Why is everybody picking on SDAs?

[Victor]

How can Ellen White goes against God laws, and she self was keeping the 10 commandments!! Her visions was with Satan and write everything that Satan show her against Satan himself!!!! That is what you are saying!! All her writings and quotes was given to her by Satan. Satan was dividing himself by playing God, and show Ellen White in Heaven and talk to her in heaven. That is Victor understanding about prophecies in the end times!!

Summary, exactly as you wrote it:
Ellen White... All her writings and quotes was given to her by Satan.
yup.

The question of "how can..." <fill in the blank> is immaterial when it a fact already demonstrated. Why Ellen White advocated disobedience goes beyond the discussion. The meat of the matter is better addressed by explaining why one would follow her disobedience.

Millions understand the Sanctuary Doctrine better than you do, the #1 doctrinal reason they left Adventism. I don't think you are able to fathom this reality.

 

[Pipiripi]

Summary, exactly as you wrote it:
Ellen White... All her writings and quotes was given to her by Satan.
yup.

The question of "how can..." <fill in the blank> is immaterial when it a fact already demonstrated. Why Ellen White advocated disobedience goes beyond the discussion. The meat of the matter is better addressed by explaining why one would follow her disobedience.

Millions understand the Sanctuary Doctrine better than you do, the #1 doctrinal reason they left Adventism. I don't think you are able to fathom this reality.

Sure!! billions of you are walking in the wide road!! but we few are walking in the narrow street!! Thanks

 

[Pipiripi]

What is the name of your god holy spirit Victor?

 

[Buzzard]

Here I am.
To this day you still haven't responded to why the Sanctuary Doctrine demands that you break the commandments of God. I laid it out for you in previous posts, so there isn't any confusion about it and no one has been able to defend it from Scripture since it was invented by the SDA "pioneers". The commandment of God regarding it in Matthew 24:26 is clear.

I must have missed that post
what commandment or instruction of Christ does the SDA Sanctuary Doctrine violate
not Matt.24:26 by a long shot
"26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you,
Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:
behold,
he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."

Secret Chambers are the Closets he referred to in Luke 12:3

For there is nothing covered,
that shall not be revealed;
neither hid,
that shall not be known.

3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness
shall be heard in the light;
and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets
shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

these the secret chambers; would be those Confessional Booths of the RCC
he; Christ, is not there in any form nor fashion

Wherefore if they shall say unto you,
Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:

He is not in the Dry and Desolate Fields and Vineyards of the RCC either

Deut 32:32
For their vine is of the vine of Sodom,
and of the fields of Gomorrah:
their grapes are grapes of gall,
their clusters are bitter:

33 Their wine is the poison of dragons,
and the cruel venom of asps.

 

[Victor]

I must have missed that post
what commandment or instruction of Christ does the SDA Sanctuary Doctrine violate
not Matt.24:26 by a long shot
"26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you,
Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:
behold,
he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."

I will review the posts for Pipiripi's benefit, as there have been many that have gone unanswered.

But in response to you, Yes - Matthew 24:26 is pertinent to the SDA Sanctuary Doctrine. Review this quote from Ellen White:

I will now write you the vision God gave me on the Sabbath, the twenty-fourth of March. We had a glorious meeting. I was taken off in vision.​

I saw the commandments of God and shut door could not be separated. I saw the time for the commandments of God to shine out to His people was when the door was opening in the inner apartment of the heavenly sanctuary in 1844. Then Jesus rose up and shut the door in the outer apartment and opened the door in the inner apartment and passed into the Most Holy Place, and the faith of Israel now reaches within the second veil where Jesus now stands by the ark. I saw that Jesus had opened the door in the Most Holy Place and no man can shut it; and that since Jesus had opened the door in the Most Holy Place the commandments have been shining out and God has been testing His people on the holy Sabbath.​

—Letter 5, 1849, pp. 1-3​

Manuscript Releases, vol. 5 [Nos. 260-346], Page 94​

The theme of the Investigative Judgment purports Jesus changing location in an area that can't be verified in 1844. That area is alternately referred to as the inner apartment or the inner room. The whole doctrine is a poor excuse to explain a non-event in 1844 and save face for the Adventists. The providential commandment issued by Jesus looks down the ages to the events prior to His coming to prevent deception of His elect. It should be no surprise that Jesus foresaw the SDA church and issued a warning to reject their unbiblical doctrine revolving around 1844.

