Why Jews will never accept Jesus

[rakovsky]

Why do you say we are in hell not on earth?

 

[GeneZ]

Yeshua shed his blood for "whomsoever will." Those who said yes were predestined.

Predestined to be made to become the Bride of Christ when they believe. Not predestined for salvation. But, for what eternal state will be granted when they believed. David was not predestined to be the Bride of Christ. Nor were any of the OT prophets, including even Moses.


For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love." Ephesians 1:4

Out of all that God knew would believe? God chose the church age believers for His Bride!

It says that we were chosen "in Him." Not simply chosen. Not all believers in history were chosen to be the Bride of Christ. Only the Church was!

Where was Eve before Adam placed into a deep sleep? She was "in Adam." We are now "In Him." We were chosen "in Him" to be His blameless Bride! Eve was not seen at first. And, we are waiting to be revealed in the Resurrection.. We will be "bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh."


grace and peace......

 

[e v e]

Why do you say we are in hell not on earth?

Because the separation from Adam caused cosmological effects... and we are not in paradise with God are we...
There is a separation of us because of the fall...no more as Adam did can man walk with God in the garden..

 

[e v e]

Predestined to be made to become the Bride of Christ when they believe. Not predestined for salvation. But, for what eternal state will be granted when they believed. David was not predestined to be the Bride of Christ. Nor were any of the OT prophets, including even Moses.


For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love." Ephesians 1:4

Out of all that God knew would believe? God chose the church age believers for His Bride!

It says that we were chosen "in Him." Not simply chosen. Not all believers in history were chosen to be the Bride of Christ. Only the Church was!

Where was Eve before Adam placed into a deep sleep? She was "in Adam." We are now "In Him." We were chosen "in Him" to be His blameless Bride! Eve was not seen at first. And, we are waiting to be revealed in the Resurrection.. We will be "bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh."


grace and peace......

Of course the prophets are going to be His bride. They were the only ones who listened to him and penned what His Words to us in our captivity, in Egypt, still.

And now, today, practically no one does listen...

 

[GeneZ]

..

Because the separation from Adam caused cosmological effects... and we are not in paradise with God are we...
There is a separation of us because of the fall...no more as Adam did can man walk with God in the garden..

Not what Jesus promised. Life more abundantly...

Here is one example of why some have a problem with this life... There's more also

Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on
themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen
asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such
judgment." 1 Cor 11:28-31

 

[e v e]

Those He chose were and are the Originals of Eden... the sons and daughters in Eden, when she fell....
those same being us, His souls, who were separated from our Original being... the glorified original body we had.
And this is why He visited Sheol (what was formerly eden and is now tartarus) ... and not only visiting this earth.

The youths before time are His sons (and daughters), of Eden, Us, who are being Restored and will go to the Change, when, His sons will rule with HIm and help Him rebuild Eden.

So they were chosen before time started...Because time as we know it is the fallen situation we are in now... this cosmos, 'history' etc.

 

[e v e]

The abundant Life He talks about is at the Change. Not here on this earth. This earth will pass.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Two points.

First, Isaiah 53 is not about the Messiah, but about Israel.

Ridiculous. All you have to do is READ IT to know your claim is phony.

Secondly, while there are occasional converts among Jews, in general the Christian gospel just doesn't make inroad into the Jewish community.

In exactly the same way that the Christian Gospel doesn't really make inroads into any Social system. (Mat 7:14).

I mean, look, you have converted all of Europe, the Americas, Australia,

Ridiculous. There IS a "Born Again Christian presence" in most countries, but it's UTTERLY RIDICULOUS to say "all of Europe, Australia, and the Americas" are "Converted".
Most people in them are Agnostic, or Atheistic. You obviously know little or NOTHING about "Born Again Christianity" (the only kind there is).

 

[En Hakkore]

Ridiculous. All you have to do is READ IT to know your claim is phony.

Could you please point your readers to where within the text unit of Isa 52:13-53:12 that any 'messiah' (Hebrew: משיח) is referenced. Thanks.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

 

[Iconoclast]

Welcome back everyone.

