Why OSAS Is True

Hark

Well-known member
Here are some Scriptures against OSAS...

Matt 7:21-23 • Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.
Matt 10:33 • Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.
Matt 13:18-23 • 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.
Matt 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 • Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.
Matt 25:44-46 • Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.
Mark 8:35-36 • Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.
Mark 9:43-48 • Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.
Mark 13:13 • But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally …
… also see Matt 10:22, Col 1:22-23, Heb 10:35-39, Rev 2:10.
Luke 9:23-25 • Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).
Luke 14:26-33 • Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple …
… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?
John 12:25 • He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.
John 15:1-6 • Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.
John 17:3 • Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?
Rom 1:29-32 • Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.
Rom 2:5-11 • Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.
Rom 6:15-23 • Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.
Rom 8:1-8 • Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.
Rom 8:12-13 • We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die (eternal death).
Rom 11:20-22 • Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.
1 Cor 6:9-10 • Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 15:2 • You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.
2 Cor 7:10 • Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.
2 Cor 13:5 • Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.
Gal 5:1-4 • Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law,
… have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.
Gal 5:19-21 • Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:24 • Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 6:7-8 • Do not be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.
Eph 5:3-6 • Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.
Eph 5:25-27 • Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.
Phil 2:12-16 • Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
… so that: (a) you may become blameless, and (b) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.
Col 1:21-29 • Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and
… “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
Col 3:5-6 • Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.
1 Tim 4:1 • Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.
1 Tim 5:11-15 • Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.
1 Tim 6:9-14 • Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition …
… Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).
1 Tim 6:17-19 • Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.
Titus 1:1-3 • Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.
Heb 2:1-4 • Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?
Heb 3:6 • We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
Heb 3:12-15 • Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened …
… through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.
Heb 3:17-19 • The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).
Heb 4:1 • Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).
Heb 4:11 • Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.
Heb 6:4-8 • Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.
Heb 10:26-27 • If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, we can expect God’s fiery judgment.
Heb 10:29-31 • The LORD will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.
Heb 10:35-39 • Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.
Heb 12:14-15 • Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.
Heb 12:15-17 • Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.
James 1:12-16 • Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin brings forth spiritual death.
1 Pet 1:8-9 • Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.
2 Pet 1:10-11 • Be diligent to make your call and election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.
2 Pet 2:20-22 • If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before …
… knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.
1 John 1:9 • If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2:3-5 • We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 John 2:24-25 • If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us …
… nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.
1 John 3:15 • If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.
Jude 1:20-21 • 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.
Rev 2:10 • Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life. See Mark 13:13 above.
Rev 2:11 • He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).
Rev 3:5 • He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.
Rev 21:8 • Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
Rev 21:27 • Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.
Rev 22:14 • Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.
Rev 22:15 • Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.
All of those scriptural references in your quote as listed, are not being rightly divided since they can not go against scripture below.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

To be continued... because of post limit
 

Hark

Well-known member
Even when addressing those that go astray and follow a stranger's voice are still His and thus still saved because they had believed in Him before going astray thus they are His sheep per John 10:26. That is why Jesus differentiate between 2 kinds of folds that believed in Him where one fold follows His voice and the other followed a stranger's voice, but yet that is why He MUST bring them because they are His other sheep not of the fold that followed His voice in John 10:16.

If you discern with Him those left behind and being resurrected as coming out of the great tribulation as they will actually and literally hear His voice as the King of kings to serve Him during His thousand year reign, then they are being made to be of the one fold & one Shepherd..

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

John 10:26 explains the why and hw in John 10:16

How do you apply your list of scriptural references with Him? For how God will judge His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) at the pre great trib rapture event when He appears as the Bridegroom as He is faithful to keep the souls of His saints left behind that will suffer the fiery calamity coming on the earth & the great tribulation afterwards.

If you consider that day being referred to in 1 Corinthians 3:13 for how they will incur a physical death per 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 so that their saved spirits will be present with the Lord in Heaven in 1 Corinthians 3:15, then you may discern what will happen to hose left behind that are His but have defiled the temple of God with iniquities which includes heresy that denies Him in some shape or form or fashion.