Secret Chambers are the Closets he referred to in Luke 12:3

For there is nothing covered,
that shall not be revealed;
neither hid,
that shall not be known.

3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness
shall be heard in the light;
and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets
shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

these the secret chambers; would be those Confessional Booths of the RCC
he; Christ, is not there in any form nor fashion

Wherefore if they shall say unto you,
Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:

He is not in the Dry and Desolate Fields and Vineyards of the RCC either

Deut 32:32
For their vine is of the vine of Sodom,
and of the fields of Gomorrah:
their grapes are grapes of gall,
their clusters are bitter:

33 Their wine is the poison of dragons,
and the cruel venom of asps.

That's an interesting take on the RCC. Several have noticed the similarities between purgatory and the Investigative Judgment. That the RCC interferes with the one Mediator we have between God and man is enough for me.

 

[Victor]

Sure!! billions of you are walking in the wide road!! but we few are walking in the narrow street!! Thanks

It is a mistake to claim the SDA church ever had a membership anywhere near a billion. I noticed too that this is a variant of argumentum ad populum, in an effort to play a numbers game to validate a position that can't be supported by any other means. Appealing to a logical fallacy concedes you have nothing to defend yourself with.

Moving right along...

I have reviewed some of the history of this thread. There are a growing number of posts that attempt to draw you out of the mistakes that you make, and in each instance you have ignored them and often times replied with red herrings and emotional pity party accusations that we "don't understand" what you write. Yes, we do. Take a look at the history by scrolling through the thread, some of which is summarized here:

Post 41 - the origin of the Sabbath and why we meet on Sunday as a matter of convenient tradition.
47 - asks you why God waited until Moses to ordain the Sabbath.
110 - this is the long post from The Great Controversy that defines the Investigative Judgment and presents the 5-bullet summary that can't be found in Scripture anywhere.
157 - your post claiming you can show the Investigative Judgment from the Bible (you never did).
170 and 187 - repeat the bullet points from The Great Controversy for you to find in the Bible (you never did).
169 - explains the 3 angels message for others to see how abhorrent the doctrine is.
221 - responds to your post quoting Ellen White to support the Investigative Judgment, but still unable to find it in the Bible.
236 - this is Beloved Daughter's explanation of the trinity doctrine - which was summarily dismissed by you.
245 - responding to your oft-cited appeal to Galatians 1:1-10 'another gospel' to expand on what the 'another gospel' is, and how you fell for it.
250 - explains why your oft-cited appeal to Revelation 12:17 and 14:12 don't apply to you.
258 - explains Matthew 24:26 to you and how the SDA Sanctuary Doctrine violates this commandment of God.
278 - counters your claim of the seal of God having any relation to the "4th command".
282 - points out how the new covenant makes the first obsolete.

The manner that you've responded to these posts is absolutely absurd.

 

[Common Tater]

I will review the posts for Pipiripi's benefit, as there have been many that have gone unanswered.

But in response to you, Yes - Matthew 24:26 is pertinent to the SDA Sanctuary Doctrine. Review this quote from Ellen White:

I will now write you the vision God gave me on the Sabbath, the twenty-fourth of March. We had a glorious meeting. I was taken off in vision.​

I saw the commandments of God and shut door could not be separated. I saw the time for the commandments of God to shine out to His people was when the door was opening in the inner apartment of the heavenly sanctuary in 1844. Then Jesus rose up and shut the door in the outer apartment and opened the door in the inner apartment and passed into the Most Holy Place, and the faith of Israel now reaches within the second veil where Jesus now stands by the ark. I saw that Jesus had opened the door in the Most Holy Place and no man can shut it; and that since Jesus had opened the door in the Most Holy Place the commandments have been shining out and God has been testing His people on the holy Sabbath.​

—Letter 5, 1849, pp. 1-3​

Manuscript Releases, vol. 5 [Nos. 260-346], Page 94​

The theme of the Investigative Judgment purports Jesus changing location in an area that can't be verified in 1844. That area is alternately referred to as the inner apartment or the inner room. The whole doctrine is a poor excuse to explain a non-event in 1844 and save face for the Adventists. The providential commandment issued by Jesus looks down the ages to the events prior to His coming to prevent deception of His elect. It should be no surprise that Jesus foresaw the SDA church and issued a warning to reject their unbiblical doctrine revolving around 1844.

That's an interesting take on the RCC. Several have noticed the similarities between purgatory and the Investigative Judgment. That the RCC interferes with the one Mediator we have between God and man is enough for me.

