Why OSAS Is True

Hark

Well-known member
unless one makes you a god to worship.
Can you find an example of a disciple or an apostle being worshipped? Are we worshiping any past saints in Heaven even?

Then any worship of Jesus has to be seen as worshiping God which we are not. Capisce/
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Can you find an example of a disciple or an apostle being worshipped? Are we worshiping any past saints in Heaven even?
How many times have you said Paul as a sinner had it right? One of these was a sinner and one of these was not. Most follow the one who was the sinner instead of the one who was without sin.

You cant know what sin is without knowing what it is to be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect and without sin. And that comes by you having His same mind, which is His SPirit, else you never will understand what sin is. Sin is separation from Him. Flat out denting Him to be like Him as He demands of us all.
Then any worship of Jesus has to be seen as worshiping God which we are not. Capisce/
Any worship of Jesus is to substitute the One who sent Jesus to show you what it is to be in the Father for yourself.
AN Idol instead of a teacher.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Jesus said he was speaking about HIS God.

In Trinity world, God the Son is referring to God the Father as his God.


We need to discern to know when Jesus spoke from his humanity as a man, and when he was presenting the perspective of his Deity through his humanity.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
After Paul warns that we are to avoid certain believers? We are to ignore nobody?

I guess I am the one who must put you back on ignore.

You admit a lot of people do put you on ignore? And, they are all immature for doing so?

I see. You are Christ now...
Actually Christ is Gods anointing, man anointed of God by His mind be our own. .
God has revealed Himself to me. Powerfully. But you? I've known people like you. Truly like you.
Yes there are a few of us who has seen the Father to be like Him. 1 John 3. When He reveals Himself in you one cant help but be like Him. We have His same mind, Spirit and think in His terms instead of a belief about Him.
Have a nice Day...
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
We need to discern to know when Jesus spoke from his humanity as a man, and when he was presenting the perspective of his Deity through his humanity.
That's nice but it won't change this fact:

In Trinity world, God the Son is referring to God the Father as his God.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
That's nice but it won't change this fact:

In Trinity world, God the Son is referring to God the Father as his God.
feel free to be what the Bible calls.......


Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but whoever hates correction is stupid.

Proverbs 12:1
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
That's nice but it won't change this fact:

In Trinity world, God the Son is referring to God the Father as his God.
His humanity is to be our role model...

No one comes to the Father except THROUGH Him.

If He were only a man? It would stop with Himself, and not get to the Father.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
His humanity is to be our role model...
Yes for us to be exactly as he
No one comes to the Father except THROUGH Him.
Not through him by him. I am the way the truth and the life and no one come to the Father least you have the same as he.
If He were only a man? It would stop with Himself, and not get to the Father.
It did stop with himself. He did say it is finished, there is noting more he can say or do to lead you to the same place in the Father he was at in the Father.
 

Josiah

Member
What does Scripture state?


'ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED'


Gospel:


Romans 8:29-39, For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. "

Mark 13:22, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.

John 4:14, "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 20:28, I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

1 Thessalonians. 5:24, "The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Hebrews 10:14, "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.


Revelation 3:5, "I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels."

I hold that all the above is true and correct.



Law:

John 15:4-7, "Remain in me, and I will remain in you... If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Revelation 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

John 8:31, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really My disciples."

Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

Galatians 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Colossians 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

Hebrews 10:26, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

2 Peter 1:8-10, "But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Revelation 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.

Luke 12:8, "He who disowns Me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."

I hold that all the above is true and correct.


As so often in theology, we find there are "two sides of the coin." To ME, the approach is NOT to take all the Scriptures, subject them to our limited, fallable, sinful, puny brain and force them to "fit" and "make sense" to US. Essentially, choosing which to accept and which to reject (by interpreting them to mean the opposite of what they state). To ME, the better approach is to accept both "sets" of scriptures as God stated them, and allow them to stand in all their truth and power just as God inspired them.

Perhaps the best approach is to consider how to APPLY them (nothing their context) rather than choosing which to accept and which to reject, or in how to force them to fit together according to our fallible, limited logic. Not in accepting one "set" and explaining away the other in the light of it.


MY view...


- Josiah



.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Once one has received from God that what Jesus did in Matt 3:16, which is His salvation where He opens up all of His heaven to you, there is no way to deny it, you cant undo that what God has reveled to you Himself. Gods salvation is Him manifest in you. The only way one can walk away from a salvation is if they never was saved by God at all where He reveals Himself as He die in Jesus, Abraham, Moses, Mary, Jesus in Matt 3:16, 120 in an upper room, and us all today who has seen Him as He is. 1 John 3 and when you do see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. that is His salvation and there is none other who is of Love for God is Love. Not many have actually seen Him to be as He is have they, which simply is Love for God is Love and man is the temple of Him. Again not many are of Him to be like Him as He demands of us to be in His same image are they.
 

