Why I'm a Christian

TomFL

Well-known member
"The only reason why I'm a Christian
is because I'm a gift of the Father to the Son,
not because of anything I've ever done."
-- R.C. Sproul


This is why Calvinism NEVER "puffs up pride".D
Do you imagine humbly admitting you are a sinner unable to keep God's law and unable to help yourself and in need of God's grace is a reason for pride ?

I don't see it

So the Arminian/Provisionist may say the same thing
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Do you imagine humbly admitting you are a sinner unable to keep God's law and unable to help yourself and in need of God's grace is a reason for pride ?

I don't see it

So the Arminian/Provisionist may say the same thing
When I read the quote, it didn't seem to me as Prideful. If you can see it, I'm Willing to truly listen...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Do you imagine humbly admitting you are a sinner unable to keep God's law and unable to help yourself and in need of God's grace is a reason for pride ?

I don't see it

So the Arminian/Provisionist may say the same thing
Anyone who can say the same thing has a head-start running the Race as to win the prize...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
No me neither. I noted I do not see it
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've said in the Past that the only Grace we need from God is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. ~ Is "because I am a gift of the Father to the Son" also the Grace of God?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've said in the Past that the only Grace we need from God is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Is "because I am a gift of the Father to the Son" also the Grace of God?
No that does not sound quite right

It is unlikely i left off the work of the spirit in convicting man
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
No that does not sound quite right

It is unlikely i left off the work of the spirit in convicting man
Yeah, that's it. I speak with a few Provisionalists and forget which one says what; Professor Flowers does say that the Gospel is all the Grace of God we need. Requiring that we need the Gospel and the Spirit, is way much better than the Gospel Alone. The Gospel and the Spirit correspond to Jesus telling Nicodemus that the Spirit comes and goes when someone is Born Again; IE when more than one hears the Gospel but only one person gets Saved at the time...

So what does the Holy Spirit do to the Gospel?
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Do you imagine humbly admitting you are a sinner unable to keep God's law and unable to help yourself and in need of God's grace is a reason for pride ?
If you turn “humbly admitting” into a means to Gods Grace preformed by man alone then yet it is a “reason for pride”!

But If the “humbly admitting” is the result of Gods Grace preformed in you then you can say...

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. - 1 Corinthians 15:10

I don't see it

So the Arminian/Provisionist may say the same thing
As long as the “Arminian/Provisionist” doesn’t turn this verse into...

But by the power of me I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, it was I, It was not the grace of God working intrinsic to me, Grace only works extrinsic to me, it was me.

Provisionism denies that there is any Grace of God needed intrinsic to man in order to save man!

Provisionism says no intrinsic “prevenient Grace” necessary!
This is where they differ from Arminianism!

Provisionism says that the Grace of God is only extrinsic to fallen man and man is sufficient in-and-of-himself to make use of this extrinsic Grace provided!


For who sees anything different in you?
What do you have that you did not receive?
If then you received it,
why do you boast as if you did not receive it?
- 1 Corinthians 4:7

so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."
- 1 Corinthians 1:31
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
If you turn “humbly admitting” into a means to Gods Grace preformed by man alone then yet it is a “reason for pride”!

I disagree

Being humble cannot be prideful

I do not find that your claim is anything more than an erroneous personal opinion

James 4:6 —KJV
“But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.”

James 4:10 —KJV
“Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”

1 Pet. 5:5–6 —KJV
Ҧ Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
Humble yourselves
therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:”

Matt. 18:4; 23:12 —KJV
“Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.”


 

Sketo

Well-known member
I disagree

Being humble cannot be prideful

I do not find that your claim is anything more than an erroneous personal opinion

James 4:6 —KJV
“But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.”

James 4:10 —KJV
“Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”

1 Pet. 5:5–6 —KJV
Ҧ Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
Humble yourselves
therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:”

Matt. 18:4; 23:12 —KJV
“Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.”
And with this you prove my point!
 

bigthinker

Active member
"The only reason why I'm a Christian
is because I'm a gift of the Father to the Son,
not because of anything I've ever done."
-- R.C. Sproul


This is why Calvinism NEVER "puffs up pride".
it doesn't have to. the pride is inherent - Calvinism is unappealing to the humble.
Are there any Calvinists who believe they are not part of the elect?
To me, it seems like a great way for one to pretend they aren't prideful.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
And with this you prove my point!
Sorry all you are doing is assuming your views

While you ignore everything contrary to it

1 -Scripture shows God's word can be understood

2 -The same work in Chapter 1 shows those not depending on human wisdom were getting saved by the preaching of the cross

3- The same work in chapter 3 shows the Corinthians who could not be treated as spiritual believed the gospel

4- Scripture shows you cannot receive the spirit or be regenerated without faith in the gospel

5 -your whole approach is faulty

You cannot contradict multiple verses of scripture with your interpretation of 1 verse

