Why is apologetics so ineffective in converting skeptics?

Dizerner

Well-known member
"You have to have faith you're not in a matrix"__Dizerner

Heh heh, Morpheus would agree with you. And Neo too. And actually my friend you
ARE in The Matrix. You, the real you, right now are in a tank plugged into the machines
and they want to turn you into an Eveready Flashlight Battery. Meanwhile enjoy your
digital life here inside Thread World as you live out your digital self as Dizerner

May The Force be with you.

Scot me up Beamy.

Best Regards,

JAG

The spiritual realm could be comparable to a matrix.

I'm ready to get beamed up, I don't know about you!
 

e v e

Super Member
I would disagree. You have to have faith you're not in a matrix and you have to have faith in the brain's ability to do logic. But beyond that, defining what a city is, or what believe is, or what 2 is, or what is is, is not as easy as it intuitively seems to us. Ideas are metaphysical, and not easy describable.

I don't think Biblical faith means "a leap in the dark" nor do I think it means "believing against evidence," I think it means trusting something revealed to you; there is a prior "thing" you are putting trust in that you have in fact experienced. The virtues of faith are trusting the character revealed to you.
this is most definitely the matrix and its not His...
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
this is most definitely the matrix and its not His...

16 For all that is in the world-- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-- is not of the Father but is of the world.
17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. (1Jo 2:16-17 NKJ)


Best to just focus on being closer to the Lord rather than look out the window at this sinking Titanic.

He's coming... soon.


 

e v e

Super Member
16 For all that is in the world-- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-- is not of the Father but is of the world.
17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. (1Jo 2:16-17 NKJ)


Best to just focus on being closer to the Lord rather than look out the window at this sinking Titanic.

He's coming... soon.


i m waiting expectantly every day
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
i m waiting expectantly every day
And you will wait until you are in a grave which is to late to see Him by then. The grave is not going to reveal God for His kingdom is within you. Luke 17:20-21. But you seek another kingdom to come just as man has been waiting for it from the beginning of time. The One you should be seeking is at your door this day.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Apologetics is just a lot of talk. That's all apologists can do is talk. There's no substance to apologetics, and if you actually want to see a demonstration from an apologist of God's alleged power, you'll certainly be disappointed.
Why? Because Apologetics along with everything else is ineffective for converting anyone.
I cant find anywhere where it states Apologetics converts anyone.

Unless God changes the heart, Apologetics, the gospel or anything else is just talk.
 

e v e

Super Member
And you will wait until you are in a grave which is to late to see Him by then. The grave is not going to reveal God for His kingdom is within you. Luke 17:20-21. But you seek another kingdom to come just as man has been waiting for it from the beginning of time. The One you should be seeking is at your door this day.
youve no clue

im not waiting for what i have from Him
which is incredible

but for even the next thing…

or to you is everything over and no new thing ever happens?
 
Why? Because Apologetics along with everything else is ineffective for converting anyone.
I cant find anywhere where it states Apologetics converts anyone.

Unless God changes the heart, Apologetics, the gospel or anything else is just talk.
How can God "change the heart" if we have free will?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
How can God "change the heart" if we have free will?

For Christians who believe in free will (non-Calvinists), the answer is he can influence the heart (persuasion but not force), until the acceptance or rejection. These persuasions include the reasonableness and desirability of what is right. Once a decision is made, then full access to the heart is granted.
 
Read the bible
According to what I've read in the Bible, we have no free will but are God's pawns in his game of chess. The idea of free will was made up by Christian theologians long after the Bible was written to smooth over objections to the doctrine of God's love contradicting the reality of our suffering. If we understand God as the creation of the Bible writers, then we easily solve the question of why we suffer: A make-believe God cannot put an end to suffering.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
According to what I've read in the Bible, we have no free will but are God's pawns in his game of chess.

I believe a very strong case can be made for free will from the Bible. One sample argument is as follows:

 

Slyzr

Well-known member
According to what I've read in the Bible, we have no free will but are God's pawns in his game of chess. The idea of free will was made up by Christian theologians long after the Bible was written to smooth over objections to the doctrine of God's love contradicting the reality of our suffering. If we understand God as the creation of the Bible writers, then we easily solve the question of why we suffer: A make-believe God cannot put an end to suffering.

great thread ......
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
youve no clue

im not waiting for what i have from Him
which is incredible
Then why do you preach an Eden yet to come and be restored if He already has?
but for even the next thing…

or to you is everything over and no new thing ever happens?
It is finished just as Jesus said, there is nothing more that God or anyone can say or do to lead people to be restored and be in His same image by His manifestation in you. And either you have received and is like Him or you have not. If you are still in a learning process for that event, then, no' you have not been restored to Him by Him. For to be complete is to have His same mind and walk in it as He walks in it, pick up that cross and continue where Jesus left off by the same mind be in you who was in Christ jesus who was complete in the Father just as we all are who has the same from Him.

Perhaps it isnt I who doesnt have a clue !
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Hmmm...doubt of God's ability on display...

...coupled with a false assumption that man is free in his will (Man's "powerful ability" on display after casting doubt on God's ability) contrary to the words of the Christ of God in John 8:34ff.
So you dont have a choice to follow the way of Christ or not?

Im curious -- WHo made that choice for you if it is not up to you to do so?
 
I believe a very strong case can be made for free will from the Bible.
Actually, there are numerous cases of the violation of free will in the Bible. Yahweh rarely if ever asks for anybody's permission. For example, poor Mary was never asked to bear Jesus. But perhaps a better example of God using people as pawns appears in Exodus 4:21:
And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders that I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.
So Pharaoh's refusal to let the Hebrews go was not his own will but Yahweh's will imposed on him. The result of Pharaoh not being able to make his own decisions was catastrophic for Egypt.
 
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