Why OSAS Is True

Hark

Well-known member
One should be careful when they quote scripture...that is not simply present one line of scripture.

Here's the whole verse....from it where do you get the concept you can lose your salvation?

5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 From now on there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but to all who crave His appearing.
One can not lose their salvation, but they can lose their inheritance in being part of the firstfruits of the resurrection, but like the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living, he will find that he can return because he is still son.

The truth here is.. those left behind saints and even former believers are still saved but disqualified to attend the Marriage supper in Heaven. They will be resurrected after the great tribulation. This is where the least in the kingdom of heaven comes from and where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

That foundation is not going anywhere and neither will that seal of adoption, but He will judge what is on that foundation in that day verse 13.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

So there is cause to run that race by faith, looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily, but not for obtaining salvation, but the high prize of our calling, to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House to His glory.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
One can not lose their salvation, but they can lose their inheritance in being part of the firstfruits of the resurrection, but like the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living, he will find that he can return because he is still son.

I agree. One cannot lose their salvation.

I'm not sure what you mean by inheritance...
From the 1 Corinthians 3:10 verse you posted there can be a loss of rewards.

The truth here is.. those left behind saints and even former believers are still saved but disqualified to attend the Marriage supper in Heaven. They will be resurrected after the great tribulation. This is where the least in the kingdom of heaven comes from and where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House.
I pretty much disagree with the above. I don't see any scripture that says that. That is some saints will be left behind at the rapture or miss the supper.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

That foundation is not going anywhere and neither will that seal of adoption, but He will judge what is on that foundation in that day verse 13.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

So there is cause to run that race by faith, looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily, but not for obtaining salvation, but the high prize of our calling, to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House to His glory.
 

Hark

Well-known member
I agree. One cannot lose their salvation.
Amen. Discipleship aka running that race is about the high prize of our calling to be that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage supper in Heaven in His honor and to His glory as we shall be the works of His hands and any crowns we receive are His crowning achievements in us for why the elders and we shall cast our crowns at His feet. .
I'm not sure what you mean by inheritance...
The prodigal son gave up his inheritance for wild living. He can never get it back, but he is still son. Being left behind is the loss of that firstfruit of the resurrection for being in iniquity still when the Bridegroom appears and thus not fund ready as abiding in Him & His words as His disciples.
From the 1 Corinthians 3:10 verse you posted there can be a loss of rewards.
Paul says about running that race, that there is more than the the consequence of a simply loss of rewards in losing their crowns, but even Paul said he could become a castaway also.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
I pretty much disagree with the above. I don't see any scripture that says that. That is some saints will be left behind at the rapture or miss the supper.
There are scripture as directly addressing that. Jesus warned for the times we are living in now that we are to pray for help to escape because saved believers may be overcharged for the cares of this life that they will not want to leave Luke 21:33-36 This truth is conveyed in regards to the King's Supper in how those invited make excuses not to come for the everyday cares of life Luke 14:15-24 Be sure to click on & read.

We even see how some guests arrives without a wedding garment on as anyone seeing justification or to make themselves good by the deeds of the law will be found naked of their faith in Jesus Christ as the law voids faith and thus the nakedness of not having that wedding garment.

Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The only way for that naked man to be there is because he is saved but because he resorted to the works of the law, faith is made void, and the promise is made to none effect as he will have to be resurrected later on after the great tribulation to be that vessel unto dishonor that is still in His House because that foundation is not going anywhere and neither is that seal of adoption for the prodigal son is still son no matter what.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You are forgetting His prayer in the garden of Gethsemane whereby He prayed that this cup be taken away from Him but nevertheless He prayed that the Father's will be done and not His own. That is evidence of Him learning obedience because everything else, He had no trouble as even the demons yielded to His commands along with the waves and storms of the sea.
He did pray that this cup pass from him, but he learned obediance and knew what was in store for his stance in the Father. Without that obediance to God, he could have walks away form it all.
No. What price did He had to go through in being water baptized to learn obedience for?
Water didnt open all of Gods heaven to him, Gods SPirit opened all of His heaven to him.
And more importantly, if you apply that moment in Jesus's life as starting His obedience, then what about when He was little and His earthly parents were looking for Him but found Him at the Temple educating the elders from the scripture when Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? So that verse reproves how you are applying Matthew 3:16 to mean.
Matt 3:16 says God came to Jesus by His SPirit and opened all of His heaven to that man. If that is a difficuilty for you to understand them perhaps it isn I who who nees the reprove?

