Why Momons object to LDS having a Personal Relationship with Jesus

The Prophet

Active member
Our Relationship with the Lord

BRUCE R. MCCONKIE

Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as I shall set them forth.

We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost.
I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us.


https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie_relationship-lord/
 

The Prophet

Active member
Since Mormon leaders are a confused bunch here's what Bruce R McConkie said in Mormon Doctrine

Plurality of Gods


See ADAM-GOD THEORY, CHRIST, FALSE GODS, FATHER IN HEAVEN, GODHEAD, GODHOOD, HOLY GHOST, POLYTHEISM. Three separate personages — Father, Son, and Holy Ghost — comprise the Godhead. As each of these persons is a God, it is evident, from this standpoint alone, that a plurality of Gods exists. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only Gods we worship. But in addition there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
"Inconsistency is the tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult." (John t) Only in Mormonism, it is more like a giant one!
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
Since Mormon leaders are a confused bunch here's what Bruce R McConkie said in Mormon Doctrine

Plurality of Gods

See ADAM-GOD THEORY, CHRIST, FALSE GODS, FATHER IN HEAVEN, GODHEAD, GODHOOD, HOLY GHOST, POLYTHEISM. Three separate personages — Father, Son, and Holy Ghost — comprise the Godhead.
As each of these persons is a God, it is evident, from this standpoint alone, that a plurality of Gods exists. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only Gods we worship. But in addition there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods.
Unfortunately they threw McConkie under the bus despite his book being used for years by the faithful.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Unfortunately they threw McConkie under the bus despite his book being used for years by the faithful.
I think it was revised.

 

organgrinder

Well-known member
I think it was revised.

and they still threw him under the bus. This was used by missionaries, etc. for many years. My Mormon landlord in the mid-70s referred to this. It contained what they believed much the same as a Roman Catholic catechism. It was the "go to" to get quick answers. And now it is considered embarrassing because of the doctrines it contains.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
and they still threw him under the bus. This was used by missionaries, etc. for many years. My Mormon landlord in the mid-70s referred to this. It contained what they believed much the same as a Roman Catholic catechism. It was the "go to" to get quick answers. And now it is considered embarrassing because of the doctrines it contains.
I know. Sad, isn't it? Mormons should ask themselves: WHY do I find such doctrines--like Jesus and Satan being brothers; men can evolve into gods; etc.--so....disturbing?
 
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organgrinder

Well-known member
Makes one wonder...what IS official in the LDS church?
Whatever is convenient at the time. Lots of prophetic messages and teachings now are considered flawed. Why even have a "modern day prophet" if you don't listen and obey them. Smorgasbord Mormons pick and choose. and supposedly by listening to the "Holy Ghost" which can give each Mormon a different answer on what their "prophet" says is true or not. What a church!
 

The Prophet

Active member
Notice that Bruce R McConkie doesn't use the name Jesus even once in his song "I believe in Christ" since he taught we shouldn't have a Personal Relation ship with Jesus and just uses his title Christ
  1. 1. I believe in Christ; he is my King!
    With all my heart to him I’ll sing;
    I’ll raise my voice in praise and joy,
    In grand amens my tongue employ.
    I believe in Christ; he is God’s Son.
    On earth to dwell his soul did come.
    He healed the sick; the dead he raised.
    Good works were his; his name be praised.
  2. 2. I believe in Christ; oh blessed name!
    As Mary’s Son he came to reign
    ’Mid mortal men, his earthly kin,
    To save them from the woes of sin.
    I believe in Christ, who marked the path,
    Who did gain all his Father hath,
    Who said to men: “Come, follow me,
    That ye, my friends, with God may be.”
  3. 3. I believe in Christ—my Lord, my God!
    My feet he plants on gospel sod.
    I’ll worship him with all my might;
    He is the source of truth and light.
    I believe in Christ; he ransoms me.
    From Satan’s grasp he sets me free,
    And I shall live with joy and love
    In his eternal courts above.
  4. 4. I believe in Christ; he stands supreme!
    From him I’ll gain my fondest dream;
    And while I strive through grief and pain,
    His voice is heard: “Ye shall obtain.”
    I believe in Christ; so come what may,
    With him I’ll stand in that great day
    When on this earth he comes again
    To rule among the sons of men.
Text: Bruce R. McConkie, 1915–1985. © 1972 IRI
 