Christians are frustrated. Of all the peoples on the earth, they would think that the Jews, to whom God has entrusted the oracles, would accept Jesus as the Messiah. But no. Jewish converts have been ultra few. By and large, more than any other people, Jews have been immune to the gospel. Why? I hope that this post will answer that question.

1. God is ECHAD, one, not three in one. Christianity teaches Trinitarianism, which although it is monotheism, is a muddied monotheism. Judaism on the other hand teaches a pure and simple monotheism. Anything that comprises the oneness of God is unthinkable.
2. God is not a man. This is the nature of God, and the nature of God is unchanging. It is stated three times in the Tanakh: twice in Numbers 23:19, and a third time in Job 9:32. For something to be reiterated three times -- it must be of great importance. Christianity on the other hand, claims that Jesus is "fully God and fully man," at least in the orthodox version. The two are absolutely incompatible. Christians try to claim that "let us create man in our own image" is a reference to the triune nature of God, but in reality it is God talking to the heavenly court. Similarly, the claims of Elohim being a plural are moot -- it is more similar to the royal "we" used by the Queen.
3. The New Testament contradicts the teachings of the Tanakh/Torah. The Torah clearly teaches the following of the Law, in order to receive the blessings of prosperity and the land of Canaan. Psalm 19 states that the Law is "perfect....sweeter also than the honey and the honeycomb." Yet Paul teaches that the Law brings a curse. He teaches that circumcision is nothing and keeping the Sabbath is up to the individual, rather than being necessary for the Jew. These views, that of the Tanakh and those of Paul, are utterly incompatible. The Torah is agreed upon by both Christians and Jews to be the word of God, and is therefore the measuring reed to determine what else is orthodoxy -- and it therefore determines that the NT doesn't pass muster
4. The New Testament quotes prophecy out of context (i.e. Hosea 11:1, which is about Israel, not the messiah), misquotes prophecy (i.e. Isaiah 7:14 which is rightly translated young maiden, not virgin), and even makes up prophecy out of whole cloth (such as Matthew 2:23, He shall be called a Nazarene aka someone from the city of Nazareth.)
5. Jesus cannot be the Messiah because he simply did not fulfill messianic prophecy. It makes no sense to say, "He will fulfill the rest when he comes back again." After all, anyone can claim to be the messiah and say they will fulfill the prophecies the next time around. The only way we have of determining the messiah is if they fulfill the messianic claims, all of them, and quite frankly Jesus did not; thus he failed in his attempt to be the messiah. Here are just three examples:
   • The Messiah will usher in an era of worldwide peace between the nations. Jesus did not.​
   • The Messiah will rule from Jerusalem. Jesus did not.​
   • The Messiah will bring ALL Jews back to the Land of Israel. Jesus did not.​

looks like you lack total understanding of the scriptures. Deny Jesus is God come in the flesh ensures you have no gospel understanding. hosea 11:1 is quoted mt.2:15 to show Jesus leads the true Exodus, of which OT>. mediator Moses was a type of Jesus the true mediator, the true passover 1 cor5:7,true tabernacle Hebrews8-10

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Could you please point your readers to where within the text unit of Isa 52:13-53:12 that any 'messiah' (Hebrew: משיח) is referenced. Thanks.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

Sure Isa 53:10. Plain as day.

 

[En Hakkore]

Sure Isa 53:10. Plain as day.

I'm not sure what version you're reading, but there is no reference to a 'messiah' (Hebrew: משיח) in Isa 53:10 in any of my biblical texts.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

 

[e v e]

Sure Isa 53:10. Plain as day.

Yes it is Christ.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I'm not sure what version you're reading, but there is no reference to a 'messiah' (Hebrew: משיח) in Isa 53:10 in any of my biblical texts.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

You've got the same problem the Israelites in Jesus day did. They expected ONE thing out of Messiah, and Jesus did something 1000 times BETTER - but they didn't recognize it. There's NOTHING greater than being cleansed of your SIN, and being perfect in the sight of God. Isa 53:10 speaks of a MAN - who's SOUL is a SIN OFFERING - infinitly BETTER than livestock blood.