What about the fact that Adventism teaches that the books were not opened until Jesus went into the Most Holy Place on October 22, 1844? But they also teach that Moses, Elijah, and Enoch were already in heaven. How were they let into heaven prior to the Investigative Judgement? And what would have happened if any of them had been found wanting once the books were opened? Would God have sent them back? It seems that the Adventist belief that those three were already in heaven refutes the Adventist belief in an "Investigative Judgement".

 

[Victor]

What about the fact that Adventism teaches that the books were not opened until Jesus went into the Most Holy Place on October 22, 1844? But they also teach that Moses, Elijah, and Enoch were already in heaven. How were they let into heaven prior to the Investigative Judgement? And what would have happened if any of them had been found wanting once the books were opened? Would God have sent them back? It seems that the Adventist belief that those three were already in heaven refutes the Adventist belief in an "Investigative Judgement".

These are good observations and shouldn't be dismissed, but I was answering Buzzard's question about the relevance of the commandment given in Matthew 24:26. Obedience to this alone counters the whole thesis of the Investigative Judgment from its very inception.

 

[DrPatti]

Pipiripi wrote; . Aslong my brethren and sisters keep believing in the Trinity doctrine, they are far from home.

Two questions:
1. What, exactly, is this "Trinity doctrine" of which you warn?
2. What, exactly, do you have against it?

 

[DrPatti]

What about the fact that Adventism teaches that the books were not opened until Jesus went into the Most Holy Place on October 22, 1844? But they also teach that Moses, Elijah, and Enoch were already in heaven. How were they let into heaven prior to the Investigative Judgement? And what would have happened if any of them had been found wanting once the books were opened? Would God have sent them back? It seems that the Adventist belief that those three were already in heaven refutes the Adventist belief in an "Investigative Judgement".

Hey, CT! Great to see you again!

Here is one of the things I find most despicable about the IJ theory: That there is some place in the universe "more holy" than the right hand of the Father, the very Presence of God Himself!

We are told very clearly that Christ ascended to the Father.

Heb 9:24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made by hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us

 

[CharismaticLady]

What about the fact that Adventism teaches that the books were not opened until Jesus went into the Most Holy Place on October 22, 1844? But they also teach that Moses, Elijah, and Enoch were already in heaven. How were they let into heaven prior to the Investigative Judgement? And what would have happened if any of them had been found wanting once the books were opened? Would God have sent them back? It seems that the Adventist belief that those three were already in heaven refutes the Adventist belief in an "Investigative Judgement".

I'm not an Adventist, but am a student of the Bible, and those three you mentioned were all with God, just as Christians are when we die. The body is a separate issue. Remember Moses and Elijah were with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration before Jesus died. And I believe all the Old Testament saints were resurrected from the Old Covenant when Jesus did and are now physically in heaven in their new bodies. And don't forget Michael argued with Satan over the body of Moses in the book of Jude.

 

[SDAchristian]

Two questions:
1. What, exactly, is this "Trinity doctrine" of which you warn?
2. What, exactly, do you have against it?

@Pipiripi does not appear to be a member any more.

I actually have been working on this. Are you interested in my take on your questions ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
Everyone with issues concerning GOD's bodily presence needs to speak up !!!

Hey, CT! Great to see you again!
Here is one of the things I find most despicable about the IJ theory: That there is some place in the universe "more holy" than the right hand of the Father, the very Presence of God Himself!
We are told very clearly that Christ ascended to the Father.
Heb 9:24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made by hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us

What is GOD's Omnipresence then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:

The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. {Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}

This is not the first time I posted this.

@pythons, Maybe we need to finish our discussion, on that thread. BTW, @Common Tater, you were there too.

There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle that the Lord set up and not humans. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. At His ascension, He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and, began His intercessory ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the holy place of the earthly sanctuary. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Lev. 16; Num. 14:34; Ezek. 4:6; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Heb. 1:3; 2:16, 17; 4:14-16; 8:1-5; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; Rev. 8:3-5; 11:19; 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:11, 12.)
{Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}

For reference.

What about the fact that Adventism teaches that the books were not opened until Jesus went into the Most Holy Place on October 22, 1844? But they also teach that Moses, Elijah, and Enoch were already in heaven. How were they let into heaven prior to the Investigative Judgement? And what would have happened if any of them had been found wanting once the books were opened? Would God have sent them back? It seems that the Adventist belief that those three were already in heaven refutes the Adventist belief in an "Investigative Judgement".

