

LeeH said:
If the answer is no, please explain why God commands something he doesn't want to happen?
If the answer is yes, then he must want all people to be saved, if he wants ALL people to repent and believe, what other purpose can there be for it?
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The proclamation that men are to repent began with the ministry of Jesus (Acts 17:30-31).
 
preacher4truth said:
Kind of a side issue of course, yet since you used it to make a point, I believe I've heard it stated that there is a difference between murder & killing, Biblically. Killing permitted, murder forbidden. "A time to kill...?" I haven't studied it out though I believe it is accurate.

Secondly, my point as well, and it was overlooked, and not just by anti-Calvinists; We are not saved because we repent and believe. Because we are saved, we repent and believe.
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Well, God commanded the Amelakites, Ai, Jericho to be completely obliterated. Yet, that wasn’t murder, as they were not innocent in His sight. I’m sure you agree, just adding to the discussion.
 
SovereignGrace said:
Acts 17:30 says He does. But commanding them does not mean they have the ability to. Just like we are commanded to be holy as He is holy. We are commanded to be just as holy as He is, yet we are unable to do so. ?
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But that doesn't mean we can't obey in as far as doing better than we were.
 
Howie said:
No.
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Mark 1:14-16
14 After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. 15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

That scripture says he wants people to repent and believe the gospel, are you claiming he doesn't want that?
 
SovereignGrace said:
If He wanted everyone to repent and believe they would, seeing both repentance and faith are gifts of God via the new birth, regeneration, the taking out of the stony heart and given a new fleshly heart.
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So he doesn't want everyone to repent and believe.

So Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

You claim Acts 17:30 is not a genuine call to repentence then?
SovereignGrace said:
Someone posted Huh? in a post and I posted Who? and P4T posted an owl emoji. I started using it ever since. His name is Iggy. I’m trying to teach him to talk but all he says right now is “hoot!” ?
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I see.
 
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