1 Corinthians 3:0 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

If you remember our confidence in Jesus Christ that He will finish His work in us for those that run that race as saved believers rather than deny Him that He is our Savior for we are saved, then He will finish His work even in those left behind that ran that race to obtain salvation rather than as saved believers. That foundation is not going anywhere because Jesus laid it and that seal of adoption is not going anywhere either.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
All of those scriptural references in your quote as listed, are not being rightly divided since they can not go against scripture below.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

To be continued... because of post limit
The Fathers will is an interesting concept isn,t it? One that most should consider of themselves. And obediance is the key.
 

Hark

Well-known member
The Fathers will is an interesting concept isn,t it? One that most should consider of themselves. And obediance is the key.
Seeing how the only obedience He has learned was to the cross all of the consequences of suffering and death by that obedience.

Try this on for your obedience; ask the Father to reveal His Son to you in case you are not seeing His Son for Whom He is as God.

Makes sure you are being honest with the Father for asking this if you are overlooking something because of an errant belief for not seeing the truth in His words. Because believers can be subverted, ask the Father to help you be honest in seeking the truth because you want to be honest and straight with the Father in representing Him as well a in how you represent His Son.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Seeing how the only obedience He has learned was to the cross all of the consequences of suffering and death by that obedience.
The cross was not the only thing he scuffed. He suffered many things and His real suffering was from rejection by his own followers. This is where he shed a tear. Try and think in his terms, his heart, his mind.
Try this on for your obedience; ask the Father to reveal His Son to you in case you are not seeing His Son for Whom He is as God.
Why would I do that again when He already has answered that prayer?
Makes sure you are being honest with the Father for asking this if you are overlooking something because of an errant belief for not seeing the truth in His words. Because believers can be subverted, ask the Father to help you be honest in seeking the truth because you want to be honest and straight with the Father in representing Him as well a in how you represent His Son.
Jesus said come unto me -- In every degree that you are not real will dispute instead of come. It is never Gods will that we be anything less than absolutely complete in Him. And beware of anything that will split up your oneness in Him and see yourself separately from Him. And the reason God cannot come into a life is because of not being through into repentance.

The revelation of the Christ is exactly that Christ revealed in me, and in that the son of God is displayed in me.

God is not asking me to be like other people as yourself, He is asking me to be exactly like Himself.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
All of those scriptural references in your quote as listed, are not being rightly divided since they can not go against scripture below.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

To be continued... because of post limit
They don't "go against" they can't, the problem is your understanding.
 

Hark

Well-known member
The cross was not the only thing he scuffed. He suffered many things and His real suffering was from rejection by his own followers. This is where he shed a tear. Try and think in his terms, his heart, his mind.
Scripture only defined His obedience as to the cross. Not towards anything else.
Why would I do that again when He already has answered that prayer?
Because that was the only way He had learned obedience. You seemed to insist on obedience as Christ has done but that was only in regards to the cross.
Jesus said come unto me -- In every degree that you are not real will dispute instead of come.
Coming to Jesus is the same as coming to God the Father and when He said He is the only way, even after all the other saints that have died from Stephen, Peter, & Paul and so forth, that commandment of His invitation to come to God the Father is still only by coming to Jesus Christ because He is God; not you nor I because we got anointed with the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ at our salvation.
It is never Gods will that we be anything less than absolutely complete in Him.
We are complete in Him.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

But running that race or discipleship is not the same thing as salvation or saying you do not have His Spirit because He still abides in former believers. Former Believers Are Still Saved You cannot refute that or apply that to your theology which proves you are not rightly dividing the word of truth for why you need to ask God the Father to reveal His Son to you that Jesus Christ is God.
And beware of anything that will split up your oneness in Him and see yourself separately from Him. And the reason God cannot come into a life is because of not being through into repentance.
God is calling you to repentance by believing that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ As God Before His Incarnation As Seen By O.T. Saints
The revelation of the Christ is exactly that Christ revealed in me, and in that the son of God is displayed in me.
Currently denying the deity of Christ proves that you need the Father's help to see His Son as God.
God is not asking me to be like other people as yourself, He is asking me to be exactly like Himself.
And how are you doing that? By the flesh? By doing the best you can to square your life away to the standards of Jesus? Sounds religious to me.
 

Hark

Well-known member
They don't "go against" they can't, the problem is your understanding.
My point also but the other way around.

Those former believers left behind that deny Him for why He denies them are still saved because He still abides in them.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Paul gives an example of a former believer yet they too are still called to depart from iniquity to avoid being left behind as damned to be vessels unto dishonor in His House but still in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So when a saved believer departs from iniquity with His help & by His grace, then they have hope in Him to inherit the eternal glory that comes with our salvation of being received as that vessel unto honor in His House when the Bridegroom comes to receive to the Marriage Supper above.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory....... 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
My point also but the other way around.