Your understanding of Investigative Judgment versus your understanding of GOD's Omniscience is in spiritual conflict.

So the BIG question is, Who is really needing the Investigative Judgment, GOD or "heavenly intelligences" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[pythons]

Prologue:

@pythons, Maybe we need to finish our discussion, on that thread. BTW, @Common Tater, you were there too.

For reference.

Your understanding of Investigative Judgment versus your understanding of GOD's Omniscience is in spiritual conflict.

So the BIG question is, Who is really needing the Investigative Judgment, GOD or "heavenly intelligences" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

As if God's ways need to be justified or approved of - by "heavenly intelligences". The Sanctuary Doctrine was simply a way for the anti-Trinitarians to save face as the anti Trinitarians were the only folks that accepted it.

 

[Victor]

Prologue:

@pythons, Maybe we need to finish our discussion, on that thread. BTW, @Common Tater, you were there too.

For reference.

Your understanding of Investigative Judgment versus your understanding of GOD's Omniscience is in spiritual conflict.

So the BIG question is, Who is really needing the Investigative Judgment, GOD or "heavenly intelligences" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

Searching for a reason for a judgment that doesn't exist is a colossal waste of time.

 

[Common Tater]

Prologue:

@pythons, Maybe we need to finish our discussion, on that thread. BTW, @Common Tater, you were there too.

For reference.

Your understanding of Investigative Judgment versus your understanding of GOD's Omniscience is in spiritual conflict.

So the BIG question is, Who is really needing the Investigative Judgment, GOD or "heavenly intelligences" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

No, my understanding of the IJ is just fine and is what I was taught in my youth in the church and in the schools. Adventism has tried to make the IJ more palatable over the course of the last few decades by claiming that it is because God needs to justify Himself before the universe. The problem with that is that it ignores the fact that God is sovereign and need not justify Himself to anyone. God does not rule based upon His popularity. I suggest you read the book of Job.

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV Dn 8:13-14 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake, How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

AV Hb 10:29-31 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

"trodden under foot"/{Works}, Is a spiritual metaphor, that is part of understanding GOD's Point Of View. Works are ALWAYS a reflection of spiritual viewpoint. And Works will judge the self deceived.

---

AV Re 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

GOD has compassionate love for those who were loyal in the beginning. But go ahead and retain your opinions.

As if God's ways need to be justified or approved of - by "heavenly intelligences". The Sanctuary Doctrine was simply a way for the anti-Trinitarians to save face as the anti Trinitarians were the only folks that accepted it.

AV Jn 8:38-45 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me{Works}, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father{Works}. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me{Works}: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do{Works}. He was a murderer{Works} from the beginning, and abode not in the truth{Works}, because there is no truth in him{Works}. When he speaketh a lie{Works}, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar{Works}, and the father of it{Works}. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not{Works}.

You are entitled to express your opinion(s), within the rules of CARM. Oh no, look at that can of spiritual worms, opened by Jesus for the Literal Pharisees and spiritual pharisees !!!

---

AV Isa 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

GOD's Free Will Choice benefits, during the end time of sin, will run out for many.

AV Mt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

There will be no opinions against the Truth, after the time of sin is over.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV Jsh 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;

The choices of many, are not that obvious to those who make those same choices.

Searching for a reason for a judgment that doesn't exist is a colossal waste of time.

You are entitled to express your opinion(s), within the rules of CARM.

So you do not understand GOD's reasons of Free Will Choice to all created sentient beings ???

Is GOD wasting everyone's time now ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Victor]

Prologue:
AV Jsh 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;

The choices of many, are not that obvious to those who make those same choices.

You are entitled to express your opinion(s), within the rules of CARM.

So you do not understand GOD's reasons of Free Will Choice to all created sentient beings ???

Is GOD wasting everyone's time now ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

Yours is an isolated opinion that is devoid of biblical support. The Sanctuary Doctrine and the Investigative Judgment that is parcel to it remains the leading doctrinal reason for Adventists leaving the SDA cult. It demands that you violate the commandments of God, as we have discussed before.

​

The [sanctuary] doctrine is, to me, the most colossal, psychological, face-saving phenomenon in religious history. ... We personally do not believe that there is even a suspicion of a verse in Scripture to sustain such a peculiar position, and we further believe that any effort to establish it is stale, flat, and unprofitable. ... [It is] unimportant and almost naïve.​

Donald G. Barnhouse, ed., Eternity, 7:67, September 1956, pp. 6-7, 43-45.​