 

[En Hakkore]

You've got the same problem the Israelites in Jesus day did. They expected ONE thing out of Messiah, and Jesus did something 1000 times BETTER - but they didn't recognize it. There's NOTHING greater than being cleansed of your SIN, and being perfect in the sight of God. Isa 53:10 speaks of a MAN - who's SOUL is a SIN OFFERING - infinitly BETTER than livestock blood.

I'll take this evasion as an acknowledgment on your part that there is no mention of a 'messiah' (Hebrew: משיח) anywhere in Isa 52:13-53:12 --- as, indeed, there is not. Hopefully you can therefore appreciate why there are people who draw the reasonable conclusion this section is not speaking about any 'messiah' figure...

Kind regards,
Jonathan

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I'll take this evasion as an acknowledgment on your part that there is no mention of a 'messiah' (Hebrew: משיח) anywhere in Isa 52:13-53:12 --- as, indeed, there is not. Hopefully you can therefore appreciate why there are people who draw the reasonable conclusion this section is not speaking about any 'messiah' figure...

Kind regards,
Jonathan

I answered your question, and you didn't even realize it. Messiah is DESCRIBED unavoidably, and you choose to play "Word games.

 

[GeneZ]

The abundant Life He talks about is at the Change. Not here on this earth. This earth will pass.

That will not be "abundant life." What you speak of far exceeds "abundant life." That change will be Eternal Life!

This is what God wants for us now... Not later.

"Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things
and be in health, just as your soul prospers. "
3 John 2​

Our souls can not prosper with false teaching.

Our soul needs sound doctrinal thinking in all we do.

If your soul is not prospering, your health can not be good.

 

[GeneZ]

I'll take this evasion as an acknowledgment on your part that there is no mention of a 'messiah' (Hebrew: משיח) anywhere in Isa 52:13-53:12 --- as, indeed, there is not. Hopefully you can therefore appreciate why there are people who draw the reasonable conclusion this section is not speaking about any 'messiah' figure...

Kind regards,
Jonathan

How come many here all know Him? And, you're teaching us He is not real?

You are preaching to a choir of one between your ears.

We know the Truth.

We are being patient with you.

 

[rakovsky]

Because the separation from Adam caused cosmological effects... and we are not in paradise with God are we...
There is a separation of us because of the fall...no more as Adam did can man walk with God in the garden..

Well, the Fall apparently already happened before Adam's sin and Adam's own Fall and before Adam was cast out of the Garden. Even before those events occurred, apparently there were angels who had rebelled because one of them tempted Adam in the Garden.

More specifically, it's not really clear to me the relationship between Satan and the serpeant in the Garden. The story speaks of the serpent as an animal in the Garden whom God cursed and ordered would have to crawl on his belly as punishment for the temptation. I guess an easy answer is that Lucifer used the snake to tempt Adam.

 

[GeneZ]

Because the separation from Adam caused cosmological effects... and we are not in paradise with God are we...
There is a separation of us because of the fall...no more as Adam did can man walk with God in the garden..

We do not have to be in blissful paradise to be made happy. You are confusing "happiness" for what will be eternal glory.

God gets the glory when He can take a believer stuck in the Devil's world AND MAKE HIM HAPPY!

You are falling for a lie that makes you into a fatalist. Give-up-itis. Someone who is being robbed and stolen from by an enemy who does not want to see God glorified!

Yes! This is a screwed up world!


What better evidence of God's transforming grace and superiority over the Devil? Than the Lord making a believer happy in the Devil's back yard!

I have told you these things so that My joy and delight may be in you,
and that your joy may be made full and complete and overflowing."
John 15:11


You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows."
Psalm 23:5​

You need good sound teaching to pull you out of the mud you have gotten yourself stuck in.

False teaching is like walking through deep mud! It wears you out as you are being determined to keep going on.


grace and peace........