Why is everybody picking on SDAs?

Pipiripi

Active member
I've asked you to make good on your promise to find the Investigative Judgment in the Bible. The only one fighting against you is yourself when you can't defend your beliefs.

I've already posted plenty on this topic from the only remnant person of Ellen, and she's dead now. The silence in your defense to it is deafening.
Your silence about your denominations has woken people up here. God has given Ellen G White and ALL the other pioneers the completely foundation of our beliefs, they (the new SDA today) was deceived by LeRoy Froom, a Jesuit like you. He have bring the false Trinity doctrine of your church, the Roman Catholic Church in the SDA Church.
But God has CALLED us to come out of Babylon, and now we are His true remnant people that can answered all questions BIBLICAL.

Thanks again to bring our Manual into this Forum.
 

Victor

Active member
Your silence about your denominations has woken people up here. God has given Ellen G White and ALL the other pioneers the completely foundation of our beliefs, they (the new SDA today) was deceived by LeRoy Froom, a Jesuit like you. He have bring the false Trinity doctrine of your church, the Roman Catholic Church in the SDA Church.
But God has CALLED us to come out of Babylon, and now we are His true remnant people that can answered all questions BIBLICAL.

Thanks again to bring our Manual into this Forum.
<crickets chirping> nothin' here but more ad hominem, a logical fallacy you seem to love an awful lot.
But what's missing is you still haven't delivered anything to defend the incompetent SDA pioneers.
You just can't seem to deliver on your promises.
 

John t

Super Member
true SDA CHURCH OF THE PIONEERS!!
Nobody needs your false opinion against the SDA church!!

How can you expect us to follow you when you post such confusion?

That post links you Millerites with the present day SDA church.

BTW, except for your say-so you have not provided any BIBLE-BASED EVIDENCE to demonstrate our so-called errors.

One thing more, you people don't know the pioneers believe, even many of the SDA Church members don't know their foundation. Otherwise they are stop believing in this false Trinity doctrine.

It is simple for us to do that. They are all dead, so we read stuff from and about them, most of which comes from another source than from the One, True and Holy God.

Before I forget. if you wish to discuss the doctrine of the Trinity, do not do so here. Use the Trinity forum.
 

Formersda

Active member
I believe in everything that Jesus Christ have said. Which word do you mean?
John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Can you show me in the bible where a believer is continually be investigate?
 

Pipiripi

Active member
How can you expect us to follow you when you post such confusion?

That post links you Millerites with the present day SDA church.

BTW, except for your say-so you have not provided any BIBLE-BASED EVIDENCE to demonstrate our so-called errors.



It is simple for us to do that. They are all dead, so we read stuff from and about them, most of which comes from another source than from the One, True and Holy God.

Before I forget. if you wish to discuss the doctrine of the Trinity, do not do so here. Use the Trinity forum.
I don't wish, the questions bring me to your 3 gods!!

The pioneers has spoken and written with their own hands.
Go and search for their handwriting, and stop following man teaching!!
 

Victor

Active member
I can answered all questions BIBLICAL!!
We're all waiting for you to find the Investigative Judgment in the Bible.
Don't forget how Ellen White defined it:
  • Convened only after 1844, 'it is...in 1844...to perform the work of investigative judgment'
  • Addresses only the 'professed people of God', and is not a general judgment
  • Convened in absentia of the accused, 'they will not be present in person'
  • The accused are judged according to the old covenant, 'The law of God is the standard'
  • Adventist soteriology is dependent on this alleged judgment, 'their names will be blotted out of the book of life'
 

John t

Super Member
Someone like me is someone that is ready to die for the TRUTH!!

