Why is everybody picking on SDAs?

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Re 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

GOD has compassionate love for those who were loyal in the beginning. But go ahead and retain your opinions.
No, my understanding of the IJ is just fine and is what I was taught in my youth in the church and in the schools. Adventism has tried to make the IJ more palatable over the course of the last few decades by claiming that it is because God needs to justify Himself before the universe. The problem with that is that it ignores the fact that God is sovereign and need not justify Himself to anyone. God does not rule based upon His popularity. I suggest you read the book of Job.
Some misunderstandings that are almost timeless ...

"I suggest you read the book of Job.", Please start a new thread with an appropriate starter question for your hinted idea then.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Yours is an isolated opinion that is devoid of biblical support. The Sanctuary Doctrine and the Investigative Judgment that is parcel to it remains the leading doctrinal reason for Adventists leaving the SDA cult. It demands that you violate the commandments of God, as we have discussed before.
The [sanctuary] doctrine is, to me, the most colossal, psychological, face-saving phenomenon in religious history. ... We personally do not believe that there is even a suspicion of a verse in Scripture to sustain such a peculiar position, and we further believe that any effort to establish it is stale, flat, and unprofitable. ... [It is] unimportant and almost naïve.​
Donald G. Barnhouse, ed., Eternity, 7:67, September 1956, pp. 6-7, 43-45.​
"Donald G. Barnhouse" is entitled to his OWN('to me') opinion as well. Duh, for giving me, evidence in place.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Victor

Active member
"Donald G. Barnhouse" is entitled to his OWN('to me') opinion as well. Duh, for giving me, evidence in place.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Ask yourself:
  • Why is it that no one in the entire history of the SDA church can find the Investigative Judgment remotely hinted at in Scripture?
  • What makes you think that God would demand anyone to violate a new-covenant commandment He gave to us?
It remains that the Sanctuary Doctrine is a colossal face-saving phenomenon concocted to justify a non-event in 1844. It is unique to the SDA cult because no one else accepts it as anything more than narcissistic pablum.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Yours is an isolated opinion that is devoid of biblical support. The Sanctuary Doctrine and the Investigative Judgment that is parcel to it remains the leading doctrinal reason for Adventists leaving the SDA cult. It demands that you violate the commandments of God, as we have discussed before.
The [sanctuary] doctrine is, to me, the most colossal, psychological, face-saving phenomenon in religious history. ... We personally do not believe that there is even a suspicion of a verse in Scripture to sustain such a peculiar position, and we further believe that any effort to establish it is stale, flat, and unprofitable. ... [It is] unimportant and almost naïve.​
Donald G. Barnhouse, ed., Eternity, 7:67, September 1956, pp. 6-7, 43-45.​
Who is Barnhouse ???????
 

John t

Super Member
Who is Barnhouse ???????

The Reverend Donald J Barnhouse. He was a world famous scholar, and may have been a professor at Westminster seminary. He pastored 10th Presbyterian church in Philadelphia. I saw him once before he died.

His books are always a good read.

Yours is an isolated opinion that is devoid of biblical support. The Sanctuary Doctrine and the Investigative Judgment that is parcel to it remains the leading doctrinal reason for Adventists leaving the SDA cult. It demands that you violate the commandments of God, as we have discussed before.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Mt 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

"Yours in Christ, Michael", The criteria you use to exclude me as GOD's people, GOD can and will use to judge back to you, in Omniscience. You are aware, that qualifies as blasphemy, as judging in the place of GOD ??? Blasphemy coming to judge for GOD, in a day of rest too !!!

Ad hominem is against a person, what doctrine are you using for the strikeout text ???
Ask yourself:
  • Why is it that no one in the entire history of the SDA church can find the Investigative Judgment remotely hinted at in Scripture?
  • What makes you think that God would demand anyone to violate a new-covenant commandment He gave to us?
It remains that the Sanctuary Doctrine is a colossal face-saving phenomenon concocted to justify a non-event in 1844. It is unique to the SDA cult because no one else accepts it as anything more than narcissistic pablum.
AV Jn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

"Why is it that no one in the entire history of the SDA church can find the Investigative Judgment remotely hinted at in Scripture?", Your opinion wrapped in a question. It seems to me, the serpent did that to Eve, as well.

