Why Satan… Tomorrow?

Synergy

Well-known member
That’s no different than me saying of your view…

Kind of strange that God allows every sin and when men go ahead and commit these sins God allowed, He gets really upset, sometimes furious, that they actually went right ahead and did exactly what He allowed them to do.

But that's the wild insanity of your view.

Here we have a choice and it's our responsibility if we chose wrong. In Calvinism, we have NO choice and we're whipped if we do as he predestined. That's ludicrous.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Here we have a choice and it's our responsibility if we chose wrong. In Calvinism, we have NO choice and we're whipped if we do as he predestined. That's ludicrous.
Completely

God the Father plans and determines sin then sends God the son to die so he can rescue from death those who did what the Father determined for them to do
 

Sketo

Well-known member
God determined that:

“by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners...” (Rom 5:19)

AND:

“for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” (Act 4:27-28)


 

Manfred

Well-known member
When I choose to do what God predestined me to do?
When you choose to act in the flesh.
You seem to think God cannot stop you from doing what you choose to do.
He stopped Pharaoh.
So whatever you perceive God cannot do, would just be wrong.
He allows what He predestined?
Of course He does.
You think He would disallow what He predestined.

You should try and stick with the attributes of God instead of your illogical conclusions that are obviously confusing you.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Actually according to Calvinism Pharoah was doing what God determined him to do
Where did I claim otherwise?
This is not a Calvinist claim, this is a Biblical claim, and the fact that you HATE it shows the utter disdain you have for the word of God.

If you want to argue the point, show how God did NOT determine what Pharaoh did, and that He did not say He did it in order that His Name may be proclaimed through all the earth.
Put your money where your mouth is for once.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Where did I claim otherwise?
This is not a Calvinist claim, this is a Biblical claim, and the fact that you HATE it shows the utter disdain you have for the word of God.

If you want to argue the point, show how God did NOT determine what Pharaoh did, and that He did not say He did it in order that His Name may be proclaimed through all the earth.
Put your money where your mouth is for once.

No that is a Calvinist claim

Pharaoh was the man that he was because God determined him to be that way from birth according to what Calvinism teaches

The bible does not teach that

The onus is on you to establish where the bible teaches that Pharaoh was determined that way from birth
 

Manfred

Well-known member
No that is a Calvinist claim

Pharaoh was the man that he was because God determined him to be that way from birth according to what Calvinism teaches

The bible does not teach that

The onus is on you to establish where the bible teaches that Pharaoh was determined that way from birth
Are you serious?

Common sense has left the building it seems.
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—

God has a purpose in election, and it has nothing to do based on the works of man.

The onus is on you to prove that God did not have a purpose in His election of Pharaoh as a vessel of destruction before he was even born.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Are you serious?

Common sense has left the building it seems.
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—

God has a purpose in election, and it has nothing to do based on the works of man.

The onus is on you to prove that God did not have a purpose in His election of Pharaoh as a vessel of destruction before he was even born.
Duh that is talking about the election of a people to service

Jacob's people Israel rather than Esau's people Edom

and it says nothing at all that God determined the character of each before they were born

and does not even mention Pharaoh in the verses you include
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Actually according to Calvinism Pharoah was doing what God determined him to do

You hate Scripture, don't you?

Ex. 9:12 But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

Ex. 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go.

Ex. 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let them go.

Ex. 11:10 Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh, and the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go out of his land.

Ex. 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued the people of Israel while the people of Israel were going out defiantly.

Rom. 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
You hate Scripture, don't you?

Ex. 9:12 But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

Ex. 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go.

Ex. 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let them go.

Ex. 11:10 Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh, and the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go out of his land.

Ex. 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued the people of Israel while the people of Israel were going out defiantly.

Rom. 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

You missed a couple of pertinent verses there.

Why would it be necessary for God to harden Pharaoh's heart?
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
You missed a couple of pertinent verses there.

Why would it be necessary for God to harden Pharaoh's heart?

The story starts with the Jew's being more numerious then the Egyptian in their own country ....

Yet still slaves.

So ..... good question.
 

fltom

Well-known member
You hate Scripture, don't you?

Ex. 9:12 But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

Ex. 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go.

Ex. 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let them go.

Ex. 11:10 Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh, and the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go out of his land.

Ex. 14:8 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued the people of Israel while the people of Israel were going out defiantly.

Rom. 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
Where does that state God made Pharaoh the man that he is from birth

You seem to have left off a few details

and skipped to the end
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Where does that state God made Pharaoh the man that he is from birth

You seem to have left off a few details

and skipped to the end

See?
You NEVER read anything I post, but simply ignore it.

Once AGAIN:

Rom. 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
 
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