To be on the safe side, I reported that as possible suicidal ideology.
If you REALLY meant that, then you should be talking to a mental health professional, and not posting on CARM.
At one time, I was a case manager for the seriously mentally ill, so I have the proper background to make that sort of recommendation.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
From Dr. Raymond Cottrell:

I first encountered problems with the traditional interpretation of Daniel 8:14, professionally, in the spring of 1955 during the process of editing comment on the Book of Daniel for volume 4 of the SDA Bible Commentary. As a work intended to meet the most exacting scholarly standards, we intended our comment to reflect the meaning obviously intended by the Bible writers. As an Adventist commentary it must also reflect, as accurately as possible, what Adventists believe and teach. But in Daniel 8 and 9 we found it hopelessly impossible to comply with both of these requirements.35​
In 1958 the Review and Herald Publishing Association needed new printing plates for the classic book Bible Readings, and it was decided to revise it where necessary to agree with the Commentary. Coming again to the Book of Daniel I determined to try once more to find a way to be absolutely faithful to both Daniel and the traditional Adventist interpretation of 8:14, but again found it impossible. I then formulated six questions regarding the Hebrew text of the passage and its context, which I submitted to every college teacher versed in Hebrew and every head of the religion department in all of our North American colleges---all personal friends of mine. Without exception they replied that there is no linguistic or contextual basis for the traditional Adventist interpretation of Daniel 8:14.36​
When the results of this questionnaire were called to the attention of the General Conference president, he and the Officers appointed the super-secret Committee on Problems in the Book of Daniel, of which I was a member. Meeting intermittently for five years (1961-1966), we considered 48 papers relative to Daniel 8 and 9, and in the spring of 1966 adjourned sine die, unable to reach a consensus.​

Contained in the Adventist commentary denotes exclusivity to that sect.
Admission that there is no basis for the Adventist interpretation within Scripture from those biased to support it indicates it isn't biblical.
Adjourning sine die shows the conclusion to sweep it under the rug and pretend the problem doesn't exist.
It is pure dishonesty on the part of the SDA church.
I have developed a well adjusted precedence of Spiritual Authority in Spiritual Truth from Spiritual Truth sources.

EGW, an Adventist verified messenger of GOD, is higher in precedence than Dr. Raymond Cottrell, an Adventist Theologian. So when a conflict of personal conflicting view points becomes apparent, I will side with EGW and their views of the Second Advent("pre-Second Advent Judgment") Investigative Judgment.

You are free to express your own views within CARM discussion rules and GOD's free will choice given to all men.

Scriptures is filled with Judgment Verbiage, I have studied enough to understand that Judgment Verbiage, aligns with the Second Advent("pre-Second Advent Judgment") Investigative Judgment.

In GOD's offer of free will choice to us, comes the opportunity of others to express their own misunderstandings about Judgment Verbiage.

AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

On this day, we all will be accountable for our choice of words, from our free will choice to believe.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
There isn't any prophecy of a Sunday law death decree. This too is exclusive to Adventism and is wholly unbiblical.
Fulfillment is the proof of prophecy in GOD's permissive will in unbelief choice in the present un-fulfillment.

To the shame of Sunday Keepers claiming to be Christians, in the fulfillment of GOD's power of love, is to die for others(When they are not in agreement with GOD's will.) and not murder them.

Your statement does fit my understanding of the self deceived, believing incorrect theology.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
This was not for you Beloved Daughter. It is for victor.

He is a Jesuit that are attacking all denominations believe. Ask him what is his denomination beliefs!! Maybe he can answered you.

God always have His church, so today He are reuniting His remnant people to preach the Three Angels Messages!!

My response. It was used waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before me. Jesus used it: Get thee behind me Satan.

Your organization is corrupted and even perverse. Nevertheless, Jesus can overcome and you may be saved yet. I'll pray for you.

I'm not a fan of Jesuits, but like any other organization there are some shining stars to behold. I've no reason not to believe him. He is orthodox in the areas that count and the Trinity is but one.

Another issue is their Clear Word Bible. made to order for SDA's

Here is another https://carm.org/seventh-day-adventism/the-clear-word-bible-and-the-sabbath/


Does CARM recommend the Seventh-day Adventist Church?​

by Matt Slick | Dec 5, 2008 | Seventh Day Adventism, World Religions
CARM does not recommend attending the Seventh-day Adventist church. There are too many problems within Seventh-day Adventism to recommend it as a safe and healthy church. Though there are Seventh-day Adventist groups that are within orthodoxy, there are too many of them that are not. In fact, many people consider Seventh-day Adventism to be a non-Christian cult. It either is or is not dependent upon which particular Church in that SDA movement is teaching things that violate the essentials of the Christian faith.