You could do you own reading(Here: https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/746.6) and offer a better synopsis of the errors you found ???

Your hint: Azazel goat as contrasted to the LORD's goat. Both goats(literally died, one murdered, and the other natural causes) are literal types of future anti-types. Hint: Jesus died once.

"What makes you think that God would demand anyone to violate a new-covenant commandment He gave to us?", Another of your opinion wrapped in a question. Please takes this back to my another thread with a new post, Okay ???

"It remains that the Sanctuary Doctrine is a colossal face-saving phenomenon concocted to justify a non-event in 1844. It is unique to the SDA cult because no one else accepts it as anything more than narcissistic pablum.", Still your opinion to offer to others to believe.

AV Re 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

GOD has compassionate love for those who were loyal in the beginning. But go ahead and retain your opinions.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
Last edited:

SDAchristian

Well-known member
The Reverend Donald J Barnhouse. He was a world famous scholar, and may have been a professor at Westminster seminary. He pastored 10th Presbyterian church in Philadelphia. I saw him once before he died.

His books are always a good read.
You have not 'Like'd, @Victor's post yet. Share any thoughts on why ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Jsh 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. 16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;


Yours in Christ, Michael
Michael;
I suggest you put away all the "Many Books" of Adventism
and do some real serious study in Moses;
you so badly need it;

you come here all puffed up, telling us how you have all this
"insider information" and know things no one else knows;
you are another Noah, the ONLY prophet God revealed the coming flood to;
called to build another Ark
another
Elijah, John the Baptist; to prepare the way of the 2nd coming
---- but ---
your post prove you are merely "Parroting" the words of your teachers;
groveling in the dirt at the feet of the "McNuttlys of Adventism
just a "Boot Licker"
has he let you kiss his ring yet ?????


FYI;
the Gods of these Amorites were men Paul warns of in Colossians
Col.2:18

For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you,
and for them at Laodicea,
and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
..
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday,
or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come;
but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility
and worshipping of angels,
intruding into those things which he hath not seen,
vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,​
Col.2:16

Freedom From Human Rules​

Col.2:16
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink,
or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you.
Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen
;
they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.

19 They have lost connection with the head,
from whom the whole body,
supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews,
grows as God causes it to grow
.​

How many million words in great detail did EGW write did you say
maybe Michael can tell us
 
Last edited:

Common Tater

Active member
Prologue:
AV Re 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

GOD has compassionate love for those who were loyal in the beginning. But go ahead and retain your opinions.

Some misunderstandings that are almost timeless ...

"I suggest you read the book of Job.", Please start a new thread with an appropriate starter question for your hinted idea then.

Yours in Christ, Michael
This whole vindicating God before the universe was formalized into the church doctrine when they updated the SDA Adventist Beliefs to 27 in 1980. I suggest you read the previous statements, specifically Belief #16, in the previous iteration, the 1931 Statement of 22 Fundamental Beliefs.

By the way, let me point you again to the Book of Job, chapters 38-42. God is sovereign and does not need to justify himself to anyone. The thought that God serves at the pleasure of created beings, that He could somehow be found to be unjust, again, by created beings is ludicrous. There is no starter question for a hinted idea in Job. God makes it plain that He does not need to explain Himself or His decisions to us. He is God.

I see you still have no problem with buying and selling on the Sabbath.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
The Ad hominem is distracting from the content of the rest of your post. The strikeout text, is just a simplified form of name calling, Right ???

AV Mt 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

"Yours in Christ, Michael", The criteria you use to exclude me as GOD's people, GOD can and will use to judge back to you, in Omniscience. You are aware, that this qualifies as blasphemy, as judging in the place of GOD ??? Blasphemy coming to judge for GOD, in a day of rest too !!!

AV 1Jn 3:7-8 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Ad hominem is against a person, what doctrine are you using for the strikeout text ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
This whole vindicating God before the universe was formalized into the church doctrine when they updated the SDA Adventist Beliefs to 27 in 1980. I suggest you read the previous statements, specifically Belief #16, in the previous iteration, the 1931 Statement of 22 Fundamental Beliefs.
Please link to the evidence you want to present. I ask @pythons to help me like this regularly.

