It remains unaddressedThis is scripture
John 5:40
“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”
coming to Jesus through faith precedes life
John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”
Scripture clearly places faith before life
John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
The right to be born of God is given only to those who believe.
Galatians 3:26
“You are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus…”
becoming a child being born of God is obviously preceded by faith.
John 12:36
“Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.”
Christ is the light you want to be his child you must first believe
Colossians 2:12
“…having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection it is through faith
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Quickening (regeneration is preceded by having you sins forgiven
Sin is not forgiven without faith and repentance
Faith is before regeneration
James 1:18
“He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.”
The new birth is through the word of truth
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
“…being born again…”
“…by the word of God…”
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
“…begotten you…”
“…through the gospel…”
Men are born again through faith in the gospel as unbelief does not profit
Hebrews 4:2 (KJV)
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
and it shows faith precedes regeneration
It remains unaddressed
Manfred
Well-known member
Manfred
Well-known member
Why do you run away from your own teachings Tom?
Are you ashamed of your false teachings.
You teach a faith that comes from the flesh. That is born in the carnal mind. One that can discern the Spiritual without the Spirit of God.
Why deny it?
You have a faith born of the flesh, and not of the Spirit.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life
Manfred
Well-known member
Jesus does address faith in John 3. It is part of the context. Why would you deny that life and faith do not go hand in hand?
You advocate a carnal understanding of the gospel, and faith that comes from that carnality. That is a faith born of your flesh, and it is devoid of the Spirit of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Sethproton
Well-known member
Ok, then first explain what you mean by faith born of the flesh.
Sethproton
Well-known member
Yes, faith is in the chapter, but "faith born of the flesh" is not.
"Life born of the flesh" is there.
The bible never uses such a phrase nor do I
The bible teaches faith comes from the word of God
Romans 10:17 (KJV)
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
why do you call it carnal?
Why do you run from what scripture teaches?
Why I am not a Arminian (Anymore)
This is scripture John 5:40 “yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.” coming to Jesus through faith precedes life John 20:31 “But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”...
forums.carm.org
Is it because you can't deal with it?
You deny the authority of scripture?
You deny God" s authority and disrespect his word?
Manfred
Well-known member
Life with
I already explained that faith born of the flesh is faith not granted by the Holy Spirit.
It is what you believe in. You the natural man believing without the Spirit. You figured it out by yourself in the flesh.
That which is flesh is flesh.
Your faith is born of the flesh. You figured it out right?
Life without faith?
I already explained that faith born of the flesh is faith not granted by the Holy Spirit.
It is what you believe in. You the natural man believing without the Spirit. You figured it out by yourself in the flesh.
That which is flesh is flesh.
Your faith is born of the flesh. You figured it out right?
Manfred
Well-known member
Why are you hung up on a phrase?
Is this not your teaching that can be condensed into a phrase?
Why are you ashamed of your own teachings now?
That which is born of the flesh, is flesh is Biblical. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit, is Biblical
You say faith is not born of the Spirit. Why hide?
Because it is an unbiblical phrase you have loaded with meaning which never appears in the bible
and in its context it refers not to faith
but
John 3:4 (ESV)
4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Its not hiding its truing to get you to heed the authority of scripture
which never speaks of faith in the manner that you do
Further your entire view is unbiblical
Scripture shows man can believe the gospel
13 reasons why men must be capable of understanding and believing scripture
| Men needed to be hardened so they could not believe John 12:40 —KJV “He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.” had men not hardened themselves they could have believed Acts 28:27 —KJV “For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV “And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:” God's word says/shows it is sufficient John 20:31 (KJV 1900) 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood 2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900) 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900) 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: It shall not return unto me void, But it shall accomplish that which I please, And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900) 7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900) 130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; It giveth understanding unto the simple. Self explanitory Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900) 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so Acts 17:11 —KJV “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so Acts 18:28 —KJV “For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.” Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood John 1:7 —KJV “The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.” Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood James 1:21 (KJV) 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. Presupposes the word has power to save Ephesians 3:4 (KJV) 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Presupposes reading sufficient to know spiritual truth When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel, he sent a preacher Acts 11:13-14 (KJV) 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. The spirit sent Philip to preach the Gospel to the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27-35 (KJV) 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. |
Sethproton
Well-known member
ok, so you are talking about some kind of faith that you mean is something that you worked up in your flesh? Not really trusting God or believing in Jesus. Some kind of show where you don't really believe anything in the Bible.
Manfred
Well-known member
That is your teaching not mine. A faith that you promote here. One that you could understand without the Spirit. The one you worked up in your flesh.
I have a faith born of the Spirit of God. You do not.
Yes, that is exactly how you describe yourself.
I never claimed a faith from self like you do. My claim has always been a faith born of the Spirit!
Why the bait and switch? Are you now ashamed of your teachings when they are exposed for what they are?
Your faith that is not born of the Spirit is not trusting God and not believing in Jesus. You put on some kind of show, and you don't really believe anything in the Bible.
Thank you for at last admitting it. You and your buddy here are in the same boat!
Manfred
Well-known member
The Spirit and the word of God.
They do not contradict each other. A spirit without the word is a false deceiving spirit. The word of God without the Spirit is indiscernible, and cannot be understood. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life.
Your self will, and being able to understand spiritual truths without the Spirit is the authority you lean on, correct?
No they don't
so why did you ignore the scriptures
Scripture shows man can believe the gospel
13 reasons why men must be capable of understanding and believing scripture
| Men needed to be hardened so they could not believe John 12:40 —KJV “He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.” had men not hardened themselves they could have believed Acts 28:27 —KJV “For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV “And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:” God's word says/shows it is sufficient John 20:31 (KJV 1900) 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood 2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900) 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900) 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: It shall not return unto me void, But it shall accomplish that which I please, And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900) 7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900) 130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; It giveth understanding unto the simple. Self explanitory Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900) 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so Acts 17:11 —KJV “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so Acts 18:28 —KJV “For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.” Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood John 1:7 —KJV “The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.” Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood James 1:21 (KJV) 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. Presupposes the word has power to save Ephesians 3:4 (KJV) 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Presupposes reading sufficient to know spiritual truth When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel, he sent a preacher Acts 11:13-14 (KJV) 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. The spirit sent Philip to preach the Gospel to the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27-35 (KJV) 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. |
Manfred
Well-known member
Nowhere does it say the natural man understands or believes the gospel. That is your made up fairytale.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
All those scriptures you keep posting are about spiritual faith and not your unspiritual faith that you keep promoting.
So AMEN to all those scriptures when you understand that they are spiritually discerned.
Sorry but you offer only denial
- Why I am not a Arminian (Anymore)
This is scripture John 5:40 “yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.” coming to Jesus through faith precedes life John 20:31 “But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”...
forums.carm.org
which is why you cannot address those verses and avoid their context
where is the spiritual faith here
| Men needed to be hardened so they could not believe John 12:40 —KJV “He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.” Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV “And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:” |
If you claim had any value all these things would have unnecessary and the following untrue
had men not hardened themselves they could have believed
Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”
but scripture is always true it is just your man made theology which is false
BTW the issue is not about the psychikos man - the man who is only responsive to earthly wisdom your so called natural man
Sethproton
Well-known member
ok, Manfred.
Sethproton
Well-known member
Do you identify as a Calvinist?
G
guest1
Guest
Amen