Why the Calvinist understanding of 1Cor 2:14 makes no sense

TomFL

Well-known member
Calvinists insist that 1Cor2:14 teaches man cannot understand the gospel

I believe that is an error for the following reasons



1) The power of God’s word the gospel

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

1 Peter 1:21–25 (KJV 1900)

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Man is regenerated through faith in the Gospel

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 1:16 (KJV 1900)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV 1900)

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



2) The bible reveals man’s problem is not that he does not understand the gospel but that he refuses to believe

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (KJV 1900)

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Romans 11:19–23 (KJV 1900)

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900)

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3) Warnings about hardening your heart make no sense if the gospel cannot be understood

Hebrews 3:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,



Hebrews 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.



Hebrews 4:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.



4) If man cannot understand the gospel why would God blind men so they could not believe

John 12:40 (KJV 1900)

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Or speaks to men in parables so they would not understand

Mark 4:11–12 (KJV 1900)

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Why would the devil blind anyone

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Calvinists insist that 1Cor2:14 teaches man cannot understand the gospel

I believe that is an error for the following reasons



1) The power of God’s word the gospel

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

1 Peter 1:21–25 (KJV 1900)

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Man is regenerated through faith in the Gospel

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 1:16 (KJV 1900)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV 1900)

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



2) The bible reveals man’s problem is not that he does not understand the gospel but that he refuses to believe

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (KJV 1900)

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Romans 11:19–23 (KJV 1900)

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900)

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3) Warnings about hardening your heart make no sense if the gospel cannot be understood

Hebrews 3:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,



Hebrews 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.



Hebrews 4:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.



4) If man cannot understand the gospel why would God blind men so they could not believe

John 12:40 (KJV 1900)

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Or speaks to men in parables so they would not understand

Mark 4:11–12 (KJV 1900)

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Why would the devil blind anyone

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
You dealt with every verse but 1 Corinthians 2:14. A nasty habit of yours. So what does it mean??
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You dealt with every verse but 1 Corinthians 2:14. A nasty habit of yours. So what does it mean??
Sorry already dealt with that previously

Your problem is you comment without having read all that went before

so you comment erroneously

Other than that you addressed none of the arguments presented
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry already dealt with that previously

Your problem is you comment without having read all that went before

so you comment erroneously

Other than that you addressed none of the arguments presented
You did a poor job on your comments about 1 Cor 2 14. It's plain in stating the natural man inability spiritually to receive know understand the things of God. That is the Gospel, the whole context indicates that.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You did a poor job on your comments about 1 Cor 2 14. It's plain in stating the natural man inability spiritually to receive know understand the things of God. That is the Gospel, the whole context indicates that.
Sorry but you addressed none of the evidence and you do not prove man is unable to understand the gospel

something that is actually contrary to the text

;
1 Cor. 1:19–30 —NKJV
“For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
¶ Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,
but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
¶ For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
that no flesh should glory in His presence.
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—”

Those wise in human wisdom reject the cross but those not so wise in human wisdom believed

Your criticism totally misses the mark

as your failure to address the arguments would lead one to believe
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry but you addressed none of the evidence and you do not prove man is unable to understand the gospel

something that is actually contrary to the text

;
1 Cor. 1:19–30 —NKJV
“For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
¶ Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,
but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
¶ For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
that no flesh should glory in His presence.
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—”

Those wise in human wisdom reject the cross but those not so wise in human wisdom believed

Your criticism totally misses the mark

as your failure to address the arguments would lead one to believe
You have not given any evidence. You rattled off a bunch of scripture which you apparently don't understand like you normally do.
 

civic

Well-known member
Is the bible a spiritual book ?
Is God spiritual ?
Is the gospel spiritual ?
Is man born with spiritual understanding ?

What is spiritual ?

Paul tells us below the spirit of the world which is the opposite form the spirit of God with 2 opposite results with understanding the things from God which are spiritual. We do not need any other passages to understand the meaning as the context reveals its meaning.

A text without the context is a pretext for a prooftext.