I had youth in my class at the age of 12 who could teach the law as well as any seasoned preacher and better than most. That is nothing sensational only dedication to learn the laws of the temples. Anyone can learn the laws of the temples even Satan who knows them well,

But if you will read on, the very ones Jesus taught at a young age until he was about 30, are th every ones who had him crucified for blaspheme did they not?

You tell me what happened that this 12 year old who was revered for his knowledge of the law by these suddenly became a blasphemer, wine bibber, glutton, worthy of exaction?

You are not thinking this thing through in reality.
You need Him to correct your teaching.
He did, you are only trying to correct his teachings to think in your terms instead of His.
Yet Thomas was clear with Him in calling Him God and worshipped Him as God afterwards with nary a rebuke from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thomas didnt call him God, when jesus said to him Spirit doesnt have flesh and bone as you see me then Thomas said my Lord and my God. He was not referring to Jesus but the same God who is SPirit and not flesh and bone. Seems your god is flesh and bone. Even Thomas learned this difference, So did Adam see Gen 3:22, so did Abraham, so did Moses, so did Jesus in Matt 3;l16, so did 120.
John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord.
SO have I he is SPirit.
But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
he was as you looking for a man as a god.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
He stands in the midst of all this day who is of his SPirit.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
1 John 3 and when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. Thomas saw, just as Jesus saw in Matt 3;16, 120 saw, Adam Moses, Abraham saw. God never has changed at all, same from the beginning as He is today and Thomas was no different in receiving from God as Jesus and these did.
Except for scripture testifying to the deity of Christ Jesus as God which is why you need His help to align all of scripture with your theology which will causes pruning in your theology in order to bear more fruit per John 15:2.
All who is anointed of God by His SPirit walk in the deity of the Christ. SO you can help my understanding better them God Himself can? What has God not considered to teach me that you have considered to teach me?

What makes you over Him that I should follow you instead of Him?
Then for you the race is over but for Paul, he was still running it daily, looking to Jesus Christ to help him lay aside every weight & sin. So something is wrong with your theology.
We who has received from God that wat jesus received form Him it is finished. Noting more Jesus or God can say or do to convince you to be in Him and He in you as one. To receive from Him as Jesus did is in your hands not His.
Christ is that Rock. Jesus is God for why He was crucified and that was before His resurrection & ascension. That is your conundrum.
Chait is the rock and Christ is Gods anointing in man, the mercy seat, the place God comes together as one, anointed of God.

Jesus was not God he was anointed of God. Gods anointed, so are all who has His same anointing, Christ in you. Christ is not in you is He?
By your theology, what then was the purpose of Him being conceived by the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin Mary?
All are virgin to Gods SPirit until His seed i planted in you His bride and His bride gives birth to His seed which is Christ in you. Adam, Abraham, Moses, Mary, Jesus, 120, all of these were virgin to Him until God came into them by His SPirit and all today are no different than these. You are still that virgin arent you?
Why was He about doing His Father's business way before Matthew 3:16 event?
Same reason the youth in my class did the same.
So the anointing we had received is not what had happened at Matthew 3:16 event. Matthew 3:16's event was the Father & the Holy Ghost testifying that Jesus is God in fulfillment of the prophesy in Isaiah 48:16-17
isnt what you mean is -- the anointing you have received is not the same as Jesus received from God? That is pretty obvious for your rejection of the Father jesus came to lead you to.
I square my life away by looking to Jesus Christ as my God & Savior to help me to lay aside every weight & sin in running that race.
Yes away form the Spirit of God who was in Christ Jesus. And jesus is only savior if you follow him to the same place in the Father he was in the Father. he didnt come to save you at all, he came that ye might be saved. But you seem to have different ideas about God manifest in you which is His salvation for you to walk as He walks in His same light.
My confidence is in Him to finish what He has started because Jesus is the author & finisher of my faith as my hope rests solely on Him for all things.
If your confidence was in him you would be like him.
So if you are not running that race like that but looking to yourself to do this and to finish... then yeah, be pretty hard for you to say you are not religious like the unsaved Jews were and still are, presently, that do not believe Jesus Christ is God their Saviour.
I ran the race, it is finished just as Jesus said it is. Noting more he can do or say. All IO can do now is apply in myself from the Father that what Jesus came to lead me to. And that doesnt seem to be good enough for you.

