Why does Whatever feel we are under the OT law?

T

The Pixie

Well-known member
ferengi said:
She says -
OOPSSS still no evidence we're not under OT law - https://forums.carm.org/threads/i-think-christianity-may-be-indefensible.3030/page-15#post-252440 post 300

Why does she feel we under the OT law? Does she have evidence we are?
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I find this a fascinating issue. It is a great illustration of how Christianity has been mutated to suit what Christians want to believe, rather than what Jesus actually said.

Matthew 5:17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.​

Christians - keen to eat pork and shellfish, to say nothing of avoiding circumcision - like to pretend "fulfill" here implies the laws no longer apply, totally ignoring what the word actually means. Jesus is not saying he is fulfilling God's commands and rules, he is saying he is fulfilling the prophecies in the book known as the Law. Indeed, Jesus states very clearly he is NOT changing the commands when he says he is not abolishing the books.

It is like Jesus' command to give up all your material goods. Who wants to do that, right? So Christians pretend it does not apply to them.

Or how about Jesus railing against hypocrisy? How easily Christians ignore that, and, for example, demand their opponents supply evidence, whilst never doing so themselves. The double standards of Christians are so obvious to the rest of us, and yet they seem unable to even see them.

And then the command to love your neighbour as yourself. Does anyone for a moment believe the Christians around here love us atheists? Of course not! But I bet they can rationalise away why that does not apply.
 
T

The Pixie

Well-known member
ferengi said:
Dont give into their burden shifting
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Sure, last thing you want is any Christian giving evidence. What is stiggy even thinking - citing scripture to support his point?

No, the Christian way is to always demand evidence of others, and to never supply it yourself. It is what Jesus said, right?
 
stiggy wiggy

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
The Pixie said:
I find this a fascinating issue. It is a great illustration of how Christianity has been mutated to suit what Christians want to believe, rather than what Jesus actually said.

Matthew 5:17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.​

Christians - keen to eat pork and shellfish, to say nothing of avoiding circumcision.
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Yep. Love that shrimp and am circumcised tighter than a peeled banana, and I don't confess my sins over a goat. Love the legal and fulfilled typology and the grace even more.
 
Whateverman

Whateverman

Well-known member
The Pixie said:
Matthew 5:17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.​

Christians - keen to eat pork and shellfish, to say nothing of avoiding circumcision - like to pretend "fulfill" here implies the laws no longer apply, totally ignoring what the word actually means.
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I'm not sure if you remember, but a few incarnations of the forums ago, I posted a hypothetical question. It involved a posted speed limit (aka. a law), and I asked what a powerful being would have to do to fulfill it.

In that thread, Christians and even some of the more notorious Christian trolls here answered that to fulfill a law means to OBEY it. Not strike it down, not decide that it only applies to people who no longer exist, etc.

I guess the lesson here is that when apologetics are needed, Chrenglish comes into play...
 
stiggy wiggy

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
Whateverman said:
I'm not sure if you remember, but a few incarnations of the forums ago, I posted a hypothetical question. It involved a posted speed limit (aka. a law), and I asked what a powerful being would have to do to fulfill it.

In that thread, Christians and even some of the more notorious Christian trolls here answered that to fulfill a law means to OBEY it. Not strike it down, not decide that it only applies to people who no longer exist, etc.
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He fulfilled it by being its Antitype.
 
F

ferengi

Well-known member
The Pixie said:
I find this a fascinating issue. It is a great illustration of how Christianity has been mutated to suit what Christians want to believe, rather than what Jesus actually said.
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Your evidence is?
The Pixie said:
Christians - keen to eat pork and shellfish, to say nothing of avoiding circumcision -
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Prove we are under the OT law.
The Pixie said:
like to pretend "fulfill" here implies the laws no longer apply, totally ignoring what the word actually means.
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Your evidence is?
The Pixie said:
Jesus is not saying he is fulfilling God's commands and rules, he is saying he is fulfilling the prophecies in the book known as the Law. Indeed, Jesus states very clearly he is NOT changing the commands when he says he is not abolishing the books.
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Your evidence is?
The Pixie said:
It is like Jesus' command to give up all your material goods.
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Prove thats what he said.
The Pixie said:
Or how about Jesus railing against hypocrisy?
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And your hypocrisy?
The Pixie said:
How easily Christians ignore that
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Prove it.
The Pixie said:
, and, for example, demand their opponents supply evidence,
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Yes thats what we SHOULD do,.
The Pixie said:
whilst never doing so themselves.
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Prove it.
The Pixie said:
The double standards of Christians are so obvious to the rest of us, and yet they seem unable to even see them.
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See above.
The Pixie said:
And then the command to love your neighbour as yourself. Does anyone for a moment believe the Christians around here love us atheists? Of course not! But I bet they can rationalise away why that does not apply.
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See above.
 
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