You are stating the obvious to say Adventism is changing through time.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

pythons

Active member
No, my understanding of the IJ is just fine and is what I was taught in my youth in the church and in the schools. Adventism has tried to make the IJ more palatable over the course of the last few decades by claiming that it is because God needs to justify Himself before the universe. The problem with that is that it ignores the fact that God is sovereign and need not justify Himself to anyone. God does not rule based upon His popularity. I suggest you read the book of Job.

That's what Ellen said though, wasn't it? That Lucifer put God into a pickle by essentially hauling Him into Galactic Court after circulating throughout the Galaxy that God had been too rough on Adam and Eve and that no one really could keep God's Holy law. Its because of that charge that creature christ (AKA Michael the archangel) steps forward and volunteers to come to earth and live as a man animal to prove that God's holy law is not to hard to observe and that mankind can indeed keep God's holy law thereby proving that Lucifer is a liar?

The rub for this pork roast however is saturated with incredible RISK because if Jesus would have sinned Lucifer would have won the Galactic court Battle, creature christ would have eternally ceased to exist and Father God would have had to surrender planet earth along with the milky way - to Lucifer. The above scenario is alien to Scripture.

Charles S Longacre
IF it were impossible for the Son of God to make a mistake or commit a sin, then His coming into this world and subjecting Himself to temptations were all a farce AND mere mockery. IF it were possible for Him to yield to temptation and fall into sin, then He MUST have risked heaven and His very existence, and EVEN all eternity. That is exactly what the Scriptures AND the Spirit of Prophecy say Christ, the Son of God did do when He came to work out for us a plan of salvation from the curse of sin.

IF Christ "risked all," EVEN His ETERNAL EXISTENCE in heaven, then there was a possibility of His being overcome by sin, and IF overcome by sin, He would have gone into Joseph's tomb and neither THAT tomb nor any other tomb would EVER have been opened. All would have been lost and HE would have suffered "eternal loss," the loss of ALL He ever possessed &; His DIVINITY AND His humanity and heaven itself would have been "lost & eternally lost

It was possible for one of the God-head to be lost, and eternally lost - and IF that had happened, and it WAS possible to happen, "God, the Father", would still have remained as the One and only absolute and living God
, reigning supreme over all the unfallen worlds, but with all the human race blotted out of existence on this earth
. The Deity of Christ’, paper presented to the Bible Research Fellowship Angwin, California January 1947, page 13 & 14)

Notice how above it says Christ could have "LOST" His Divinity & how Longacre gloats that what he's there affirming is "EXACTLY" what Ellen White says in her capacity of a Prophet. Could anyone tell me, even in a SCENARIO OF FICTION, how it would be possible for God the Father to "LOOSE HIS DEITY". I've never seen an Adventist do this because all Adventists (Christadelphians, Jehovah's Witnesses, WWCOG 7th day, SDA's, etc) absolutely believe The Father is ABSOLUTELY GOD but they don't extend the same for Christ. Christ was a husk or "Personality" (AKA a body) that was created in time that the Father actually instilled His own Deity into. Christ was free to test drive this "Deity" as long as He remained Loyal to Flesh Father.

Signs of the Time April 2, 1940
It is VITAL for every Christian
TO KNOW that Jesus Christ MIGHT have sinned. The Master was not beyond the clutches of temptation. The Heaven-sent Gift could have been eternally lost and the doom of humanity would have been eternally sealed. Jesus Christ knew the pull of evil. "In that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succor them that are tempted."

Signs of the Times Prophetic weekly 1933, Volume 60 No. 4
TO RESTORE MEN

God's plan of salvation was to reclaim a lost, bewildered world. Sin had degraded men, until vice had become a science and every type of evil was incorporated into the mind of man. When the heathen world had run its course of iniquity, when paganism and idolatry had engrossed the world, God sent forth His Son according to the plan, to restore men's rightful heritage as "sons of God." Jesus Christ took upon Himself the weakness, the tendencies, toward sin, that He might prove Himself a brother to His fellow men. His divine glory was hidden in humanity. "He took on Him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:16, 17. There was the danger of eternal loss in the plan. Jesus Christ MIGHT have sinned and the human race been lost. For He was tempted. He could have sinned!