One of the problems with Seventh-day Adventism is Saturday worship. They are certainly free to worship on Saturday. That is not unbiblical. However, the problem is when any Seventh-day Adventist group asserts that the proper day of worship is Saturday, not Sunday. The early church practiced worship on Sunday and the scriptures mention the church gathering on Sunday, the same day Jesus rose:

  • The Christians also heard a message from Paul on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).
    • Note: the reference is until midnight which is not the Jewish method of measuring days, but the Roman system.
  • Paul instructed the churches to put aside contributions on the first day of the week (1 Cor. 16:2).
Furthermore, Romans 14:1-12 speaks of our freedom in Christ, particularly our freedom to worship on any day we choose.

CARM cannot recommend any church which would openly deny the biblical doctrine of predestination (in contradiction to Eph. 1:1-11), deny the doctrine of the immortality of the soul (in contradiction to Luke 16:19-31; Matt. 25:46), and deny eternal hellfire (in contradiction to Rev. 14:11). Nor can we recommend a church that affirms that Jesus is Michael the Archangel,1 and that the wicked are annihilated (in contradiction to Luke 16:19-31; Matt. 25:46).
 
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Buzzard

Well-known member
My response. It was used waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before me. Jesus used it: Get thee behind me Satan.

Your organization is corrupted and even perverse. Nevertheless, Jesus can overcome and you may be saved yet. I'll pray for you.

I'm not a fan of Jesuits, but like any other organization there are some shining stars to behold. I've no reason not to believe him. He is orthodox in the areas that count and the Trinity is but one.

He is orthodox in the areas that count and the Trinity is but one.

-----------------------

orthodox is merely believing espousing, holding what the Majority has decided as truth
Just so you know
The Wise Man says
of all the leaders, pastors, teachers ect ect ect
only 1 out of a 1,000 will know and understand
and he wasn't too sure of that 1
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
I believe in everything that Jesus Christ have said. Which word do you mean?

No, I don't think so. All I have seen from you is ranting, condescending and arrogant statements regarding your supposed remnant.

I've looked and looked and I haven't seen Ellen White's name in the Bible. Nor any discussion of investigative judgments.

At this rate, you should shut the Clear Word Bible and open something more orthodox such as the NKJV, ESV, NASB. Jesus never said a word about following any SDA nonsense.

Beyond that, you should reconsider how you approach other people. When people get pushed, they tend to push back.

Both Peter and Paul did not allow a woman to teach men. I'm guessing that Ellen White was/is not transgendered. She (the proper pronoun) is/was a woman. She had no business teaching anyone but other women. We know also that Paul did allow the wife of Aquilla to assist her husband in teaching. But no women teaching men.

These are Biblical fundamentals.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Your silence about your denominations has woken people up here. God has given Ellen G White and ALL the other pioneers the completely foundation of our beliefs, they (the new SDA today) was deceived by LeRoy Froom, a Jesuit like you. He have bring the false Trinity doctrine of your church, the Roman Catholic Church in the SDA Church.
But God has CALLED us to come out of Babylon, and now we are His true remnant people that can answered all questions BIBLICAL.

Thanks again to bring our Manual into this Forum.

God did no such thing. If you stop insulting people and listen, you'll be able to hear His voice clearly. It doesn't come from man-made nonsense. Only the Bible is instructive.

Just so you understand, John the Revelator penned Revelation.

Revelation 22:18-19

18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

You must have missed that part of John's revelation.
 

Common Tater

Active member
I have developed a well adjusted precedence of Spiritual Authority in Spiritual Truth from Spiritual Truth sources.

EGW, an Adventist verified messenger of GOD, is higher in precedence than Dr. Raymond Cottrell, an Adventist Theologian. So when a conflict of personal conflicting view points becomes apparent, I will side with EGW and their views of the Second Advent("pre-Second Advent Judgment") Investigative Judgment.

You are free to express your own views within CARM discussion rules and GOD's free will choice given to all men.

Scriptures is filled with Judgment Verbiage, I have studied enough to understand that Judgment Verbiage, aligns with the Second Advent("pre-Second Advent Judgment") Investigative Judgment.

In GOD's offer of free will choice to us, comes the opportunity of others to express their own misunderstandings about Judgment Verbiage.

AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

On this day, we all will be accountable for our choice of words, from our free will choice to believe.

Yours in Christ, Michael
On several occasions, you have pointed out that the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible. Please show where the term "Investigative Judgement" is used in the Scriptures.
 

Victor

Active member
I have developed a well adjusted precedence of Spiritual Authority in Spiritual Truth from Spiritual Truth sources.
This amounts to bloviation, and nothing but bloviation.

Bloviation is a style of empty, pompous, political speech which originated in Ohio and was used by US President Warren G. Harding, who described it as "the art of speaking for as long as the occasion warrants, and saying nothing". His opponent, William Gibbs McAdoo, described "the impression of an army of pompous phrases moving over the landscape in search of an idea."

EGW, an Adventist verified messenger of GOD, is higher in precedence than Dr. Raymond Cottrell, an Adventist Theologian.
A specious claim that "EGW" (why are you hesitant to use her name?) was a messenger of God is wishful thinking on your part. Assigning a hierarchy based on a delusional view of her alleged inspiration is destructive to your thought process. Dr. Cottrell was joined by nearly the entire linguistic staff at the Adventist university level who all tried to substantiate Ellen's model based on Daniel 8:14 and uniformly found it impossible to do so.

Such a cloud of witnesses can't be dismissed by your wishful thinking.

Even when she was alive, SDA elder A.F. Ballenger contacted Ellen White in 1905 about the mechanical process she posited in the heavenly sanctuary, that couldn't be reconciled with Scripture.
Ellen White couldn't defend her own model. Instead, her response was wholly character assassination against Ballenger for even suggesting the Investigative Judgment was unbiblical.

If the theories that Brother Ballenger presents were received, they would lead many to depart from the faith. They would counterwork the truths upon which the people of God have stood for the past fifty years. I am bidden to say in the name of the Lord that Elder Ballenger is following a false light. The Lord has not given him the message that he is bearing regarding the sanctuary service. Ms62-1905 (May 24, 1905) par. 17

That's two counts against Ellen's model. Even Ellen couldn't defend Ellen's model.

So when a conflict of personal conflicting view points becomes apparent, I will side with EGW and their views of the Second Advent("pre-Second Advent Judgment") Investigative Judgment.
Who is the "their" you refer to? The Investigative Judgment was fabricated to apologize for a non-event in 1844, nothing more. You also misunderstand the entire discourse when you reduce it to "personal conflicting view points". There isn't anything "personal" about appealing to Scripture as the final arbiter of truth and finding Ellen White noncompliant.

Scriptures is filled with Judgment Verbiage, I have studied enough to understand that Judgment Verbiage, aligns with the Second Advent("pre-Second Advent Judgment") Investigative Judgment.

In GOD's offer of free will choice to us, comes the opportunity of others to express their own misunderstandings about Judgment Verbiage.
Here's the model Ellen fabricated in the Great Controversy. Go find it in Scripture.
  • Convened only after 1844, 'it is...in 1844...to perform the work of investigative judgment'
  • Addresses only the 'professed people of God', and is not a general judgment
  • Convened in absentia of the accused, 'they will not be present in person'
  • The accused are judged according to the old covenant, 'The law of God is the standard'
  • Adventist soteriology is dependent on this alleged judgment, 'their names will be blotted out of the book of life'
We're not interested in bloviation. Put up or shut up.


AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

On this day, we all will be accountable for our choice of words, from our free will choice to believe.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Concerning the mechanical process Ballenger found problems with, Jesus issued a new covenant commandment that counters Ellen's claim that Jesus entered the inner room of the sanctuary in 1844:

Matthew 24:21
Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

Why does Ellen White demand that you disobey the commandments of God?
Wishful thinking is your delusion.
 

