Why the Calvinist understanding of 1Cor 2:14 makes no sense

TomFL

Well-known member
Your point?
It should have been obvious revealed truth can be understood

Eph. 3:1–10 —KJV
Ҧ For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
It should have been obvious revealed truth can be understood

Eph. 3:1–10 —KJV
Ҧ For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,”
Paul was writing to regenerate men and women in Eph 3
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Paul was writing to regenerate men and women in Eph 3
Read the context

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,”

don't just repeat your errors
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Read the context

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,”

don't just repeat your errors
I have probably read the context more times than you. Paul is writing to the regenerate. These things are made known to the saints Col 1 25-26

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I have probably read the context more times than you. Paul is writing to the regenerate. These things are made known to the saints Col 1 25-26

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

You left this out

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,”

The purpose of the church is bring the gospel to all men

Matt. 28:19–20 —ESV
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.””
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
I have probably read the context more times than you. Paul is writing to the regenerate. These things are made known to the saints Col 1 25-26

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Bro, he won't accept context due to the fact it destroys his theology. In other words, plainly, he will not be corrected by the word of God.
 

civic

Well-known member
Matt. 28:19–20 —ESV
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.””
Tom the above "teaching them" are the ones who are already disciples. Do you agree, if not why not ?

Thanks !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Tom the above "teaching them" are the ones who are already disciples. Do you agree, if not why not ?

Thanks !
They were to make disciples

Matt. 28:19–20 —ESV
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

How can they already be disciples before being made disciples
 

civic

Well-known member
They were to make disciples

Matt. 28:19–20 —ESV
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

How can they already be disciples before being made disciples
First they go
Second they make converts/disciples via the gospel
Third they are baptized
Fourth they are taught Jesus commands
 

TomFL

Well-known member
First they go
Second they make converts/disciples via the gospel
Third they are baptized
Fourth they are taught Jesus commands
There you go

They make disciples via the gospel

The question to be answered is Is the gospel sufficient to accomplish what is sent for

2 Tim. 3:15–16 —KJV
“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

According to scripture the answer is yes
 

civic

Well-known member
There you go

They make disciples via the gospel

The question to be answered is Is the gospel sufficient to accomplish what is sent for

2 Tim. 3:15–16 —KJV
“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

According to scripture the answer is yes
That is a side issue as I was talking about the order of first going, then preaching the gospel, then making converts/disciples, then teaching them the commands of the Lord and seeing if you were in agreement.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
That is a side issue as I was talking about the order of first going, then preaching the gospel, then making converts/disciples, then teaching them the commands of the Lord and seeing if you were in agreement.
Ok but I think we still might not agree

The means of discipleship still must be via teaching
 

civic

Well-known member
And how do you get them convert if not by the gospel
I'm not in disagreement its the gospel that is the power of God unto Salvation as per Romans 1:16 and is defined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 as the gospel Paul preached that is Salvific. Any other gospel other than this one that is preached let them be eternally condemned as per Paul in Galatians 1:6-9.

Romans 10:13-15
for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?
And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?
And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?
As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news

hope this helps !!!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You left this out

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,”

The purpose of the church is bring the gospel to all men

Matt. 28:19–20 —ESV
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.””
I rest my case
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Tom the above "teaching them" are the ones who are already disciples. Do you agree, if not why not ?

Thanks !
That proves that that the ones Jesus is talking about will be spiritually alive in order to teach them and make disciples out of them. Matt 28

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The word teach mathēteuō means as you know:

  1. o be a disciple of one
    1. to follow his precepts and instructions
  2. to make a disciple
    1. to teach, instruct

Hence this indicates they will be already quickened and wanting to be instructed spiritually. An example would be the Ethiopian eunuch, he was quickened and ready to receive instruction Acts 8 30-31

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Thats the type of persons Jesus was sending His apostles to in that commission !
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Bro, he won't accept context due to the fact it destroys his theology. In other words, plainly, he will not be corrected by the word of God.
You need to back off from that kind of talk. He has a different understanding than you have, and from his POV he could say exactly the same thing to you. That you refuse to be corrected by the Word of God.
We all understand in part.
 

civic

Well-known member
You need to back off from that kind of talk. He has a different understanding than you have, and from his POV he could say exactly the same thing to you. That you refuse to be corrected by the Word of God.
We all understand in part.
speaking of being "corrected" did you ask your pastor yesterday about the 5 points of Calvinism and how much you HATE those doctrines and oppose them every day on this forum ?

also do you know the definition of a hypocrite ?

do you know what wearing a mask means on stage ?

why do you go to a CALVINIST church and are under the teaching of a CALVINIST pastor ?

or are you lying to us and just making it all up sithproton ?

I'm not sure which would be the greater sin, a hypocrite or a liar ?

Which one do you think is worse sithproton ?

curious minds would like to know your answers to these questions and observations....................

hope this helps !!!
 
Top