Is Jesus really your savior who leads you to the Father who does the saving for Him to be in you and He in you as one -- or is your religious beliefs made substitute that you would dictate to Him your salvation which doesnt allow you to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect as jesus was perfect in Him?
 

Hark

Well-known member
He did pray that this cup pass from him, but he learned obediance and knew what was in store for his stance in the Father. Without that obediance to God, he could have walks away form it all.
Since He prayed that the Father's will be done and not His own, He was not considering disobedience at all in that prayer. Think of it like Abraham & Isaac where an offering was provided to spare the life of Isaac. He could not see any other provision in place of Him for why He prayed the way that He did for that cup to pass. He learned the cost of that obedience to the cross as scripture says, but you are applying obedience towards everything Jesus has done when He was happily doing it where there was no cost to that obedience.
Water didnt open all of Gods heaven to him, Gods SPirit opened all of His heaven to him.
I'd never said water did that, but you seem to be ignoring what the Father said from Heaven for why the Spirit was manifested as alighting on Him rather than going into Him. You can't say He was born again of the Spirit for they saw this occurred. And it cannot be the same anointing we had received at our salvation at the calling of the gospel because the Father did not speak from Heaven at your anointing nor mine and the testimony from Heaven was not done after Him hearing the gospel by believing in Himself. So you are misapplying Matthew 3:16. sir.
Matt 3:16 says God came to Jesus by His SPirit and opened all of His heaven to that man. If that is a difficuilty for you to understand them perhaps it isn I who who nees the reprove?
Because the event of Matthew 3:16 was not Jesus being born again by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ as we were. Matthew 3:15-17 is the fulfillment of the prophesy in Isaiah 48:16-17 of the Lord God & His Spirit sending God the Redeemer.
I had youth in my class at the age of 12 who could teach the law as well as any seasoned preacher and better than most. That is nothing sensational only dedication to learn the laws of the temples. Anyone can learn the laws of the temples even Satan who knows them well,
I doubt very much that youth was saying that he must go about doing His Father's business, heal, cast out devils, calm the winds and the sea, etc.

You need to stop rationalizing scripture in according to your belief in denying His deity, sir.
But if you will read on, the very ones Jesus taught at a young age until he was about 30, are th every ones who had him crucified for blaspheme did they not?
And if you noted why He was crucified... for blasphemy in declaring that He is God at the right hand of God the Father..... did He lie or was He crucified for something else?
You tell me what happened that this 12 year old who was revered for his knowledge of the law by these suddenly became a blasphemer, wine bibber, glutton, worthy of exaction?
So you noted why He was crucified and yet somehow, you continue to fail that He said He is God?
You are not thinking this thing through in reality.
Seems like you are denying the reality for why He was crucified.
He did, you are only trying to correct his teachings to think in your terms instead of His.
He did not bother to correct their thinking after what He had said for why He was crucified, only because He said they said the truth about Him being the Christ, the Son of the living God as in asking Him if He was God.
Thomas didnt call him God, when jesus said to him Spirit doesnt have flesh and bone as you see me then Thomas said my Lord and my God. He was not referring to Jesus but the same God who is SPirit and not flesh and bone. Seems your god is flesh and bone. Even Thomas learned this difference, So did Adam see Gen 3:22, so did Abraham, so did Moses, so did Jesus in Matt 3;l16, so did 120.
That is you misapplying His words to the Samaritan woman at the well about how God is a Spirit. Did you forget that we were made after "our image" and after "our likeness"? Are we invisible? Are we spirits? No. And Jesus was seen before His incarnation as He had ate and drank with Abraham in Genesis 18th chapter.
SO have I he is SPirit.
The Father has a body too which you fail to regard in Genesis 1:26.
he was as you looking for a man as a god.
We were created after His mage which is not as an invisible spirit after all. Do not confuse omnipresence with spirit.