1 Cor 2:12,14
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

hope this helps !!!
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
You have not given any evidence. You rattled off a bunch of scripture which you apparently don't understand like you normally do.
Total hogwash

Calvinists insist that 1Cor2:14 teaches man cannot understand the gospel

I believe that is an error for the following reasons



1) The power of God’s word the gospel

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

1 Peter 1:21–25 (KJV 1900)

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Man is regenerated through faith in the Gospel

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 1:16 (KJV 1900)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV 1900)

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



2) The bible reveals man’s problem is not that he does not understand the gospel but that he refuses to believe

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (KJV 1900)

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Romans 11:19–23 (KJV 1900)

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900)

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3) Warnings about hardening your heart make no sense if the gospel cannot be understood

Hebrews 3:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,



Hebrews 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.



Hebrews 4:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.



4) If man cannot understand the gospel why would God blind men so they could not believe

John 12:40 (KJV 1900)

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Or speaks to men in parables so they would not understand

Mark 4:11–12 (KJV 1900)

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Why would the devil blind anyone

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

You offer only denial
Is the bible a spiritual book ?
Is God spiritual ?
Is the gospel spiritual ?
Is man born with spiritual understanding ?

What is spiritual ?
My friend

Your conclusion is contrary to what we see in the first chapter

The wise are rejecting the cross as foolishness the simple however are not

1 Cor. 1:18–26 —KJV
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:”


not to mention the many passages cited showing the gospel can be understood

oh and here is another

1 Cor. 15:1–2 —KJV
Ҧ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.”

Now of course the Calvinist will claim if they believed in vain they were never regenerated

yet it is stated they believed

BTW the things of the spirit in context

1 Cor. 2:12 —KJV
“Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.”

Nothing is stated about being unable to understand the gospel and a lot of scripture must be contradicted to come to that conclusions
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Yes as scripture shows believing is necessary to being regenerated and becoming a new man
If his Old Man could Understand to the point of Repentance, then why did Paul say 'I do the bad I don't want to do, and I don't do the good I want to do; who will deliver me from this body of death?!'...

Could his Old Man deliver him from his body of death?
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
Then why did Paul say 'I do the bad I don't want to do, and I don't do the good I want to do; who will deliver me from this body of death?!'; if his Old Man could understand to the point of being able to Repent?

Could his Old Man deliver him from his body of death?
That concerns what one does not what one can believe

Because one cannot fulfill the law is no proof that one cannot confess that or respond to God's offer of a remedy
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
That concerns what one does not what one can believe

Because one cannot fulfill the law is no proof that one cannot confess that or respond to God's offer of a remedy
It's about lunchtime! I would disagree and say Paul is not speaking about not being able to keep the Law, but instead is talking about not being able to stop Sinning. Thus his Old Man doesn't understand to the point it would Repent and believe; that's even worse than the demons...
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Total hogwash

Calvinists insist that 1Cor2:14 teaches man cannot understand the gospel

I believe that is an error for the following reasons



1) The power of God’s word the gospel

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood

1 Peter 1:21–25 (KJV 1900)

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Man is regenerated through faith in the Gospel

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Self explanitory

Romans 1:16 (KJV 1900)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV 1900)

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



2) The bible reveals man’s problem is not that he does not understand the gospel but that he refuses to believe

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (KJV 1900)

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Romans 11:19–23 (KJV 1900)

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900)

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3) Warnings about hardening your heart make no sense if the gospel cannot be understood

Hebrews 3:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,



Hebrews 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.



Hebrews 4:7 (KJV 1900)

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.



4) If man cannot understand the gospel why would God blind men so they could not believe

John 12:40 (KJV 1900)

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Or speaks to men in parables so they would not understand

Mark 4:11–12 (KJV 1900)

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Why would the devil blind anyone

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

You offer only denial

My friend

Your conclusion is contrary to what we see in the first chapter

The wise are rejecting the cross as foolishness the simple however are not

1 Cor. 1:18–26 —KJV
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:”


not to mention the many passages cited showing the gospel can be understood

oh and here is another

1 Cor. 15:1–2 —KJV
Ҧ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.”

Now of course the Calvinist will claim if they believed in vain they were never regenerated

yet it is stated they believed

BTW the things of the spirit in context

1 Cor. 2:12 —KJV
“Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.”

Nothing is stated about being unable to understand the gospel and a lot of scripture must be contradicted to come to that conclusions
Nothing changes The natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Complete straw man op along with a huge category error.

