Why Jews will never accept Jesus

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
The Jew's assumed that Joseph was Jesus' physical father and His tribe would still be Judah fulfilling the prophecy anyway.
There's no assuming. You're either a physical child or adopted. The prophecies require physical descent. From the male loins and male seed.

I gave you the link that tied in Mary's part and the importance of the woman's lineage, didn't you read it?
It doesn't help you. Mary wasn't a king, queen, that could pass on anything.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
God has no physical form, that we are allowed to see, that's why He uses intermediaries, like angels and the Messiah.
He has no physical form, period, Deut 4:9,12,35, and He told us to teach that to our children.

We've been all over this before and you still don't get it. He says He has a face that no man can see and live.
No, He doesn't say that. You contradict yourself. You say He's not physical, then you say He has a face. If you study Exodus 33 and the Hebrew term panai used for face, and presence., you'll see you can't see God, Exodus 33:14,20,23.

That means you can't see a physical face, or back, because He is not physical. The back is a metaphor for grace and forgiveness, Isaiah 38:17, and proven in Exodus 34:6-7, where Moses only sees a vision of God's mercy, etc.

We see in Numbers 6:22-26, that God's face and presence are associated with blessings, protection, peace. Not a physical image.

Also, God's name, YHWH, is on Israel, v27.

He mooned Moses and showed Him his back parts. He's tangble in His own realm, but not in ours. Isaiah saw God on His throne and that was probably His image, the Messiah.
Wrong. You're stuck in a physical, idolatrous paradigm. Pretty disrespectful to refer to God the way you did.

Your idea of god, is what Elijah ridiculed in 1 Kings 18:27 -

About noontime Elijah began mocking them. “You’ll have to shout louder,” he scoffed, “for surely he is a god! Perhaps he is daydreaming, or is relieving himself. Or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened."

This is your idea of a tangible god.
 
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Open Heart

Active member
The Jews do not understand their own scriptures in regard to the Messiah.
We do. There was a brief period of time where we worked it out. Since then we've been quite sure.

Christians, OTOH, attribute all sorts of verses to the Messiah that have nothing to do with him.
 

Open Heart

Active member
All believers in the Messiah Jesus will be resurrected and be priests forever with David. God told Moses He wanted all men to be priests.
Jesus was from the tribe of David, His lineage is traced on both sides.
I've already demolished this. Repeating your statements are not a counter argument.
 

Open Heart

Active member
The man Abraham is speaking to is not identified as an angel, only the two men that went to Sodom. The LORD is obviously speaking through His representative to Abraham. You are starting to get it, that's what the Messiah is, God's representative.
It never, EVER says that it is the Messiah. Furthermore, it is the job of the Messiah to rule during the Messianic age, and not anything else.

On the other hand, it says there are three men. Since two are later identified as messengers (angels) and the third did the same things, we can bet that the third is similarly a messenger (angel).
 

Open Heart

Active member
God was obviously speaking through His representative or image. God has no form so He uses an image in some cases when He communicates with men. We don't worship the image, we worship the God who is represented by the image. Was Abraham worshiping an idol when he spoke to God through His image? Of course not.
Abraham didn't worship. He offered the angels dinner, and treated them with great respect due their position.
 

Biblican

Member
Abraham didn't worship. He offered the angels dinner, and treated them with great respect due their position.
Abraham addressed one of the men as God, Yahweh. The text makes it clear that only two of the men were angels and they were sent to Sodom in verse 22 and Abraham continues talking to the man he addresses as Yahweh. According to Jews and Muslims to address any man as god is idolatry and in Islam is the highest form of blasphemy anyone can commit. Abraham is guilty of neither, because the person he was addressing as God was God, otherwise Abraham would not have called him Yahweh. Likewise. Christians cannot be accused of idolatry or blasphemy because like Abraham, they recognized that God can be in an image and be recognized as God.
 

Biblican

Member
It never, EVER says that it is the Messiah. Furthermore, it is the job of the Messiah to rule during the Messianic age, and not anything else.

On the other hand, it says there are three men. Since two are later identified as messengers (angels) and the third did the same things, we can bet that the third is similarly a messenger (angel).
Betting on the third man as an angel is not the same as examining the text and making a conclusion from the usage in the wording. The third man is addressed as Yahweh. The understanding that the image of Yahweh Abraham is addressing is the Messiah comes from a through examination of the context of the entire Bible, and tracing the evidence to its obvious (to those who have studied it) conclusion.
 

Biblican

Member
We do. There was a brief period of time where we worked it out. Since then we've been quite sure.

Christians, OTOH, attribute all sorts of verses to the Messiah that have nothing to do with him.
The Jews "worked it out" by inventing explantions that cannot be found in scripture. Everything the Christians believe comes directly from the word. We do not use Takenot as an excuse to rewrite what God has actually said.
 

Biblican

Member
THE Messiah does not save us from our sins.
You know if you read Isaiah 53 to a Jew who hasn't heard it before without telling him where it is from, they will immediately say its all about Jesus, it's that obvious. His soul is an offering for our sins Isaiah 53:10. This verse as well as the entire chapter is supported from Genesis through out the entire Old Testament where the plan of redemption for mankind is described as well as Messiah's role in it.
 

Biblican

Member
He has no physical form, period, Deut 4:9,12,35, and He told us to teach that to our children.


No, He doesn't say that. You contradict yourself. You say He's not physical, then you say He has a face. If you study Exodus 33 and the Hebrew term panai used for face, and presence., you'll see you can't see God, Exodus 33:14,20,23.

That means you can't see a physical face, or back, because He is not physical. The back is a metaphor for grace and forgiveness, Isaiah 38:17, and proven in Exodus 34:6-7, where Moses only sees a vision of God's mercy, etc.