Matthew 21:1And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples, 2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them. 4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, 5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

This same King & Lord God as prophesied as coming from above towards the end of the great tribulation that is yet coming...

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

is it not the Lord God that is speaking? Yet the One speaking is the One the Jews had pierced.
If your confidence was in him you would be like him.
I don't see you doing any miracles. So my confidence is in Him as God to help me walk in fellowship with the Father & the Son since the whole point of the ministry is to reconcile us back into a right relationship with God since we shall be living with Him forever in our soon perfect state in Heaven to never be separate from Him ever again.
I ran the race, it is finished just as Jesus said it is.
Paul has written that he was not perfect yet nor have obtained that perfection and he still has a race to be run by faith in Jesus Christ to help him lay aside every weight & sin daily. So once again, you have not applied His words rightly. Jesus finished the requirement of the law on the cross so that by believing in Him apart from the law, we are justified by God thru faith in Jesus Christ Whom is God.
Noting more he can do or say. All IO can do now is apply in myself from the Father that what Jesus came to lead me to. And that doesnt seem to be good enough for you.
More like missing the mark. Your hope is on yourself to do it, but my hope is on Christ to do this which is to His glory, not ours nor yours.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Is Jesus really your savior who leads you to the Father who does the saving for Him to be in you and He in you as one -- or is your religious beliefs made substitute that you would dictate to Him your salvation which doesnt allow you to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect as jesus was perfect in Him?
Your theology does not align with Paul's testimonies nor Jesus's own words when they oppose how you are applying His words to mean.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Since He prayed that the Father's will be done and not His own, He was not considering disobedience at all in that prayer. Think of it like Abraham & Isaac where an offering was provided to spare the life of Isaac. He could not see any other provision in place of Him for why He prayed the way that He did for that cup to pass. He learned the cost of that obedience to the cross as scripture says, but you are applying obedience towards everything Jesus has done when He was happily doing it where there was no cost to that obedience.
Think of it as God thinks of it ... WHo do you think it was Jesus prayed to?
I'd never said water did that, but you seem to be ignoring what the Father said from Heaven for why the Spirit was manifested as alighting on Him rather than going into Him. You can't say He was born again of the Spirit for they saw this occurred. And it cannot be the same anointing we had received at our salvation at the calling of the gospel because the Father did not speak from Heaven at your anointing nor mine and the testimony from Heaven was not done after Him hearing the gospel by believing in Himself. So you are misapplying Matthew 3:16. sir.
Miss applying 3:16? Tell me if God didnt come to Jesus and opened all of His heaven to that man then who did? You?
Because the event of Matthew 3:16 was not Jesus being born again by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ as we were. Matthew 3:15-17 is the fulfillment of the prophesy in Isaiah 48:16-17 of the Lord God & His Spirit sending God the Redeemer.
I see so you do not believe that God came to Jesus by His SPirit and opened all of His heaven to him? Not many do from lack in the same in themselves from God.
I doubt very much that youth was saying that he must go about doing His Father's business, heal, cast out devils, calm the winds and the sea, etc.
Yes you doubt is your downfall.
You need to stop rationalizing scripture in according to your belief in denying His deity, sir.
Stop rationalizing scripture? I do not have a belief of scripture -- I live it as I am supposed to. it would do you well to do the same. In that the realization of God manifest in you will you will live it as well as Jesus did,
And if you noted why He was crucified... for blasphemy in declaring that He is God at the right hand of God the Father..... did He lie or was He crucified for something else?
Same reason you accuse him of blaspheme when he was clear to be like him in the Father. He was falsely accuse of being God just as you falsely accuse him of. We all are at the right hand of God who is like Him as we are supposed to be. We are His right hand.