6 - your basic assumption that Paul is promarily dealing with those with the spirit as opposed to those without the spirit. That is not the case Paul is dealing with wisdom. The wisdom that comes from man verses the wisdom that comes from the spirit. This wisdom may be received in two ways either directly from the spirit for those inspired or by hearing or reading the words of one who was so inspired

and that explains why the ones at 1:18b & 3:1 were getting saved while those in 1:18a and 2:14 were not



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Sketo

Well-known member
Sorry all you are doing is assuming your views

While you ignore everything contrary to it

1 -Scripture shows God's word can be understood

2 -The same work in Chapter 1 shows those not depending on human wisdom were getting saved by the preaching of the cross

3- The same work in chapter 3 shows the Corinthians who could not be treated as spiritual believed the gospel

4- Scripture shows you cannot receive the spirit or be regenerated without faith in the gospel

5 -your whole approach is faulty

You cannot contradict multiple verses of scripture with your interpretation of 1 verse

6 - your basic assumption that Paul is promarily dealing with those with the spirit as opposed to those without the spirit. That is not the case Paul is dealing with wisdom. The wisdom that comes from man verses the wisdom that comes from the spirit. This wisdom may be received in two ways either directly from the spirit for those inspired or by hearing or reading the words of one who was so inspired

and that explains why the ones at 1:18b & 3:1 were getting saved while those in 1:18a and 2:14 were not
And again with this you prove my point...


But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. - 1 Corinthians 15:10

And the “Provisionist” turns this verse into...

But by the power of me I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, it was I, It was not the grace of God working intrinsic to me, Grace only works extrinsic to me, it was me.

Provisionism denies that there is any Grace of God needed intrinsic to man in order to save man!

Provisionism says no intrinsic “prevenient Grace” necessary!
This is where they differ from Arminianism!

Provisionism says that the Grace of God is only extrinsic to fallen man and man is sufficient in-and-of-himself to make use of this extrinsic Grace provided!


For who sees anything different in you?
What do you have that you did not receive?
If then you received it,
why do you boast as if you did not receive it?
- 1 Corinthians 4:7

so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."
- 1 Corinthians 1:31
 

TomFL

Well-known member
And again with this you prove my point...

Sorry all you are doing is ignoring everything contrary to your point

TomFL said:
Sorry all you are doing is assuming your views

While you ignore everything contrary to it

1 -Scripture shows God's word can be understood

2 -The same work in Chapter 1 shows those not depending on human wisdom were getting saved by the preaching of the cross

3- The same work in chapter 3 shows the Corinthians who could not be treated as spiritual believed the gospel

4- Scripture shows you cannot receive the spirit or be regenerated without faith in the gospel

5 -your whole approach is faulty

You cannot contradict multiple verses of scripture with your interpretation of 1 verse

6 - your basic assumption that Paul is promarily dealing with those with the spirit as opposed to those without the spirit. That is not the case Paul is dealing with wisdom. The wisdom that comes from man verses the wisdom that comes from the spirit. This wisdom may be received in two ways either directly from the spirit for those inspired or by hearing or reading the words of one who was so inspired

and that explains why those at 1:18b & 3:1 were getting saved while those in 1:18a and 2:14 were not

evidenced by your failure to ever deal with the rebuttal to your claims which were posted from the very beginning




But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. - 1 Corinthians 15:10
Yeah because of God's grace Paul was an apostle

Nothing at all to do with the interpretation of 1Co 2:14




And the “Provisionist” turns this verse into...

But by the power of me I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, it was I, It was not the grace of God working intrinsic to me, Grace only works extrinsic to me, it was me.

That is just silly and little more than slander

Show me one who says that !

frankly it appears you are resorting to ad hominem rather than dealing with scripture and argument
 
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Sketo

Well-known member
That is just silly and little more than slander
Provisionism denies that there is any Grace of God needed intrinsic to man in order to save man!

Provisionism says no intrinsic “prevenient Grace” necessary!
This is where they differ from Arminianism!

Provisionism says that the Grace of God is only extrinsic to fallen man and man is sufficient in-and-of-himself to make use of this extrinsic Grace provided!

Is this true of Provisionism???
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Provisionism denies that there is any Grace of God needed intrinsic to man in order to save man!

Provisionism says no intrinsic “prevenient Grace” necessary!
This is where they differ from Arminianism!

Provisionism says that the Grace of God is only extrinsic to fallen man and man is sufficient in-and-of-himself to make use of this extrinsic Grace provided!

Is this true of Provisionism???
You need to defend your slander

Sketo said:
And the “Provisionist” turns this verse into...

But by the power of me I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, it was I, It was not the grace of God working intrinsic to me, Grace only works extrinsic to me, it was me.

That is just silly and little more than slander

Show me one who says that !

frankly it appears you are resorting to ad hominem rather than dealing with scripture and argument

before going on
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
it doesn't have to. the pride is inherent - Calvinism is unappealing to the humble.

I'm not sure what your evidence is for that.

Are there any Calvinists who believe they are not part of the elect?

Almost certainly, I would think.
And there are non-Calvinists who are part of the elect.
So I'm not sure what your point is.
To me, it seems like a great way for one to pretend they aren't prideful.

When you are truly humbled, one has no need to "pretend".
 
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