Those former believers left behind that deny Him for why He denies them are still saved because He still abides in them.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Paul gives an example of a former believer yet they too are still called to depart from iniquity to avoid being left behind as damned to be vessels unto dishonor in His House but still in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So when a saved believer departs from iniquity with His help & by His grace, then they have hope in Him to inherit the eternal glory that comes with our salvation of being received as that vessel unto honor in His House when the Bridegroom comes to receive to the Marriage Supper above.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory....... 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Once save always saved doesn't exist. Its made up.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
Once save always saved doesn't exist. Its made up.
1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade.
This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,
5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation.
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Shielded by the POWER of GOD!
Sealed by the Holy Spirit
can NEVER perish, spoil or fade.
PROMISED by God
GUARANTEED
through faith
when we believed:


How much stronger does it need to be worded for you to believe /TRUST the promises of God?
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade.
This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,
5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation.
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Shielded by the POWER of GOD!
Sealed by the Holy Spirit
can NEVER perish, spoil or fade.
PROMISED by God
GUARANTEED
through faith
when we believed:


How much stronger does it need to be worded for you to believe /TRUST the promises of God?
I do trust the promises of God what I don't trust is the silliness of man. NOTHING you quoted supports osas. Its what you believe it says but that's not what it says.

In 2 Tim 4:7 if Paul believed in osas he used awfully peculiar language to tell us. If he was saved once and always them why did the have to fight the godd fight or had to keep the faith? If he had to keep the faith and fight the good fight he didn't think he was saved once and for all. You need to rethink your position.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Once save always saved doesn't exist. Its made up.
Then explain or rightly divide the scripture provided in post # 8 that proves OSAS to prove otherwise that OSAS was made up. Here is a shorter version of that post for you to address.

Those former believers left behind that deny Him for why He denies them are still saved because He still abides in them.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Apply verse 12 & 13 to your theology against the OSAS then. I do not see how you can.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
I do trust the promises of God what I don't trust is the silliness of man. NOTHING you quoted supports osas. Its what you believe it says but that's not what it says.

In 2 Tim 4:7 if Paul believed in osas he used awfully peculiar language to tell us. If he was saved once and always them why did the have to fight the godd fight or had to keep the faith? If he had to keep the faith and fight the good fight he didn't think he was saved once and for all. You need to rethink your position.
where did Paul say he had to keep the faith and fight the good fight ?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Scripture only defined His obedience as to the cross. Not towards anything else.
So he went through the trials and tribulations beatings, sweat blood because he only went on his own initiative to see what it was like? and went to a cross because he was obedient only to the cross? Seems to me if one sweat blood there was a great deal of stress involved and dedication to the Father in obediance to him did he learn obediance. He had a choice you know, he could have walked away from all of this.
Because that was the only way He had learned obedience. You seemed to insist on obedience as Christ has done but that was only in regards to the cross.
Not at all it is in obediance to receive from God the same as Jesus received from Him. Jesus obediance started in Matt 3:16 up until that tome he was of the laws of the temple and had he not obeyed God and stayed in that temple teaching law he never would have suffered the cross for the very ones he once taught in the temples even from a young age are the very ones who had him crucified for blaspheme. Jesus obediance started in Matt 3:16. And we are no different at all, some obey and receive from God that what Jesus did and most dont.
Coming to Jesus is the same as coming to God the Father and when He said He is the only way, even after all the other saints that have died from Stephen, Peter, & Paul and so forth, that commandment of His invitation to come to God the Father is still only by coming to Jesus Christ because He is God; not you nor I because we got anointed with the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ at our salvation.
Yes agree, coming to Jesus is to come to him in the same place he was in the Father. He in you and you in Him as one as Jesus was one in Him. And when one does come to the same place Jesus was in the Father one knows God is a Spirit and not a man at all. Spirit doesnt have flesh and bone as you see Jesus. Jesus was clear about that with Thomas.
We are complete in Him.
Yes His sons, same as Jesus was complete in Him, same mind, same walk as He walks in His same light, holy, pure and without sin.
Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Again -- His sons are complete in Him same as Jesus was complete in Him, same mind, same walk as He walks in His same light, holy, pure and without sin.
But running that race or discipleship is not the same thing as salvation or saying you do not have His Spirit because He still abides in former believers. Former Believers Are Still Saved You cannot refute that or apply that to your theology which proves you are not rightly dividing the word of truth for why you need to ask God the Father to reveal His Son to you that Jesus Christ is God.
Gods salvation is Him manifest in you, there is no other salvation to be had from God. And there is no other way to rightly divide the word from the laws you present and the reality of having God as your own disposition.
God is calling you to repentance by believing that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ As God Before His Incarnation As Seen By O.T. Saints
He did that 50 years ago. The problem in most is they are not complete in repentance to received from God that what Jesus and Abraham, and Moses and 120 received from Him themselves.
Currently denying the deity of Christ proves that you need the Father's help to see His Son as God.
Actually the deity of the Christ is at work in us all who has received Him. It isnt I who denies His deity, I live in it.
And how are you doing that? By the flesh? By doing the best you can to square your life away to the standards of Jesus? Sounds religious to me.
No by obediance to receive from the Father that what Jesus received from Him. No flesh inherits His kingdom. or have you not heard? And it isnt an effort to square my life with Christs standards at all -- it comes through obediance to repentance from self that atonement is made where I received grace for grace.