And no he didnt lie at all, he was clear that God sent him to show you the way to the Father and be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect and walk as He walks in His same light, holy, pure, and without sin. You just do not follow Jesus to Him is all, falsely accuse him of someting that he wasnt. He was clear he couldn't do anything at all washout the Father who sent him. Again you just do not believe Jesus is all.
So you noted why He was crucified and yet somehow, you continue to fail that He said He is God?
Yes he was crucified by those of the law, those who sit in a pew following the laws of/
Seems like you are denying the reality for why He was crucified.
Oh no' to deny him is to be like some religious organization who dictate to him what he should be for them,
He did not bother to correct their thinking after what He had said for why He was crucified, only because He said they said the truth about Him being the Christ, the Son of the living God as in asking Him if He was God.
Only GFoid can correct your thinkin just as He corrected it in Jesus in Matt 3;16, Abraham, Moses, 120. Yoiu just deny Him to let Him correct your thinking to think as He does is all.
That is you misapplying His words to the Samaritan woman at the well about how God is a Spirit. Did you forget that we were made after "our image" and after "our likeness"? Are we invisible? Are we spirits? No. And Jesus was seen before His incarnation as He had ate and drank with Abraham in Genesis 18th chapter.
Absolutely we who are born of God are spirit, God is a SPirit and I must worship Him in Spirit. You seem to not be able to distinguish flesh from Spirit? Even Adam came to this realization to distinguish between the two. gen 3:22.
The Father has a body too which you fail to regard in Genesis 1:26.
Yes He does have a body, I am His body, I am His temple, so are all who He is manifest in by His SPirit. We have His same mind.
We were created after His mage which is not as an invisible spirit after all. Do not confuse omnipresence with spirit
No you have created you god in you image. The one who came to Jesus, Adam, Abraham, Moses Jesus 120 is invisible because we became like the one that you cannot see with with your physical eyes but is within us. You cant relate to Him who was in all of these is all.
Matthew 21:1And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples, 2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them. 4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, 5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
And all who has received form God it is fulfilled. His promise is He will come to you and sup with you and be in you. But because that isnt possible for you as you say and not possible for God to come to you as He did in all of these you read of.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
.
Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

This same King & Lord God as prophesied as coming from above towards the end of the great tribulation that is yet coming...

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

is it not the Lord God that is speaking? Yet the One speaking is the One the Jews had pierced.
The Jews spoke of the blaspheme of Jesus. Jesus didnt come for a long time after Zechariah -- BNut back then as with Jesus, even the ass was able to recognize the Lord and warned the man when the man was not able. Numbers 22:28. Just as Jesus warned them in his day. And today!
Numbers 22;l28
I don't see you doing any miracles.
Nor do I you. But I have seen !!!
So my confidence is in Him as God to help me walk in fellowship with the Father & the Son since the whole point of the ministry is to reconcile us back into a right relationship with God since we shall be living with Him forever in our soon perfect state in Heaven to never be separate from Him ever again.
If your confidence was in him the same signs would follow you. They dont do they?
Paul has written that he was not perfect yet nor have obtained that perfection and he still has a race to be run by faith in Jesus Christ to help him lay aside every weight & sin daily. So once again, you have not applied His words rightly. Jesus finished the requirement of the law on the cross so that by believing in Him apart from the law, we are justified by God thru faith in Jesus Christ Whom is God.
Yes at least Paul was honest enough to admit that he wasn't perfect as Jesus commands of us to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect and was a sinner instead of being of Christ who is perfect and whiteout sin.