The Prophet

Active member
Unfortunately they threw McConkie under the bus despite his book being used for years by the faithful.
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Bonnie

Super Member
Notice that Bruce R McConkie doesn't use the name Jesus even once in his song "I believe in Christ" since he taught we shouldn't have a Personal Relation ship with Jesus and just uses his title Christ
  1. 1. I believe in Christ; he is my King!
    With all my heart to him I’ll sing;
    I’ll raise my voice in praise and joy,
    In grand amens my tongue employ.
    I believe in Christ; he is God’s Son.
    On earth to dwell his soul did come.
    He healed the sick; the dead he raised.
    Good works were his; his name be praised.
  2. 2. I believe in Christ; oh blessed name!
    As Mary’s Son he came to reign
    ’Mid mortal men, his earthly kin,
    To save them from the woes of sin.
    I believe in Christ, who marked the path,
    Who did gain all his Father hath,
    Who said to men: “Come, follow me,
    That ye, my friends, with God may be.”
  3. 3. I believe in Christ—my Lord, my God!
    My feet he plants on gospel sod.
    I’ll worship him with all my might;
    He is the source of truth and light.
    I believe in Christ; he ransoms me.
    From Satan’s grasp he sets me free,
    And I shall live with joy and love
    In his eternal courts above.
  4. 4. I believe in Christ; he stands supreme!
    From him I’ll gain my fondest dream;
    And while I strive through grief and pain,
    His voice is heard: “Ye shall obtain.”
    I believe in Christ; so come what may,
    With him I’ll stand in that great day
    When on this earth he comes again
    To rule among the sons of men.
Text: Bruce R. McConkie, 1915–1985. © 1972 IRI
I once asked a Mormon on here why he never used "Jesus" in his posts, just "Christ.' He told me he thought it was a bit disrespectful to use His name. I always thought that was odd.

Didn't one of their theologians denigrate a personal relationship with Jesus, or deny it, or something similar? I don't remember who that was, or where to find that quote. I do remember reading it, though.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I once asked a Mormon on here why he never used "Jesus" in his posts, just "Christ.' He told me he thought it was a bit disrespectful to use His name. I always thought that was odd.

I just did a search on the LDS website of the term "Jesus" in their magazines ("Ensign", "Liahona", "Friend"), and the various authors of the articles use the name "Jesus" all the time. So that's just weird.

But since Mormons in the forums go out of their way to try to attack ANYTHING related to mainstream Christianity (including "personal relationship"), maybe it's not so weird.

Didn't one of their theologians denigrate a personal relationship with Jesus, or deny it, or something similar? I don't remember who that was, or where to find that quote. I do remember reading it, though.

Okay.. A little more searching, and I found this:


"Recently in South America, a seasoned group of outstanding missionaries was asked, “What is the greatest need in the world?” One wisely responded: “Is not the greatest need in all of the world for every person to have a personal, ongoing, daily, continuing relationship with the Savior?” Having such a relationship can unchain the divinity within us, and nothing can make a greater difference in our lives as we come to know and understand our divine relationship with God."
[...]
"Fourth: A daily acknowledgment of His divinity. T
o have a daily, personal relationship with the Master, we must be His disciples. “For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?” (Mosiah 5:13.)"
[...]
"It is my testimony that we are facing difficult times. We must be courageously obedient. My witness is that we will be called upon to prove our spiritual stamina, for the days ahead will be filled with affliction and difficulty.
But with the assuring comfort of a personal relationship with the Savior, we will be given a calming courage. From the Divine so near we will receive the quiet assurance:"
-- Elder James E. Faust, Of the First Council of the Seventy, "A Personal Relationship with the Savior", Ensign, Nov. 1976.


