It wasn't really the topic of the thread, but eh, may as well give it a shot.
A few examples:
Numbers 17:11-12:
"Then Moses said to Aaron, “Take the fire pan, and put on it fire from the altar. Add incense and take it quickly to the community and make expiation for them. For wrath has gone forth from the LORD: the plague has begun!” Aaron took it, as Moses had ordered, and ran to the midst of the congregation, where the plague had begun among the people. He put on the incense and made expiation for the people."
Hoshea 14:3-4:
"Return, O Israel, to the LORD your God, for you have fallen because of your sin. Take words with you and return to the LORD. Say to Him: “Forgive all guilt and accept what is good; instead of bulls we will pay [The offering of] our lips."
Samuel 2:12:13:
"David said to Nathan, “I stand guilty before the LORD!” And Nathan replied to David, “The LORD has remitted your sin; you shall not die."
I just want to say that I'm really glad you inquired of Christians about what they believe, and they should show love to you and not give you a hard time for it.
What we
should be doing here as Christians is interacting with you with sincere care in the hopes that the Holy Spirit would communicate new truths to you.
I respect your love and respect for the Scriptures here. I think even the OT admits it's own way of atonement is just symbolic, which is why the prophets often talked about heart sincerity over just performing rituals.
The question that would be really interesting then, would be what does an animal being killed
stand for? What does a snake on a pole
stand for? When God said to Abraham to sacrifice his son on an altar on that mountain, but Abraham said "God, himself, will provide the lamb my son," what could possibly be that lamb that God provides?
We do see intercession and repentance in the OT bringing people the effects of atonement as well as obedience to the symbolic temple imagery. However, I must insist that this imagery was meant to represent what the heart of atonement really means and where it really comes from—that something
must die for you because you did something wrong.
This is the fundamental idea we want to see being communicated here, and the source from which we would apply the atonement that comes from intercession or repentance, because no human is holy enough to be as perfect as God is or to attain through works, performance or effort to the standard of holiness God to remain pure and perfect would and should require.
15 Behold, He putteth no trust in His holy ones; yea, the heavens are not clean in His sight.
16 How much less one that is abominable and impure, man who drinketh iniquity like water! (Job 15:15-16 JPS)
4 How then can man be just with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
5 Behold, even the moon hath no brightness, and the stars are not pure in His sight;
6 How much less man, that is a worm! and the son of man, that is a maggot! (Job 25:4-6 JPS)
Now let's just say, theoretically—as a thought experiment—if we were logically to deduce what lamb God might provide or what methods or means a perfectly holy God could truly and completely forgive sins, without violating his own standard of perfection even one tiny bit... what might that look like or manifest as.
We might speculate that
God, himself, would have to do something for the man that the man cannot do for himself.
5 But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed.
6 All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath made to light on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, though he humbled himself and opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before her shearers is dumb; yea, he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away, and with his generation who did reason? for he was cut off out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due.
(Isa 53:5-8 JPS)
Who was this man?
Was he Moses?
Was Moses crushed for the iniquities of Israel, did the LORD cause the transgressions of all Israel to fall on Moses?
Was Moses oppressed and humbled and never opened his mouth?
I love Moses—and respect him as the greatest prophet of the OT—but Moses did "open his mouth" and complain sometimes, and there is no place Moses bore the true punishment all Israel deserved.
We can go through the OT and find no one who was truly "cut off from the land of the living for the transgression of God's people." Many sophisticated Jewish commentators have speculated that it might mean God's own people were punished for their sins, but the language here is very clear
that someone else is taking the punishment, not Israel.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, that he might see his seed, prolong his days, and that the purpose of the LORD might prosper by his hand:
11 Of the travail of his soul he shall see to the full, even My servant, who by his knowledge did justify the Righteous One to the many, and their iniquities he did bear. (Isa 53:10-11 JPS)
This we see as the heart of the idea of what "atonement" truly means and from whence all its power and extensions are derived, the idea of a righteous man standing in and taking what an unrighteous man deserves... the just for the unjust, to bring the sinner to God.
And the question that should haunt
anyone that truly
respects the Tanach, is...
Who was this righteous person that was punished with the sins of Israel?
Who was the lamb of God?