And it isnt a matter of believing in him it is a matter of God manifest in you as He was manifest in Jesus to be identified with Him which is not a belief at all but the reality of God in you as He was in Christ Jesus. On can believe anything about a god but it is another matter for Him to be manifest in you.
More like missing the mark. Your hope is on yourself to do it, but my hope is on Christ to do this which is to His glory, not ours nor yours.
Missing the mark is to not have from the Father that what Jesus had from Him.
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Yes -- the one God sent to show you the way, the truth and the life to live and no one comes to the Father but his way no matter what you think of it. He is the way of the Father.
Your theology does not align with Paul's testimonies nor Jesus's own words when they oppose how you are applying His words to mean.
I totally agree, Paul had his own theology, Jesus had his own and I follow Jesus instead of Paul. If Paul is your way then so be it, but Jesus is my way, my truth, and my life to live it as he demands of me, righteous, holy,. pure, and without sin. Paul teaches you to be a sinner instead of righteousness that Jesus taught. tp be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. In that perfection there cannot be sin at all. Paul leads more to sin than Jesus ever did to be without sin. and perfect in the Father. I would guess by what you say that you are a sinner instead of the perfections the Father puts in man to be without sin?
 

Hark

Well-known member
.I totally agree, Paul had his own theology, Jesus had his own and I follow Jesus instead of Paul.
I'd say you are following your own thus you are not following Jesus, let alone Paul's words on how to follow Jesus, because Paul is following Him by faith as His Good Shepherd and Friend by trusting Him to help him to follow Him and be His friend.

What are you looking to Jesus Christ for? What is your hope in Him for? If you are not looking to Jesus Christ for anything, then where is your hope that is different from all the other religions in the world? If in yourself, then there really isn't any difference between the religions in the world and you will have insecurity when sin has domination in your life... that the only way you can say you squared things away to the standard of Jesus is to overlook your shortcomings and your sins because you are unable to subdued those things unto yourself when only Christ Jesus can.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
I'd say you are following your own thus you are not following Jesus, let alone Paul's words on how to follow Jesus, because Paul is following Him by faith as His Good Shepherd and Friend by trusting Him to help him to follow Him and be His friend.
It is better for me to follow Jesus and receive from God myself than to follow second hand information. Jesus said that in that day ye shall ask me nothing but go to the Father for myself and He will give it me. I did and He did.

What has Paul taken into consideration that God Himself is unable consider for me? He in me and I in Him are one. Paul is not in me, Jesus is not in me, Christ is in me, Gods anointed by His SPirit just as Jesus was anointed of God by His Spirit.

You can follow Paul as a sinner if you prefer, but Jesus is the better way for me in righteousness.
What are you looking to Jesus Christ for?
To be as he was in the Father. How about you, what are you looking to Jesus Christ for?
What is your hope in Him for?
Hope was to walk as he walks in His same light, realty of the Christ manifest in me to be anointed of God is I do. The very purpose God sent Jesus to show me the way to Him.
If you are not looking to Jesus Christ for anything, then where is your hope that is different from all the other religions in the world?
Religious minds come to me with the demand that I believe as they do as in I must do this and do that in order to believe as they do.

The Spiritual minded come to me with the demand that my life is squared with the standards of Jesus to walk as he walks in it..

How about you what are you looking for Jesus for?
If in yourself, then there really isn't any difference between the religions in the world and you will have insecurity when sin has domination in your life... that the only way you can say you squared things away to the standard of Jesus is to overlook your shortcomings and your sins because you are unable to subdued those things unto yourself when only Christ Jesus can.
But we who are of Christ, born of God, anointed of God, as Jesus was it is impossible to be in sin. 1 John 3:9.

My shortcomings? Are you referring to the same mind I have in me Jesus had in him? And in those who saw Jesus shortcomings and had him crucified for blaspheme?

SO to you to have what Jesus had in the Father is a shortcoming? Perhaps you can tell God why His hand is so short that He is unable to convey His will for you to walk as He walks in His same light?
 

