No, Doug, I do understand your position. I keep asking you if you believe in Libertarian Free-Will, but you kinda avoid answering it directing; this is a notion of the Arminian position, yes? Both Calvinists & Arminian hold to Total Depravity, ( Total depravity is a Christian theological doctrine derived from the concept of original sin. It teaches that, as a consequence of man's fall, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin as a result of their fallen nature and, apart from the efficacious or prevenient grace of God, is completely unable to choose by themselves to follow God, refrain from evil, or accept the gift of salvation as it is offered), or in essence unbelief is in our DNA.I think you're misunderstanding what I was trying to say. My only point is that man's volition is in itself a gift, an act of grace. Thus, if we are able to choose at all, regardless of the point of reference, it is because of grace! PG does not violate free will it restores it. The error that you are making is to assume that I do not believe that grace is ever irresistible; PG is irresistible because its main focus is on the effects of sin on mankind.
So the part you are missing here Doug, is that God regenerates this dead body of sin, and we are made ALIVE by the Holy Spirit that bears witness to the truth, proclaimed by God's word, by God giving us NEW hearts to believe, and NEW minds to understand. God gives us FAITH as a FREE GIFT, which in turn we follow him, because we hear His voice. All of this comes to pass because God made a PROMISE, a COVENANT, A OATH, to redeem us. Redeeming is a Divine Act of God, which includes our Faith to believe. It's effectual because God made it so, through a Promise (Ezekiel 36). Have you read Ezekiel 36? I recommend you look into Classical Covenant Theology, to get a understanding of what I am saying. Kingdom Prologue by Meredith Kline is a excellent read. The Sacred Bond by Brown & Keele, this one is my favortie because its more for the layman, easier to understand.
To say that people who are regenerated can reject or resist God in Salvation, is saying that they possess more power than God and his word. The problem of the incompatibilist conception is that it reverses the biblical order of priority in the relationship between God and human beings. It says, in effect, "I am free, therefore God is circumscription by his freedom." But rather than the will of God being dependent upon the choices of his creatures, Scripture teaches the absolute dependence of all creatures upon God. This is the biblical ground of compatibilism. We cannot define God's right or agency by our perception of freedom.; rather we must understand what freedom means within the biblical witness to a divine sovereignty in which "not one drop of rain falls without God's sure command."
Thomas Aquinas, wrote, that while there are arguments about a freedom pie, and who has the larger share, God or humans. Thomas said that God has his own freedom pie, and in it we live and move. Humans have creaturely freedom, & God has creator freedom.
Calvinist position hold to the extent of original sin to all his progeny, not so much the intensity.Under the power of the sinful nature, outside of divine interaction, man would have been 'as bad as he could be' and destroyed himself. PG intervenes and mitigates the power of sin, lessening its overall power on every aspect of mankind. Therefore, we are not as bad as we could be, sin does not effects us as strongly as it would have otherwise. Even Calvinists hold to this.
See this statement I do not agree with, here's why. We are in bondage to sin, there's no escaping this plight by our own efforts. Let me clarify, we are dead in our trespasses; here we both agree, being dead, but then God makes us ALIVE in Christ. There's no room here for a 3rd category of semi-alive, but not dead yet. Lets look at this passage, Eph. 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.However, sin still affects every single aspect of our being, and we are nonetheless still under its total control in that we are unable to keep from sinning consistently, and that without the drawing of God through the Spirit and the gospel, we would not desire nor be able to respond any way but negatively.
So here again its God's doing for us, when we could never to do. God doesn't take us halfway Doug, and leaves us stranded, that's not a loving Father, but on contrary its a Loving Father saving his children, all the way. Ephesians 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us. This is Love Doug, this is where I find peace, joy, happiness, assurance, strength, hope, love, kindness, blessings, and good news for the ungodly!
I disagree, Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.There is a natural part of us that is meant to respond to the presence of God and his truth. This is why those "who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law" (Rom 2:14), and why we know when we have done something wrong instinctively. The conscience is God's means of communicating these truths, and your definition of being "dead in sin" would not allow for such spiritual truth.
This is for those who want to suppress the truth. They hate the light because it exposes their evil deeds, which they love to do. They love the darkness (John 3). But since God's law is written on their hearts, they are without excuse on the last day.
But see Doug, the good news is that God descended down to us! The glory belongs to God Alone in our Redemption. He's the one who redeems. He's the only one who will always remain faithful and fulfill his Promise, Covenant, Oath to save his people from their sins! God sends his Holy Spirit to regenerate his people to make they alive in Christ! And of this is EFFECTUAL Grace; meaning God's Word does come to pass.Finally, as I have stated in my previous post, the Arminian view makes salvation completely by grace through faith because under no circumstance can God be obligated to respond positively to us simply by what we do. God is the offended party, so any positive movement toward man, for any reason, is an act of grace alone!
For by Grace you have been Saved, and this is NOT own your doing, its a FREE GIFT from God (Ephesians 2).