Ellen White

The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father’s throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both.
http://text.egwwritings.org/publicat...%22&resultId=7

Notice how one of the two "Beings" is ETERNAL and "SELF-EXISTENT" which one's glory encircled both Beings??? I think everyone knows the answer to that.

Ellen White, Review and Herald, Jan 14, 1909
We are to be partakers of knowledge. As I have seen pictures representing Satan coming to Christ in the wilderness of temptation in the form of a hideous monster, I have thought, How little the artists knew of the Bible! Before his fall, Satan was, next to Christ, the highest ANGEL in heaven
 

Common Tater

Active member
This whole vindicating God before the universe was formalized into the church doctrine when they updated the SDA Adventist Beliefs to 27 in 1980. I suggest you read the previous statements, specifically Belief #16, in the previous iteration, the 1931 Statement of 22 Fundamental Beliefs. This vindication idea was put forth by folks like Jack Provansha and Graham Maxwell, again, to try and make the IJ seem a little more palatable.

By the way, let me point you again to the Book of Job, chapters 38-42. God is sovereign and does not need to justify himself to anyone. The thought that God serves at the pleasure of created beings, that He could somehow be found to be unjust, again, by created beings is ludicrous. There is no starter question for a hinted idea in Job. God makes it plain that He does not need to explain Himself or His decisions to us. He is God.

I see you still have no problem with buying and selling on the Sabbath.
 

Common Tater

Active member
That's what Ellen said though, wasn't it? That Lucifer put God into a pickle by essentially hauling Him into Galactic Court after circulating throughout the Galaxy that God had been too rough on Adam and Eve and that no one really could keep God's Holy law. Its because of that charge that creature christ (AKA Michael the archangel) steps forward and volunteers to come to earth and live as a man animal to prove that God's holy law is not to hard to observe and that mankind can indeed keep God's holy law thereby proving that Lucifer is a liar?

The rub for this pork roast however is saturated with incredible RISK because if Jesus would have sinned Lucifer would have won the Galactic court Battle, creature christ would have eternally ceased to exist and Father God would have had to surrender planet earth along with the milky way - to Lucifer. The above scenario is alien to Scripture.

Charles S Longacre
IF it were impossible for the Son of God to make a mistake or commit a sin, then His coming into this world and subjecting Himself to temptations were all a farce AND mere mockery. IF it were possible for Him to yield to temptation and fall into sin, then He MUST have risked heaven and His very existence, and EVEN all eternity. That is exactly what the Scriptures AND the Spirit of Prophecy say Christ, the Son of God did do when He came to work out for us a plan of salvation from the curse of sin.

IF Christ "risked all," EVEN His ETERNAL EXISTENCE in heaven, then there was a possibility of His being overcome by sin, and IF overcome by sin, He would have gone into Joseph's tomb and neither THAT tomb nor any other tomb would EVER have been opened. All would have been lost and HE would have suffered "eternal loss," the loss of ALL He ever possessed &; His DIVINITY AND His humanity and heaven itself would have been "lost & eternally lost

It was possible for one of the God-head to be lost, and eternally lost - and IF that had happened, and it WAS possible to happen, "God, the Father", would still have remained as the One and only absolute and living God
, reigning supreme over all the unfallen worlds, but with all the human race blotted out of existence on this earth
. The Deity of Christ’, paper presented to the Bible Research Fellowship Angwin, California January 1947, page 13 & 14)

Notice how above it says Christ could have "LOST" His Divinity & how Longacre gloats that what he's there affirming is "EXACTLY" what Ellen White says in her capacity of a Prophet. Could anyone tell me, even in a SCENARIO OF FICTION, how it would be possible for God the Father to "LOOSE HIS DEITY". I've never seen an Adventist do this because all Adventists (Christadelphians, Jehovah's Witnesses, WWCOG 7th day, SDA's, etc) absolutely believe The Father is ABSOLUTELY GOD but they don't extend the same for Christ. Christ was a husk or "Personality" (AKA a body) that was created in time that the Father actually instilled His own Deity into. Christ was free to test drive this "Deity" as long as He remained Loyal to Flesh Father.