Victor

Active member
Fulfillment is the proof of prophecy
Error line one: There is no such prophecy to begin with.
To the shame of Sunday Keepers claiming to be Christians
Error line two: The notion of a "Sunday Keeper" relies on RCC theology that you haven't substantiated. It isn't a concept that is found within the Protestant Reformation, and I have quoted this before:

For those who judge that by the authority of the Church the observance of the Lord’s Day instead of the Sabbath-day was ordained as a thing necessary, do greatly err. Scripture has abrogated the Sabbath-day; for it teaches that, since the Gospel has been revealed, all the ceremonies of Moses can be omitted. And yet, because it was necessary to appoint a certain day, that the people might know when they ought to come together, it appears that the Church designated the Lord’s Day for this purpose; and this day seems to have been chosen all the more for this additional reason, that men might have an example of Christian liberty, and might know that the keeping neither of the Sabbath nor of any other day is necessary.​
Your statement does fit my understanding of the self deceived, believing incorrect theology.
You have the option of supporting your thesis reliant on Roman Catholicism, or dispensing with your delusion regarding "Sunday Keepers".

They refer to the Sabbath-day as having been changed into the Lord’s Day, contrary to the Decalog, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath-day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!​
But concerning this question it is taught on our part that bishops have no power to decree anything against the Gospel. The Canonical Laws teach the same thing (Dist. IX). Now, it is against Scripture to establish or require the observance of any traditions, to the end that by such observance we may make satisfaction for sins, or merit grace and righteousness.​

I encourage questioning minds to absorb Article 28 of the Augsburg Confession in its entirety. It points out the error of Roman Catholicism and embraces the liberty Christ gave us in the Gospel.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
I have developed a well adjusted precedence of Spiritual Authority in Spiritual Truth from Spiritual Truth sources.
This amounts to bloviation, and nothing but bloviation.
Bloviation is a style of empty, pompous, political speech which originated in Ohio and was used by US President Warren G. Harding, who described it as "the art of speaking for as long as the occasion warrants, and saying nothing". His opponent, William Gibbs McAdoo, described "the impression of an army of pompous phrases moving over the landscape in search of an idea."
AV Mt 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

This is the Victor, I remember. When Jesus judges Sunday Laws(and their penalties) made by men, will Jesus side with "the commandment of God" ???

AV Mt 15:2-9 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to [his] father or [his] mother, [It is] a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 [Ye] hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

When Jesus ignored Pharisee made rules in precedence to GOD made commandments, did Jesus 'bloviat'e with Jesus' own mouth ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
EGW, an Adventist verified messenger of GOD, is higher in precedence than Dr. Raymond Cottrell, an Adventist Theologian.
A specious claim that "EGW" (why are you hesitant to use her name?) was a messenger of God is wishful thinking on your part. Assigning a hierarchy based on a delusional view of her alleged inspiration is destructive to your thought process. Dr. Cottrell was joined by nearly the entire linguistic staff at the Adventist university level who all tried to substantiate Ellen's model based on Daniel 8:14 and uniformly found it impossible to do so.

Such a cloud of witnesses can't be dismissed by your wishful thinking.

Even when she was alive, SDA elder A.F. Ballenger contacted Ellen White in 1905 about the mechanical process she posited in the heavenly sanctuary, that couldn't be reconciled with Scripture.
Ellen White couldn't defend her own model. Instead, her response was wholly character assassination against Ballenger for even suggesting the Investigative Judgment was unbiblical.

If the theories that Brother Ballenger presents were received, they would lead many to depart from the faith. They would counterwork the truths upon which the people of God have stood for the past fifty years. I am bidden to say in the name of the Lord that Elder Ballenger is following a false light. The Lord has not given him the message that he is bearing regarding the sanctuary service. Ms62-1905 (May 24, 1905) par. 17

That's two counts against Ellen's model. Even Ellen couldn't defend Ellen's model.
"(why are you hesitant to use her name?)", Between common usage in this forum and not that fast at typing. But Kudos to you for being polite with her name.

AV 1C 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

"That's two counts against Ellen's model. Even Ellen couldn't defend Ellen's model.", Most Prophets of GOD, could not defend GOD against the foolishness of men and were murdered for it. So what is new, in that attitude then ???

AV Mt 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

"Such a cloud of witnesses can't be dismissed by your wishful thinking.", GOD does not need a majority to be Right and Holy. I hope this becomes clear, before it is too late for the majority.

AV Re 16:4-7 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.

In the time of the end, murder of "saints and prophets" will be rewarded with this plague, as GOD's Judgment in Omniscience. So who will you agree with, to be murdered then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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