Josiah

Member
Once one has received from God that what Jesus did in Matt 3:16, which is His salvation where He opens up all of His heaven to you, there is no way to deny it, you cant undo that what God has reveled to you Himself. Gods salvation is Him manifest in you. The only way one can walk away from a salvation is if they never was saved by God at all where He reveals Himself as He die in Jesus, Abraham, Moses, Mary, Jesus in Matt 3:16, 120 in an upper room, and us all today who has seen Him as He is. 1 John 3 and when you do see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. that is His salvation and there is none other who is of Love for God is Love. Not many have actually seen Him to be as He is have they, which simply is Love for God is Love and man is the temple of Him. Again not many are of Him to be like Him as He demands of us to be in His same image are they.


Then God's Word seems untrue.... or at least greatly misleading.

John 15:4-7, "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

It's impossible to "remain" saved if one was never saved.

Revelation 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

If it's impossible to NOT stand firm to the end, then Jesus is speaking nonsense.


1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

It's impossible to "abandon" something you didn't first have.


Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

If it's impossible to fall away, then Jesus is wrong.


John 8:31, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really My disciples."

Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

They WERE faithful... but not now. Pretty much the definition of "falling away."



Galatians 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

It's impossible to "fall away from" something that you never had.


Colossians 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

Hebrews 10:26, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

2 Peter 1:8-10, "But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Revelation 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.

Luke 12:8, "He who disowns Me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."

... and many more.


See post 291



- Josiah




.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Then God's Word seems untrue.... or at least greatly misleading.
Only if you do not follow the instructions in it.
John 15:4-7, "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."
Yes He in you and you in Him as one as Jesus weas one in Him, John 17.
It's impossible to "remain" saved if one was never saved.
Agreed and Gods salvation is He manifest in you to be identified with Him and walk as He walks in His same light, same mind. There is no other salvation to be had from the God who is Love.
Revelation 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Yes and obediance to receieve from Him as Jesus received from Him in obediance is the key to Gods kingdom. ANd it doesnt come with observation it is within you. Luke 17:20-21
Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

If it's impossible to NOT stand firm to the end, then Jesus is speaking nonsense.
And when one see Him as He is, ye shall be like Him and in that salvation is is to be like Him. 1 John 3.
1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

It's impossible to "abandon" something you didn't first have.
Yes and many assume themselves to be in a certain condition they never have been in to be Gods anointed as Jesus was anointed of God, which is Christ in you. Most do not know what it is to be in Christ to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.
Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

If it's impossible to fall away, then Jesus is wrong.
Yes and the test is are you like Him.
John 8:31, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really My disciples."
Yes you will be like Him as Jesus was like Him.
Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."
Walk as He walks in His same light with the same signs following. Not many do.
Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

They WERE faithful... but not now. Pretty much the definition of "falling away."
Yes Jesus own disciples flat out denied him to be identified with him in his trials and tribulations, not one claimed they know him.
Galatians 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

It's impossible to "fall away from" something that you never had.
Yes either you are like Him or you are not.
Colossians 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

Hebrews 10:26, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

2 Peter 1:8-10, "But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Revelation 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.
And we who has overcome sit with Him in His throne. Rev 3:21
Luke 12:8, "He who disowns Me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."

... and many more.
Yes as stated his own disciples denied to be identified with him.
See post 291



- Josiah




.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Then God's Word seems untrue.... or at least greatly misleading.

John 15:4-7, "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

It's impossible to "remain" saved if one was never saved.

Revelation 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

If it's impossible to NOT stand firm to the end, then Jesus is speaking nonsense.

1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

It's impossible to "abandon" something you didn't first have.

Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

If it's impossible to fall away, then Jesus is wrong.

John 8:31, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really My disciples."

Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."

Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

They WERE faithful... but not now. Pretty much the definition of "falling away."


Galatians 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

It's impossible to "fall away from" something that you never had.

Colossians 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."

Hebrews 10:26, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

2 Peter 1:8-10, "But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure."

2 Peter 3:17, "Be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."

Revelation 3:5, He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.

Luke 12:8, "He who disowns Me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."

... and many more.


See post 291



- Josiah




.
You know everyone of those verses can be explained as to what they speak of.

But, to start off on the right foot one must stop saying Jesus was a liar. Because to make those verses fit your desired outcome one must make Jesus out to be a liar. Its quite simple. When we know that God can not lie, it makes an honest believer seek answers other than half thought out leaps of presumption.