Signs of the Time April 2, 1940
It is VITAL for every Christian
TO KNOW that Jesus Christ MIGHT have sinned. The Master was not beyond the clutches of temptation. The Heaven-sent Gift could have been eternally lost and the doom of humanity would have been eternally sealed. Jesus Christ knew the pull of evil. "In that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succor them that are tempted."

Signs of the Times Prophetic weekly 1933, Volume 60 No. 4
TO RESTORE MEN

God's plan of salvation was to reclaim a lost, bewildered world. Sin had degraded men, until vice had become a science and every type of evil was incorporated into the mind of man. When the heathen world had run its course of iniquity, when paganism and idolatry had engrossed the world, God sent forth His Son according to the plan, to restore men's rightful heritage as "sons of God." Jesus Christ took upon Himself the weakness, the tendencies, toward sin, that He might prove Himself a brother to His fellow men. His divine glory was hidden in humanity. "He took on Him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:16, 17. There was the danger of eternal loss in the plan. Jesus Christ MIGHT have sinned and the human race been lost. For He was tempted. He could have sinned!

Ellen White

The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father’s throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both.
http://text.egwwritings.org/publicat...%22&resultId=7

Notice how one of the two "Beings" is ETERNAL and "SELF-EXISTENT" which one's glory encircled both Beings??? I think everyone knows the answer to that.

Ellen White, Review and Herald, Jan 14, 1909
We are to be partakers of knowledge. As I have seen pictures representing Satan coming to Christ in the wilderness of temptation in the form of a hideous monster, I have thought, How little the artists knew of the Bible! Before his fall, Satan was, next to Christ, the highest ANGEL in heaven
You know, when I was growing up, I thought we were pretty much like Baptists except that we went to church on Saturday. I was sure off base with that idea and was kinda shocked to find our christology was way closer to that of the Mormons and Jehovah's Witness than Christianity.
 

Common Tater

Active member
If this is really important as an issue, to interrupt other threads, start a new thread with a good starter question then.

Yours in Christ, Michael
I thought worshiping the Sabbath was just about the most important thing for Adventists like you. No need for a starter question, just stating an observation.
 

pythons

Active member
You know, when I was growing up, I thought we were pretty much like Baptists except that we went to church on Saturday. I was sure off base with that idea and was kinda shocked to find our christology was way closer to that of the Mormons and Jehovah's Witness than Christianity.

Most members of groups like that are intentionally steered away from the 1st 7 Councils of the Christian Church - which systematize Sacred Scripture. If an individual doesn't know what the definition of the Trinity is they can easily be made to accept an alien definition of it without knowing the difference.

Ellen had no excuse because she started out as a Trinitarian (Methodist) and later militantly repudiated that doctrine after being bedded down by James White - who - in a moment of unholy ecstasy gloated

James White ( Ellen's husband )
"We invite all to compare THE TESTIMONIES of the Holy Spirit THROUGH Mrs. White with the word of God. And in this we do not invite you to compare them with your creed. That is quite another thing. The TRINITARIAN may compare them with his creed, and because THEY DO NOT AGREE WITH IT, CONDEMN them [ the testimonies of Mrs. White ]. The Adventist Review & Sabbath Herald June 13, 1871

Look below at how the Review & Sabbath Herald classifies the Methodist Creed pertaining to the Doctrine of God.

Screenshot (2780).png

Approximately 3 months after the above admission one of the most anti-Trinitarian articles ever published in the Church paper appeared - that article was revised and edited by none other than Ellen White herself.

Screenshot (2781).png

Below is the direct admission it was her that did it:

Screenshot (2782).png

One must wonder WHAT kind of a "Family Altar" a person would have to worship at to say the things found in that August 29, 1878 article! Could it be something like:

1635007799378.png
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
One must wonder WHAT kind of a "Family Altar" a person would have to worship at to say the things found in that August 29, 1878 article! Could it be something like:

View attachment 2125
pythons;
where did you get that image from ????
Hopefully that is not in the EGW home
or was just something she had as part of her research into Satanic influence in the world
 
Top