Why does God call people to repentence?

[David1701]

Devil's Advocate...

Would you say the 'way' God Loved the World was, according to the Verse, very much?

Certainly; but it's not the subject of the verse.

 

[ReverendRV]

Certainly; but it's not the subject of the verse.

Agreed...

We would have to modify the word Kosmos by using All Scripture to do so; otherwise it means everyone...

The modifying would be Theology, not Eisegesis...

We credit the modifying to the Theology, not the Verse. I grow more convinced that some cries of Eisegeting a Verse are misplaced; the modifying belongs to Systematic Theology instead...

 

[CookedGoose]

Well, in a sense, God is also a beneficiary, because all things are for his glory and pleasure.

I almost wrote that in but stopped short.
Since you caught me I was going to say He's a beneficiary of His redemptive plan which He created. His redemptive plan is for His glory and pleasure.

 

[Theo1689]

even though there is much evil God will try and turn it to good,

You know that's unBiblical, right?
God is an ACTOR (and in fact, the PRIMARY mover), He is not a "RE-actor".

he is working for good all the time,

"working for good"...
Working very hard...
Trying his best...
Giving it that ol' college try!

Yet there's so much evil in the world, as you acknowledge.
So either God is an enormous failure (as you must believe),
or the actions where we find evil also come for good for God.

we must never forget that.

You are not our "teacher", Lee.
YOU "must never forget that".
Get over yourself, okay?

Many people will be saved, but it's my belief God would like to save all,

We're not here to embrace "[your] belief".
We're here to believe what the BIBLE teaches.

because that would be a good thing if no one went to hell, wouldn't it?

Of course not.
You obviously care more about man than you do about God.

Why did God CREATE sinners FOR hell?:

Rom. 9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

The presence of sinners in hell:
- demonstrates God's wrath;
- demonstrates God's power
- demonstrates God's patience;
- demonstrates God's justice;
- demonstrates God's holiness;
- demonstrates God's mercy;
- demonstrates God's grace;
- demonstrates that God in fact does NOT "want to save" all sinners.

Which gives God the greatest glory saving some, or everyone?

Some.
But again, you are engaging in rationalization because you hate what the Bible teaches.

So I struggle to see why God would only want to save some and not try and save all.

That's not our problem.
We're not trying to convince you that Calvinism is true, remember?
If you don't think Calvinism is true, then don't accept it.
Stop obsessing over it.

 

[Theo1689]

Why would ANYBODY do (or not do) ANYTHING???? Islamics claim that Isa (Jesus) NEVER WAS CRUCIFIED AT ALL (some other poor slob was made to "look like him", and murdered in His place). You can't make this garbage up!!!!

You know that's not what they actually believe, right?
They deny that Jesus was crucified.
But the "imposter" theory is only one of a few theories to explain what happened. It's not canonical.

 

[Theo1689]

Many people will be saved, but it's my belief God would like to save all, because that would be a good thing if no one went to hell, wouldn't it? Which gives God the greatest glory saving some, or everyone?

Lee, if you actually believe that, then I would challenge you to:

1) try to provide a DETAILED Biblical support for your claim, where the Bible teaches that the fewer people in hell, the more God is glorified;

2) Provide a DETAILED exegesis of Rom. 9:11-24, which is VERY problematic for your view.

 

[LeeH]

You do not appear to understand that God's commands are for US to obey, not HIM.

We are to obey him, correct. Where did I say God has to obey his own commands in my reply? Why are you trying to attribute this false accusation against me, I never said that?

He is not commanding himself to repent, nor is he commanding himself to cause all of us to repent.

Again another false accusation.

God's determinative will and his preceptive will are different categories of will, as I pointed out. You cannot set them against each other, as if they were the same kind of will.

He wants us to obey, he doesn't want us to obey, correct. Are you telling me this is the God you believe in?

God's preceptive will tells us what we are accountable to do. We are told to do these things, because they are right and good, and we ought to do them.

Here we can agree. 100%

God's determinative will is what he has determined to happen.

So if we do what is opposite to what is good, that is God determinative will, correct? So is this not in contradiction to what you previously said about doing right and good? Either he wants us to do that or he doesn't?

What you are saying is God wants us to obey him and do what is right and good, but secretly he doesn't want us to and even determined that we don't.

if he were, then there would have been no Fall of Adam; in fact, there would have been no sin by man - ever.

So are you saying God desired/wanted Adam and Eve to disobey him and fall into sin?

 

[Theo1689]

He wants us to obey, he doesn't want us to obey, correct. Are you telling me this is the God you believe in?