Hark

Well-known member
Unproven hypothesis; "Because Jesus is casting out saved believer and even denying professing believers of ever knowing them, one can lose salvation so that means OSAS is not true.

God is judging His House first per 1 Peter 4:17-19 at the pre great tribulation rapture event in that day as addressed in verse 13 as described in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17. Though those left behind will be killed per verses 16-17, but their spirits are still saved per verse 15. This is how He is faithful in 1 Peter 4:19 in keeping the souls of His saints that will suffer the fiery calamity on the 3rd of the earth per Revelation 8:7 & the coming great tribulation as a result.

Think of that judgment as disqualified and thus excommunicated from the Marriage Supper in Heaven. When you consider what the church excommunicating an unrepentant believer in what it was meant to achieve...

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Then you can see what happens to those saints & former believers left behind when Satan wages war on the saints to kill them.

With that in mind, one may see why the rules for fellowship will be the same for attendance in Heaven at the Marriage Supper table.

1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

So just because someone is denied attendance, it just mean they were not ready as found abiding in Him to attend as any iniquity on that foundation is a work that denies Him. One does not need to verbally deny Him because a saved believer can deny Him by heresy.

And when it comes to failing to forgive your brother and having malice in your heart, then that is another reason why one can be denied attendance. These are issues that we need Jesus Christ's help in for getting us ready as found abiding in Him to go. So pray today.
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
You IGNORE all the passages which teach eternal security (eg. John 6:44, John 10:28-29, etc.), you provide NO passages denying eternal security, only cite one verse which you think is "awfully peculiar language" in your PERSONAL OPINION.

2 Tim. 4:7 doesn't say that he "had to" keep the faith, or that he "had to" fight the good fight.
Only that he did.
And the reason he did was because he had eternal security.

Just admit it... The reason you reject eternal security is not because it's not Biblical, it's simply because you don't WANT to accept it.

And that's not a sufficient reason for us to "rethink our position".
We will continue to believe the Bible.
Noni don't, in fact the opposite is true. You need reconcile the incongruence not me.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Noni don't, in fact the opposite is true. You need reconcile the incongruence not me.
Unproven hypothesis; "Because Jesus is casting out saved believer and even denying professing believers of ever knowing them, one can lose salvation so that means OSAS is not true.

God is judging His House first per 1 Peter 4:17-19 at the pre great tribulation rapture event in that day as addressed in verse 13 as described in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17. Though those left behind will be killed per verses 16-17, but their spirits are still saved per verse 15. This is how He is faithful in 1 Peter 4:19 in keeping the souls of His saints that will suffer the fiery calamity on the 3rd of the earth per Revelation 8:7 & the coming great tribulation as a result.

Think of that judgment as disqualified and thus excommunicated from the Marriage Supper in Heaven. When you consider what the church excommunicating an unrepentant believer in what it was meant to achieve...

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Then you can see what happens to those saints & former believers left behind when Satan wages war on the saints to kill them.

With that in mind, one may see why the rules for fellowship will be the same for attendance in Heaven at the Marriage Supper table.

1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

So just because someone is denied attendance, it just mean they were not ready as found abiding in Him to attend as any iniquity on that foundation is a work that denies Him. One does not need to verbally deny Him because a saved believer can deny Him by heresy.

And when it comes to failing to forgive your brother and having malice in your heart, then that is another reason why one can be denied attendance. These are issues that we need Jesus Christ's help in for getting us ready as found abiding in Him to go. So pray today.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Noni don't, in fact the opposite is true. You need reconcile the incongruence not me.

You haven't demonstrated any "incongruence" for me to address.
All you said was you didn't like how Paul worded something.
And your opinion is not my problem.

But eternal security is NOT "made up".
It is Biblical, and you simply ignore all the passages which teach it.
And that too falls under the category of "not my problem".
 

Yakuda

Well-known member
Unproven hypothesis; "Because Jesus is casting out saved believer and even denying professing believers of ever knowing them, one can lose salvation so that means OSAS is not true.