And I do understand how and why that atonement sounds religious for you.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I do trust the promises of God what I don't trust is the silliness of man. NOTHING you quoted supports osas. Its what you believe it says but that's not what it says.

In 2 Tim 4:7 if Paul believed in osas he used awfully peculiar language to tell us. If he was saved once and always them why did the have to fight the godd fight or had to keep the faith? If he had to keep the faith and fight the good fight he didn't think he was saved once and for all. You need to rethink your position.

You IGNORE all the passages which teach eternal security (eg. John 6:44, John 10:28-29, etc.), you provide NO passages denying eternal security, only cite one verse which you think is "awfully peculiar language" in your PERSONAL OPINION.

2 Tim. 4:7 doesn't say that he "had to" keep the faith, or that he "had to" fight the good fight.
Only that he did.
And the reason he did was because he had eternal security.

Just admit it... The reason you reject eternal security is not because it's not Biblical, it's simply because you don't WANT to accept it.

And that's not a sufficient reason for us to "rethink our position".
We will continue to believe the Bible.
 

Hark

Well-known member
where did Paul say he had to keep the faith and fight the good fight ?
Paul said it not for obtaining nor keeping his salvation, but to be found ready as abiding in Him to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House by the Bridegroom when He appears to take him to the Marriage Supper above.

Paul said this twice; the first time in exhortation to Timothy and then the second time by His grace and by His help as setting the example.

1 Timothy 6: 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

2 Timothy 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Those saved believers that are disqualified & thus left behind to be resurrected later on after the great tribulation are the vessels unto dishonor that are in His House also called the least in the kingdom of heaven if you refer to Matthew 5:19 as ones that broke the least of His commandments and teaches others so. They will testify to the power of God in salvation to all those who believed in Him, even former believers, that believed in His name. That is why those vessels, of wood and of earth, are in His House per 2 Timothy 2:20-21 that did not depart from iniquity before He comes.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
Paul said it not for obtaining nor keeping his salvation, but to be found ready as abiding in Him to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House by the Bridegroom when He appears to take him to the Marriage Supper above.

Paul said this twice; the first time in exhortation to Timothy and then the second time by His grace and by His help as setting the example.

1 Timothy 6: 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

2 Timothy 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Those saved believers that are disqualified & thus left behind to be resurrected later on after the great tribulation are the vessels unto dishonor that are in His House also called the least in the kingdom of heaven if you refer to Matthew 5:19 as ones that broke the least of His commandments and teaches others so. They will testify to the power of God in salvation to all those who believed in Him, even former believers, that believed in His name. That is why those vessels, of wood and of earth, are in His House per 2 Timothy 2:20-21 that did not depart from iniquity before He comes.
is it possible for the elect not to be saved?
 