You continue to ignore God's two wills, to try to make our beliefs look foolish.
Since you're not addressing what we ACTUALLY believe, you aren't succeeding in anything, other than making yourself look foolish and malicious.

So if we do what is opposite to what is good, that is God determinative will, correct? So is this not in contradiction to what you previously said about doing right and good? Either he wants us to do that or he doesn't?

You continue to ignore God's two wills, to try to make our beliefs look foolish.
Since you're not addressing what we ACTUALLY believe, you aren't succeeding in anything, other than making yourself look foolish and malicious.

What you are saying is God wants us to obey him and do what is right and good, but secretly he doesn't want us to and even determined that we don't.

What we are saying is that He commands us to obey and do what is right and good, and what we are obligated to do, but that for His own purpose and glory (eg. Gen. 50:20, Isa. 10:5-7, Acts 4:27-28) He can hae us will to do otherwise.

Again, you're simply to use worthless rationalization to try to reject what the Bible teaches.

So are you saying God desired/wanted Adam and Eve to disobey him and fall into sin?

Yes, we know that you don't believe in such a god.
That's why you don't believe in the God of the Bible.

 

[CookedGoose]

Many people will be saved, but it's my belief God would like to save all, because that would be a good thing if no one went to hell, wouldn't it? Which gives God the greatest glory saving some, or everyone? So I struggle to see why God would only want to save some and not try and save all.

I think this is exactly the topic Paul covers in Romans 9

He's predetermined vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and my ways are not His ways.
In other words, if I were God would I do it differently? That's not for me to answer because I'm not God.

 

[LeeH]

Did you see this, @LeeH ?

You need to understand that we're responding to posts on the fly, and don't always use the best wording. It's not like we're posting book drafts that we've been working on for months and which have gone through multiple editing phases.

I did and did you see my reply, long before this reply was made here? #76

Now how about cutting me some slack?

 

[Theo1689]

I did and did you see my reply, long before this reply was made here? #76

Yes, I saw it.
But how did that "erase" all your strutting around like a proud peacock proclaiming that he was "wrong" and that I should be rebuking him instead of you?
Get over yourself.

Now how about cutting me some slack?

I'm rebuking your for your poor behaviour (just as RevRv had to do).
I've treated you FAR better than you've treated me or others.
Do better.

 

[CookedGoose]

Gods intent is always for good, agreed.

Yet He allowed the serpent into the garden
Yet He allowed Joseph to be handed over
Yet He sent the Assyrians against "His people"
Yet He delivered His Son to be crucified.
Yet some end up in hell
Yet He's omnipotent and omniscient
etc...etc.....

Free will doesn't have enough cloth to cover over all the conflicts here.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Does God want all people to repent and believe in him, does he command it?

If the answer is no, please explain why God commands something he doesn't want to happen?
If the answer is yes, then he must want all people to be saved, if he wants ALL people to repent and believe, what other purpose can there be for it?

God's calling upon his chosen people to come to the Shepherd. He's reconciling his elect unto himself.

John 10:22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Read these passages and share your thoughts?​

 

[ReverendRV]

God's calling upon his chosen people to come to the Shepherd. He's reconciling his elect unto himself.

John 10:22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Read these passages and share your thoughts?​

It's better when you are here

Go Braves!

 

[LeeH]

Again, you're simply to use worthless rationalization to try to reject what the Bible teaches.

Well that's because I am probably a worthless individual like you claimed in one of your previous posts.

That's why you don't believe in the God of the Bible.

God will be the judge of that, not you.

I am tired of your responses, you're on ignore.

 

[ReverendRV]

Well that's because I am probably a worthless individual like you claimed in one of your previous posts.

God will be the judge of that, not you.

I am tired of your responses, you're on ignore.

You win...

Terrible way to win thought...

 

[Bob Carabbio]

You know that's not what they actually believe, right?
They deny that Jesus was crucified.
But the "imposter" theory is only one of a few theories to explain what happened. It's not canonical.

Any explanation is better than none. Bottom line = NO SALVATION IN ISLAM, they're all hellbound.

An-Nisa 4:155-158

 

[Theo1689]

Well that's because I am probably a worthless individual like you claimed in one of your previous posts.

I'd love to see a linked quote showing where I allegedly said any such thing.

God will be the judge of that, not you.

You are likewise not the judge.
You need to learn that lesson.

I am tired of your responses, you're on ignore.

Well, that's convenient, now you have an excuse to refuse to provide a linked quote support your false accusation against me.

 

[preacher4truth]

I've made several thought out responses to @LeeH and have never gotten a response back.

I must be on ignore too.

 

[Rockson]

He is under no obligation to cause everyone to do what he ought to do;

God doesn't make anyone do what they ought to do.