God is judging His House first per 1 Peter 4:17-19 at the pre great tribulation rapture event in that day as addressed in verse 13 as described in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17. Though those left behind will be killed per verses 16-17, but their spirits are still saved per verse 15. This is how He is faithful in 1 Peter 4:19 in keeping the souls of His saints that will suffer the fiery calamity on the 3rd of the earth per Revelation 8:7 & the coming great tribulation as a result.

Think of that judgment as disqualified and thus excommunicated from the Marriage Supper in Heaven. When you consider what the church excommunicating an unrepentant believer in what it was meant to achieve...

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Then you can see what happens to those saints & former believers left behind when Satan wages war on the saints to kill them.

With that in mind, one may see why the rules for fellowship will be the same for attendance in Heaven at the Marriage Supper table.

1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

So just because someone is denied attendance, it just mean they were not ready as found abiding in Him to attend as any iniquity on that foundation is a work that denies Him. One does not need to verbally deny Him because a saved believer can deny Him by heresy.

And when it comes to failing to forgive your brother and having malice in your heart, then that is another reason why one can be denied attendance. These are issues that we need Jesus Christ's help in for getting us ready as found abiding in Him to go. So pray today.
Paul doesNT speak like a believer of OSAS that's your problem to solve not mine.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Paul doesNT speak like a believer of OSAS that's your problem to solve not mine.
That is your oversight, brother. Paul never called a brother that was living in sin as not a brother. Does he say preach the gospel t those professing believers living in sin because they ae not really brothers or not really saved? No. Paul says to correct or rebuke them by the scripture to lead them to repentance. If they do not repent, then excommunicate them. leaving in His hands to finish the work He has started in them, even when left behind.

Paul does not shy away that saved believers can go astray and yet he does not shy away from acknowledging the truth that Jesus still abides in former believer even.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

So Paul believes in OSAS but what he is warning believers about as Jesus is.. is to be found abiding in Him and His words by looking to Jesus to help you lay aside every weight & sin daily before the Bridegroom comes for that is how one is qualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Unproven hypothesis; "Because Jesus is casting out saved believer and even denying professing believers of ever knowing them, one can lose salvation so that means OSAS is not true.

God is judging His House first per 1 Peter 4:17-19 at the pre great tribulation rapture event in that day as addressed in verse 13 as described in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17. Though those left behind will be killed per verses 16-17, but their spirits are still saved per verse 15. This is how He is faithful in 1 Peter 4:19 in keeping the souls of His saints that will suffer the fiery calamity on the 3rd of the earth per Revelation 8:7 & the coming great tribulation as a result.

Think of that judgment as disqualified and thus excommunicated from the Marriage Supper in Heaven. When you consider what the church excommunicating an unrepentant believer in what it was meant to achieve...

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Then you can see what happens to those saints & former believers left behind when Satan wages war on the saints to kill them.

With that in mind, one may see why the rules for fellowship will be the same for attendance in Heaven at the Marriage Supper table.

1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

So just because someone is denied attendance, it just mean they were not ready as found abiding in Him to attend as any iniquity on that foundation is a work that denies Him. One does not need to verbally deny Him because a saved believer can deny Him by heresy.

And when it comes to failing to forgive your brother and having malice in your heart, then that is another reason why one can be denied attendance. These are issues that we need Jesus Christ's help in for getting us ready as found abiding in Him to go. So pray today.
It is better for me to follow the way of Jesus than the ways of Paul or any other man. Jesus trusted no man nor do I, the Father who is God is sufficient to communicate His will for me. He was sufficient to provide to Jesus His will as well.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Once save always saved doesn't exist. Its made up.
Nice non rebuttal of the other posters post.

Let me ask you. In what type of soil was the word sown into in your life?
Thorny?
Rocky and hard?
Good Soil?

Don't know? Not sure? None of the above? To be determined?

What sets the People represented by the good soil apart from the others?
 
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