There are other articles as well. I don't doubt that the article you spoke of exists as well, which simply demonstrates the contradictory nature of Mormonism, and lack of systematic theology and thought.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I just did a search on the LDS website of the term "Jesus" in their magazines ("Ensign", "Liahona", "Friend"), and the various authors of the articles use the name "Jesus" all the time. So that's just weird.

But since Mormons in the forums go out of their way to try to attack ANYTHING related to mainstream Christianity (including "personal relationship"), maybe it's not so weird.



Okay.. A little more searching, and I found this:


"Recently in South America, a seasoned group of outstanding missionaries was asked, “What is the greatest need in the world?” One wisely responded: “Is not the greatest need in all of the world for every person to have a personal, ongoing, daily, continuing relationship with the Savior?” Having such a relationship can unchain the divinity within us, and nothing can make a greater difference in our lives as we come to know and understand our divine relationship with God."
[...]
"Fourth: A daily acknowledgment of His divinity. T
o have a daily, personal relationship with the Master, we must be His disciples. “For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?” (Mosiah 5:13.)"
[...]
"It is my testimony that we are facing difficult times. We must be courageously obedient. My witness is that we will be called upon to prove our spiritual stamina, for the days ahead will be filled with affliction and difficulty.
But with the assuring comfort of a personal relationship with the Savior, we will be given a calming courage. From the Divine so near we will receive the quiet assurance:"
-- Elder James E. Faust, Of the First Council of the Seventy, "A Personal Relationship with the Savior", Ensign, Nov. 1976.


There are other articles as well. I don't doubt that the article you spoke of exists as well, which simply demonstrates the contradictory nature of Mormonism, and lack of systematic theology and thought.
I saw it years ago, but don't remember who in Mormonism wrote it. I think it was one of their presidents or top theologians....maybe McConkie? Perhaps someone before him....something about not making too big a deal out of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

But a Mormon years ago on here did tell me that he didn't use Jesus' name because to use His personal name would not show Him proper respect. I think it was a Mormon who hasn't been on here for years wrote that.
 
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The Prophet

Active member
I just did a search on the LDS website of the term "Jesus" in their magazines ("Ensign", "Liahona", "Friend"), and the various authors of the articles use the name "Jesus" all the time. So that's just weird.

But since Mormons in the forums go out of their way to try to attack ANYTHING related to mainstream Christianity (including "personal relationship"), maybe it's not so weird.



Okay.. A little more searching, and I found this:


"Recently in South America, a seasoned group of outstanding missionaries was asked, “What is the greatest need in the world?” One wisely responded: “Is not the greatest need in all of the world for every person to have a personal, ongoing, daily, continuing relationship with the Savior?” Having such a relationship can unchain the divinity within us, and nothing can make a greater difference in our lives as we come to know and understand our divine relationship with God."
[...]
"Fourth: A daily acknowledgment of His divinity. T
o have a daily, personal relationship with the Master, we must be His disciples. “For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?” (Mosiah 5:13.)"
[...]
"It is my testimony that we are facing difficult times. We must be courageously obedient. My witness is that we will be called upon to prove our spiritual stamina, for the days ahead will be filled with affliction and difficulty.
But with the assuring comfort of a personal relationship with the Savior, we will be given a calming courage. From the Divine so near we will receive the quiet assurance:"
-- Elder James E. Faust, Of the First Council of the Seventy, "A Personal Relationship with the Savior", Ensign, Nov. 1976.


There are other articles as well. I don't doubt that the article you spoke of exists as well, which simply demonstrates the contradictory nature of Mormonism, and lack of systematic theology and thought.
Did you notice these quotes say savior, master , but not Jesus
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Did you notice these quotes say savior, master , but not Jesus

Yes, but that article was specifically about "personal savoiur". There were many other articles which did use the name Jesus. But you make a good point, how good a "relationship" can you have with someone if you don't call Him by his name?
 
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