Hark

Well-known member
So he went through the trials and tribulations beatings, sweat blood because he only went on his own initiative to see what it was like? and went to a cross because he was obedient only to the cross? Seems to me if one sweat blood there was a great deal of stress involved and dedication to the Father in obediance to him did he learn obediance. He had a choice you know, he could have walked away from all of this.
You are forgetting His prayer in the garden of Gethsemane whereby He prayed that this cup be taken away from Him but nevertheless He prayed that the Father's will be done and not His own. That is evidence of Him learning obedience because everything else, He had no trouble as even the demons yielded to His commands along with the waves and storms of the sea.
Not at all it is in obediance to receive from God the same as Jesus received from Him. Jesus obediance started in Matt 3:16 up until that tome he was of the laws of the temple and had he not obeyed God and stayed in that temple teaching law he never would have suffered the cross for the very ones he once taught in the temples even from a young age are the very ones who had him crucified for blaspheme. Jesus obediance started in Matt 3:16. And we are no different at all, some obey and receive from God that what Jesus did and most dont.
No. What price did He had to go through in being water baptized to learn obedience for? And more importantly, if you apply that moment in Jesus's life as starting His obedience, then what about when He was little and His earthly parents were looking for Him but found Him at the Temple educating the elders from the scripture when Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? So that verse reproves how you are applying Matthew 3:16 to mean. You need Him to correct your teaching.
Yes agree, coming to Jesus is to come to him in the same place he was in the Father. He in you and you in Him as one as Jesus was one in Him. And when one does come to the same place Jesus was in the Father one knows God is a Spirit and not a man at all. Spirit doesnt have flesh and bone as you see Jesus. Jesus was clear about that with Thomas.
Yet Thomas was clear with Him in calling Him God and worshipped Him as God afterwards with nary a rebuke from the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Yes His sons, same as Jesus was complete in Him, same mind, same walk as He walks in His same light, holy, pure and without sin.

Again -- His sons are complete in Him same as Jesus was complete in Him, same mind, same walk as He walks in His same light, holy, pure and without sin.

Gods salvation is Him manifest in you, there is no other salvation to be had from God. And there is no other way to rightly divide the word from the laws you present and the reality of having God as your own disposition.
Except for scripture testifying to the deity of Christ Jesus as God which is why you need His help to align all of scripture with your theology which will causes pruning in your theology in order to bear more fruit per John 15:2.
He did that 50 years ago. The problem in most is they are not complete in repentance to received from God that what Jesus and Abraham, and Moses and 120 received from Him themselves.
Then for you the race is over but for Paul, he was still running it daily, looking to Jesus Christ to help him lay aside every weight & sin. So something is wrong with your theology.
Actually the deity of the Christ is at work in us all who has received Him. It isnt I who denies His deity, I live in it.
Christ is that Rock. Jesus is God for why He was crucified and that was before His resurrection & ascension. That is your conundrum.
No by obediance to receive from the Father that what Jesus received from Him. No flesh inherits His kingdom. or have you not heard? And it isnt an effort to square my life with Christs standards at all -- it comes through obediance to repentance from self that atonement is made where I received grace for grace.
By your theology, what then was the purpose of Him being conceived by the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin Mary? Why was He about doing His Father's business way before Matthew 3:16 event? So the anointing we had received is not what had happened at Matthew 3:16 event. Matthew 3:16's event was the Father & the Holy Ghost testifying that Jesus is God in fulfillment of the prophesy in Isaiah 48:16-17
And I do understand how and why that atonement sounds religious for you.
I square my life away by looking to Jesus Christ as my God & Savior to help me to lay aside every weight & sin in running that race. My confidence is in Him to finish what He has started because Jesus is the author & finisher of my faith as my hope rests solely on Him for all things.

So if you are not running that race like that but looking to yourself to do this and to finish... then yeah, be pretty hard for you to say you are not religious like the unsaved Jews were and still are, presently, that do not believe Jesus Christ is God their Saviour.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
where did Paul say he had to keep the faith and fight the good fight ?
One should be careful when they quote scripture...that is not simply present one line of scripture.

Here's the whole verse....from it where do you get the concept you can lose your salvation?

5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 From now on there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but to all who crave His appearing.
 

Hark

Well-known member
is it possible for the elect not to be saved?
The truth here is.. those left behind saints and even former believers are still saved but disqualified to attend the Marriage supper in Heaven. They will be resurrected after the great tribulation. This is where the least in the kingdom of heaven comes from and where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

That foundation is not going anywhere and neither will that seal of adoption, but He will judge what is on that foundation in that day verse 13.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
 
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