The issue at stake in 1 Corinthians 2:14 (which was never addressed in the op) concerns "the things of the Spirit" (I mean it's right there in the text) stating that these things 1) Aren't accepted by the natural man; 2) Are considered foolish by the natural man; 3) Not understood by the natural man.

What the verse is saying succinctly is a man in his natural state is unable to accept, see the vast wisdom of, nor understand the things the Spirit reveals. This means the man must be born from above to "see" these things. Once the man becomes born from above/regenerated he will then accept these things, cherish their wisdom and understand them showing evidence of rebirth. Note John 3:1-15 on this as well.

Now to Tom's arguments: Nowhere in the text does it say they can't comprehend biblical sentences or understand the words of the gospel. Our friend is making an elementary mistake here, he is not grasping nor is he showing he comprehends this text's meaning nor the position of the Reformed on the passage.

Furthermore, @TomFL is merely posting verses and pitting them against 1 Corinthians 2:14 as if he is saying "This verse clearly says a natural man cannot understand these things, but I'm going to prove this wrong with some other verses!" That is exactly, consciously or not, what the OP has done.

The entire thing reminds me of this:

 

TomFL

Well-known member
Complete straw man op along with a huge category error.

The issue at stake in 1 Corinthians 2:14 (which was never addressed in the op) concerns "the things of the Spirit" (I mean it's right there in the text) stating that these things 1) Aren't accepted by the natural man; 2) Are considered foolish by the natural man; 3) Not understood by the natural man.

What the verse is saying succinctly is a man in his natural state is unable to accept, see the vast wisdom of, nor understand the things the Spirit reveals. This means the man must be born from above to "see" these things. Once the man becomes born from above/regenerated he will then accept these things, cherish their wisdom and understand them showing evidence of rebirth. Note John 3:1-15 on this as well.

Now to Tom's arguments: Nowhere in the text does it say they can't comprehend biblical sentences or understand the words of the gospel. Our friend is making an elementary mistake here, he is not grasping nor is he showing he comprehends this text's meaning nor the position of the Reformed on the passage.

Furthermore, @TomFL is merely posting verses and pitting them against 1 Corinthians 2:14 as if he is saying "This verse clearly says a natural man cannot understand these things, but I'm going to prove this wrong with some other verses!" That is exactly, consciously or not, what the OP has done.

The entire thing reminds me of this:

Your first problem

Is assuming the things of the spirit is refering to the gospel

In context it refers to wisdom that comes from God.

He cannot obtain it through the spirit but he can understand apostle or a prophet who conveys the nessage to him.

Many verses were produced showing the gospel is understandable

Neither you or anyone else has addressed them

Further in the previous chapter we see that while the wise thought the cross foolishness the simple were accepting it and the foolishmess of preaching was the method God used to save those that believe. Obviously the simple, or lowly understood it

Further in the second chapter we read the Corinthians themselves were not spiritual yet they understood the gospel

So neither the immediate context or the remove supports your understanding

and you simply cannot use one verse to contradict a whole slew of verses some of which even appear in the same context

BTW you appear to not know what a strawman is

I have not presented an argument as though it was from you and knocked it down

Instead I presented my own argument

Also BTW it was discussed previously what the things of the spirit refer to
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
pot

The issue at stake in 1 Corinthians 2:14 (which was never addressed in the op) concerns "the things of the Spirit" (I mean it's right there in the text) stating that these things 1) Aren't accepted by the natural man; 2) Are considered foolish by the natural man; 3) Not understood by the natural man.

What the verse is saying succinctly is a man in his natural state is unable to accept, see the vast wisdom of, nor understand the things the Spirit reveals. This means the man must be born from above to "see" these things. Once the man becomes born from above/regenerated he will then accept these things, cherish their wisdom and understand them showing evidence of rebirth. Note John 3:1-15 on this as well.

Exactly, which includes the Gospel. And Jesus says the same thing in Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. The word see horaó

to see, perceive, attend to
Usage: I see, look upon, experience, perceive, discern, beware.

In its arosit form eidon it means:

to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive

Now if anyone isnt born again, they are natural and cant understand the things of God !
 
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