We see in Numbers 6:22-26, that God's face and presence are associated with blessings, protection, peace. Not a physical image.

Also, God's name, YHWH, is on Israel, v27.


Wrong. You're stuck in a physical, idolatrous paradigm. Pretty disrespectful to refer to God the way you did.

Your idea of god, is what Elijah ridiculed in 1 Kings 18:27 -

About noontime Elijah began mocking them. “You’ll have to shout louder,” he scoffed, “for surely he is a god! Perhaps he is daydreaming, or is relieving himself. Or maybe he is away on a trip, or is asleep and needs to be wakened."

This is your idea of a tangible god.
God has no physical form that we are allowed to see in this realm, that's why He operates through an image as He did when He appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18. God's presence is manifested to men through His Spirit. God obviously manifested Himself to Moses in some form of Himself in response to Moses request to "show me Your glory." God said Moses could not see God's face or His presence and live. In other words, if God's face/presence is manifested visibly it would be so glorious it would kill a human. It is so holy and intense it would be like being dropped into the sun. A human would be incinerated instantly by God's holiness. That is why our sins have to be removed before we can enter His presence to behold Him in heaven were His presence is manifested. Moses was told to hide in the rock and God would pass by. God makes a distinction between beholding His face the part of His presence that God will not allow men to see for their protection or they would die. But the text makes it very clear that Moses was allowed to see something. He saw God's back and he was covered by God's hand which were probably manifestations of His presence that could assume a semblance of a physical counterpart to a human's construction. Remember this is God talking to Moses and God Himself is using these counterparts of a human's anatomy to describe Himself. Argue with Him about this.
In another place God says that He eases Himself of His adversaries (Isaiah 1:24, Deaut. 23:13) which means He poops them out. The Lord uses human analogies to help us understand His actions.
 
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Biblican

Member
There's no assuming. You're either a physical child or adopted. The prophecies require physical descent. From the male loins and male seed.


It doesn't help you. Mary wasn't a king, queen, that could pass on anything.
Because Mary was married to Joseph who was from the tribe of Judah the Jews would consider Jesus to be from Judah fulfilling the prophecy.
Mary's DNA connects the last Adam with the first. The mother's lineage was considered very important. Go back and read the article I gave you about how the Jews saw this.
 

Biblican

Member
But the image is not God. You're forbidden to worship an image, Exodus 34:17.


We don't worship men.


Anyone subordinate is not God.


That is false. There's no reference to Messiah here, and we don't worship men or images.


What verse? You claim a lot and can't support your words.


Sure they were.
Abraham is addressing a man as Yahweh. That would be considered idolatry and blasphemy. Abraham is not guilty of either because the man he is addressing is Yahweh as the original language specifically tells us. Apparently your rabbi's have avoided teaching their students this, that's why you are having such a hard time with it, it's not part of your programming. The understanding of how an image can be called God is explained by understanding how the scriptures use the words soul and spirit in relationship to God and how they are used in conjunction with the image.
The verse that shows David being the recipient of the same reverence afforded to God is found in one of the Chronicles. Get to work.
The prophets were not indwelt. The Spirit could operate through them, but they were not given life directly by the Holy Spirit or they would be divine and they were not, they were just messengers.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
God has no physical form that we are allowed to see in this realm, that's why He operates through an image as He did when He appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18. God's presence is manifested to men through His Spirit. God obviously manifested Himself to Moses in some form of Himself in response to Moses request to "show me Your glory." God said Moses could not see God's face or His presence and live. In other words, if God's face/presence is manifested visibly it would be so glorious it would kill a human. It is so holy and intense it would be like being dropped into the sun. A human would be incinerated instantly by God's holiness. That is why our sins have to be removed before we can enter His presence to behold Him in heaven were His presence is manifested. Moses was told to hide in the rock and God would pass by. God makes a distinction between beholding His face the part of His presence that God will not allow men to see for their protection or they would die. But the text makes it very clear that Moses was allowed to see something. He saw God's back and he was covered by God's hand which were probably manifestations of His presence that could assume a semblance of a physical counterpart to a human's construction. Remember this is God talking to Moses and God Himself is using these counterparts of a human's anatomy to describe Himself. Argue with Him about this.
In another place God says that He eases Himself of His adversaries (Isaiah 1:24, Deaut. 23:13) which means He poops them out. The Lord uses human analogies to help us understand His actions.
You don't understand metaphors. Study panai.

Like I said, your depiction and understanding of your gods is hilarious and the picture of false gods as Elijah said in 1 Kings 18:27 -

At noon, Elijah began making fun of them. "Pray louder!" he said. "Baal must be a god. Maybe he's daydreaming or using the toilet or traveling somewhere. Or maybe he's asleep, and you have to wake him up."

Basically your gods worship and sit at the porcelain throne. Rotfl... look at the context of Deuteronomy 23:13, it is for people. You gave such a sad, ridiculous reply. And Isaiah 1:24 doesn't even apply.
 
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Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Because Mary was married to Joseph who was from the tribe of Judah the Jews would consider Jesus to be from Judah fulfilling the prophecy.
This is false. Mary doesn't pass on lineage. The daddy does that.

Adoption by Joseph doesn't help you. Abraham was told otherwise.

Then the word of the LORD came to Abram, saying, “This one will not be your heir, but one who comes from your own body will be your heir.” And the LORD took him outside and said, “Now look to the heavens and count the stars, if you are able.” Then He told him, “So shall your offspring be.”

David was told the fruit comes via the males body as we know that's how biology works.

The LORD swore unto David in truth; He will not turn back from it: 'Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Mary's DNA connects the last Adam with the first. The mother's lineage was considered very important. Go back and read the article I gave you about how the Jews saw this.
You provided nothing of value. Jesus inherited sin. Thanks for confirming.
 
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