Here is your lying Jesus, speaking plainly.

"And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who
believes in Me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. All that
the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have
come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the
Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last
day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may
have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:35-40


To be calling Jesus a liar reveals what spirit appeals to you?

So far what you confessed means you still want to be your own savior. Pride. Save yourself from the Lake of Fire by your works.

For Jesus to lose just one who came to Him? Would mean that Jesus failed to do the Father's will.

You need to straighten up and fly right.

First.. Stop calling Jesus a liar, and find out what those passages you plastered an the wall really pertain to..
 

Josiah

Member
You know everyone of those verses can be explained as to what they speak of.

No need. I believe that Jesus said what He meant and meant what He said. I hold that for all Scripture. I think some appoint self to just "explain away" (completely) what Jesus said, often by insisting that Jesus actually MEANT the exact opposite of what He said.

See post 293.



So far what you confessed means you still want to be your own savior. Pride. Save yourself from the Lake of Fire by your works.


I stated NOTHING that remotely so indicates.

I simply quoted Scripture. Verbatim. And believed. And noted that in some cases, it makes no sense at all if what OSAS claims is true; what is required (over and over and over again) is to spin the words 180 degrees, based on the claim that often Scripture says the exact opposite of what is stated.

See post 293.




.


 

GeneZ

Well-known member
No need. I believe that Jesus said what He meant and meant what He said. I hold that for all Scripture. I think some appoint self to just "explain away" (completely) what Jesus said, often by insisting that Jesus actually MEANT the exact opposite of what He said.

And, that means, He meant what he said when he said the following.


If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away.
For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your
whole body be thrown into hell." Matthew 5:29​

Why not start the "First Church of the One Eyes?"

You should be good at it.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

If it's impossible to NOT stand firm to the end, then Jesus is speaking nonsense.
Stand firm in what?

20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Just to clarify, who is the author and perfector of YOUR faith?
1. Jesus?
2. You?

Read the context of this passage again. Will you be the one handing people over or will you be one of those being handed over?
Surely you know whether your faith is dependent on self, or on Jesus who indwells "you"

"Saved" with your un-spiritual self will choices leads you to become un"saved" through your un-spiritual self will choices...
Good luck with that...
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

If it's impossible to NOT stand firm to the end, then Jesus is speaking nonsense.
If I may ask? Who was Jesus speaking to? Christians? Or, Jews?

The Jews knew from the prophets that God was going to come to earth and set up His kingdom.

Jesus was speaking to Jews as a rabbi.


“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children
will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will
be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm
to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee
to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns
of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Matthew 10:21-23

"Those who endure to the end (of the Tribulation) will be Delivered!"



Those ones will enter into the Millennium alive. For they will see the return of Christ!

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel
before the Son of Man comes
."


Jesus was teaching Jews... not the church.

The church was yet a hidden mystery to be later sprung upon everyone with great surprise.
 

Josiah

Member
See post 291


IMO, Scripture is BOLD and CLEAR on this;... in many, many Scriptures. Sure, anyone can insist that actually God MEANT the exact opposite of what He states, but it is still clear what He states.


John 15:4-7, "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

It's impossible to "remain" saved if one was never saved. Yes, it's obvious He's speaking of salvation since note what is the case if one does not REMAIN in Him.


Revelation 2:10, "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

So, we need to be faithful unto death.... but if it's impossible to NOT remain faithful, this this verse is nonsense.


Matthew 10:22, "He who stands firm to the end will be saved."

If it's impossible to NOT stand firm to the end, then Jesus is speaking nonsense. Note, the point is specifically salvation.


1 Timothy 4:1, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

It's impossible to "abandon" something you didn't first have.


Luke 8:13, "They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

If it's impossible to fall away, then Jesus is wrong to say they "fall away." If OSAS is true, Jesus would have to say, "but in a time of testing, they cannot fall away."



Luke 21:19, "By standing firm you will gain life."

The topic is salvation.... there is a requirement to stand firm; if we cannot do otherwise then this verse is nonsense.


Hebrews 8:9, "They did not remain faithful to My covenant, and I turned away from them"

They WERE faithful... but not now. Pretty much the definition of "falling away."


Galatians 5:4, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

It's impossible to "fall away from" something that you never had. Note context is justification.


Colossians 1:23, "If you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel."


Hebrews 10:26, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."


2 Peter 1:8-10, "But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure."


Luke 12:8, "He who disowns Me before men will be disowned before the angels of God."


... and many more.



See post 291



.
 
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