Why Evangelicals always lose the Mormon Debate!

Richard7

Well-known member
Have you been to St. Peter's Basilica or Notre Dame? Some beautiful Churches in Europe [below]....

https://www.rivierarivercruises.com...amous-cathedrals-and-basilicas-across-europe/
Yep, in 2020 I went with my Daughter and Son-in-law to St Peter’s Basilica, Vatican City... we also attended our New Temple Dedication... My sister in law wanted me to buy some rosary beads in Vatican City, which I did... she of course is Catholic. My wife was brought up as a Catholic... I admire and am impressed with so much they have done over the years...
 

The Prophet

Active member
Then why do we always win the debate? the best you guys can come up with is 3 in on God... which we win every-time and also Faith wihout works is dead!

We have countlessly explained the Godhead... not our problem you want to continue to misrepresent our Godhead doctrine.. this is the reason you guys lose so much...its obvious to most visitors and guest you have to twist our doctrine in a attempt to live with a very faulty doctrine of the Trinity as you observe it and we don't ... hmm
The Godhead is taught in the Book of Mormon

Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fulnesspel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covanants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:


General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.
 

Richard7

Well-known member
The Godhead is taught in the Book of Mormon

Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fulnesspel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covanants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:


General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.
Why do you keep repeating something we have already explained... do you get some kind of joy at misrepresenting Penrose...
 

The Prophet

Active member
How so, all I see is speculation and not source for validation... so for now, nothing but conjecture on your part..
How could Jesus be the firstborn son of God the Father in the Pre-existence when Mormon Canon teaches he is God from Eternity?

2 Nephi 26: 12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

Mosiah 3 5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

Alma 11: 44 before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Doctrine and Covenants 20: 28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen
 

Richard7

Well-known member
How could Jesus be the firstborn son of God the Father in the Pre-existence when Mormon Canon teaches he is God from Eternity?

2 Nephi 26: 12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

Mosiah 3 5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

Alma 11: 44 before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Doctrine and Covenants 20: 28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen
I asked how so to your claim..." Moroni 10 is where it's been mistranslated " evading my request does not show a desire to debate on your part... not answering anything else tell you answer with a verification or source... where has it been mistranslated?
 

The Prophet

Active member
I asked how so to your claim..." Moroni 10 is where it's been mistranslated " evading my request does not show a desire to debate on your part... not answering anything else tell you answer with a verification or source... where has it been mistranslated?
Moroni 10:4 has been mistranslated since the introduction in the Book of Mormon tells us the way it should read :)
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Moroni 10:4 has been mistranslated since the introduction in the Book of Mormon tells us the way it should read :)
Do you know the difference between a introduction and Scripture? Your really are stretching or reaching in you above answer.

Introduction:...a thing preliminary to something else, especially an explanatory section at the beginning of a book, report, or speech: your talk will need an introduction that states clearly what you are talking about and why.

Scripture: Scripture refers to the written text, Given by the inspiration of God.
 

The Prophet

Active member
Do you know the difference between a introduction and Scripture? Your really are stretching or reaching in you above answer.

Introduction:...a thing preliminary to something else, especially an explanatory section at the beginning of a book, report, or speech: your talk will need an introduction that states clearly what you are talking about and why.

Scripture: Scripture refers to the written text, Given by the inspiration of God.
I have been told the introduction is just as much authoritative as the text as well as the topical guide by missionaries :)
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Then why do we always win the debate? the best you guys can come up with is 3 in on God... which we win every-time and also Faith wihout works is dead!

Mormons don't, Richard. That is just Mormons trying to convince themselves that they do. Nothing but empty boasting.
We have countlessly explained the Godhead... not our problem you want to continue to misrepresent our Godhead doctrine.. this is the reason you guys lose so much...its obvious to most visitors and guest you have to twist our doctrine in a attempt to live with a very faulty doctrine of the Trinity as you observe it and we don't ... hmm
The Mormon "godhead" concept changed even during Smith's time. First, in the BoM, God is Triune--Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are "one God". Even the testimony of the Three Witnesses in the forepart of that book says so. But then Smith changed his tune. First, he taught that the Father as a personage of spirit, but that got changed to a person of flesh and bone as tangible as a man's. Then God was no longer Three eternal Persons in One God, but three separate Gods. Smith claims he always taught that they were three Gods, but that is false. The BoM teaches basic Trinitarianism. ONE God composed of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Then of course, the doctrine further evolved, into "As man is now, God once was. As God is now, man may become." The Mormon God went from being One eternal God, to a god who first was a man on "an earth" who had to learn how to become a god and how we too have to learn how to become a god, as all other gods before us have done.

So, ,Mormonism's godhead is a confusing mish-mash, the doctrine of which changed drastically even during Smith's time. But what does God almighty say? "I the LORD do not change." But in Mormonism, his changed--big time!
 

Richard7

Well-known member
That has to be the truest thing you’ve ever written here.

We have the Bible and you have chuckle.
and we .... means there is more.... so for all you visitors and guest I apologize for being less than clear... they only have the bible... hmm
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Mormons don't, Richard. That is just Mormons trying to convince themselves that they do. Nothing but empty boasting.

The Mormon "godhead" concept changed even during Smith's time. First, in the BoM, God is Triune--Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are "one God". Even the testimony of the Three Witnesses in the forepart of that book says so. But then Smith changed his tune. First, he taught that the Father as a personage of spirit, but that got changed to a person of flesh and bone as tangible as a man's. Then God was no longer Three eternal Persons in One God, but three separate Gods. Smith claims he always taught that they were three Gods, but that is false. The BoM teaches basic Trinitarianism. ONE God composed of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Then of course, the doctrine further evolved, into "As man is now, God once was. As God is now, man may become." The Mormon God went from being One eternal God, to a god who first was a man on "an earth" who had to learn how to become a god and how we too have to learn how to become a god, as all other gods before us have done.

So, ,Mormonism's godhead is a confusing mish-mash, the doctrine of which changed drastically even during Smith's time. But what does God almighty say? "I the LORD do not change." But in Mormonism, his changed--big time!
Joseph Smith and the First Vision
The seeds of Latter-day Saint understanding about the Godhead were planted in 1820 in the Sacred Grove. From that experience, Joseph Smith learned “that not all truth [was contained] in the Bible.” [9] Joseph learned—among other things—that God the Father and Jesus Christ are two distinct personages and that man was created in the express image of God (see Joseph Smith—History 1:15–19). This singular experience started Joseph Smith down a path that would lead him and the Latter-day Saints away from traditional Trinitarian doctrine. In 1844, he said, “I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.” [10] Following the First Vision, Joseph Smith was left to wait “until further directed” (Joseph Smith—History 1:26). Knowledge and understanding would come in God’s time. The boy Joseph Smith became the Prophet Joseph Smith “grace for grace” (D&C 93:12), “precept upon precept,” “line upon line” (Isaiah 28:10), and revelation by revelation. Similar to the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Church did not receive all understanding at once, but progressed one revelation at a time as the prophets have received them from God and according to his timing.

LDS.org
 
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