Why will I be going to hell?

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Harel13

Active member
Okay, here again is my question which you have chosen to ignore:

"shnarkle said:
Interesting. Why do you think this? The descriptions I see in the Hebrew scriptures seem to be effectively much the same as those in the Christian texts as well. They're both written by observant Jews so what am I missing?"
I didn't ignore it. I wanted some background info before answering it. Is that possible?
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
I didn't ignore it.
You most certainly ignored it. You have yet to answer, or back up the claims you posted which prompted the questions in the first place. Evidently you have nothing to post on the subject, or perhaps it isn't worth the time.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Christianity isn't Biblical!
OMGosh, oh no I didn't!

Oh, wait. Yes, I did.

Now, how about a relevant comment? Or not. You're free to not say anything as well.
22The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

Isaiah 28:16 KJV — Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Jeremiah 51:26 KJV — And they shall not take of thee a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but thou shalt be desolate for ever, saith the LORD.

Matthew 21:42 KJV — Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?


Luke 13:35 KJV — Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Israel is deaf and blind, only a remnant is saved.
 

Harel13

Active member
You most certainly ignored it. You have yet to answer, or back up the claims you posted which prompted the questions in the first place. Evidently you have nothing to post on the subject, or perhaps it isn't worth the time.
*Shrug* Okay. I was going to answer once you answered some questions which I thought were important to understand where your question was coming from. Evidently you don't care about that. I mean, you could have asked why I was asking you questions. I suppose we'll walk our separate ways now. Bye.
 

Harel13

Active member
I would respect someone who performed miracles. The second question is too hypothetical but if it happened I would suspect fakery.
That's the third question. The second is: Why would your respect someone who performed miracles?
Why would the devil heal anyone?
I said "sorcery", not "the devil". But actually, in Jewish thought, it is believed that in order for free will to work, dark forces must be able to on occasion work as well. Why would a sorcerer heal someone? Well, if you had that power, wouldn't you want to use it? Sorcerers don't have to be bad all day long.
John The Baptists preached repentance. Don't you believe in it and acknowledge it came from God?
What does him preaching repentance have to do with the part of my post that you replied to?
It's worth studying Jesus' allegations of hypocrisy
Why?
and taking them seriously.
Why?
He accused the pharisees of being in league with those who "killed the prophests."
I've been called sub-human. Does that make me sub-human?
Don't understand what you mean by "that these things were reversed?"
I mean that there is no mention anywhere of your claims that certain things were codified only for the exile. The Bible doesn't end in the middle of the exile. It ends near the Greek conquest of the Persian Empire. What's your evidence that these things were exile-only? And what do you make of the pre-exilic sources that tout the same ideas?
Are you jealous that Gentiles were given the opportunity to participate in God's justification and sanctification?
Once again, you keep showing how ignorant you are of Judaism. Congrats on that, I guess. Must be a talent you picked up in church or something. You think Christianity invented worship of God for non-Jews? Wow.
What is "egocentric" about that?
(paraphrasing): "Oh, look at me, I was a top Pharisee, I was a direct student of Gamaliel, I know Torah better than everyone! I am Jesus's favorite. Gentiles, look at me! Be chaste like me!" - The Life of Paul, in one sentence.
Noah was saved by faith, not by law.
Actually, that's not what it says. It says that he was saved because he was righteous. This righteousness is clarified as meaning that he walked before God, not that he stood still and believed. Noach is mentioned a couple more times in Ezekiel, once again as a righteous person. Not faithful. Righteous. In Hebrew, the word for "righteous" is "צדיק" - tzaddik, which has the same root as "justice" - צדק. To be righteous you must act in a just manner. Not be passive.
This it seems neither you nor the Noahides grasp
Indeed. I await non-NT textual evidence.
Rabbinic Judaism which I have little knowledge of as largely opposed to Christ and his jewish disciples.
Saying "Rabbinic Judaism" on everything isn't really an answer to much of anything (also, I don't know why you linked the wiki page to that). The Talmud is the written form of laws codified over the millennia in Judaism, plus various other Jewish traditions in matters of Jewish history, thought, exegesis and other subjects. All of these are brought in the name of the sages that passed down these things. What your question really boils down to is: Where do rabbis get their authority from? It's not about the Babylonian Talmud. There were codices of law before the BT. The Jerusalem Talmud came before it. And before that, collections of mishnas. Your own Epiphanius recorded three such collections in one of his works. And there were others even before. It's about where Jewish authority comes from. And for that, we have some verses:

"If a case is too baffling for you to decide, be it a controversy over homicide, civil law, or assault—matters of dispute in your courts—you shall promptly repair to the place that the LORD your God will have chosen. and appear before the levitical priests, or the magistrate in charge at the time, and present your problem. When they have announced to you the verdict in the case. You shall carry out the verdict that is announced to you from that place that the LORD chose, observing scrupulously all their instructions to you. You shall act in accordance with the instructions given you and the ruling handed down to you; you must not deviate from the verdict that they announce to you either to the right or to the left. Should a man act presumptuously and disregard the priest charged with serving there the LORD your God, or the magistrate, that man shall die. Thus you will sweep out evil from Israel. All the people will hear and be afraid and will not act presumptuously again." (Deuteronomy 17:8-13)

Now imagine you are living in pre-Jesus times. Try to figure out how to properly follow all of the ordinances. You won't be able to. Too many things cannot be properly understood without accepting there was also an oral law. I know Christians state that the meaninglessness of the Torah is simply proof that was not intended to be kept, but: a. Do you really believe that none of the prophets, several of whom had no problems saying whatever they wanted to God, never thought to tell Him: Hey, buddy, this stuff is impossible"? We're talking about thousands of years here, without anyone wising up. b. There are traces of oral tradition even in the books of the Prophets and the Writings. Stuff referring to events in Genesis and the like that aren't written in the Torah.
Because it makes sense.
Yet it's not from God. Okay, suit yourself.
May be you think the Jews didn't sin prior to AD70? That would be presumptuous given the curses and promises in Deuteronomy 28.
Okay, so you're not interested in a serious discussion. Suit yourself.
What do reckon of Jesus' prophesing the fall of Jerusalem in Matt 24?
Made up by later Christians.
My impression is that you suppose Christianity to be anti-intellectual.
That's only half-right. Until a number of years ago, I did think that. Nowadays, my view can be defined with the Hebrew term "מגדלים פורחים באוויר" - "towers floating in the air". The expression is a metaphor for concepts that, while being apparently complex and intelligent-looking, are actually disconnected from reality. They have nothing that actually grounds them. That's what I think of Christianity: It has no grounding in reality, but based on this false premise, Christian thinkers managed to build many wonderful-seeming towers, deepening the theology more and more. But once you clear away all of the fancy theological concepts, you're left with nothing. Just air.
It has deep intellectural foundations formulated by the Jews themselves.
Riggghhht. Okay.
As John was Jew himself
Was he? Not sure 'bout that.
he can't be tarred with anti-semitism
Sure he can. Ever hear of "self-hating Jews"? Paul was another example.
any more than I can be tarred with a racial crime for referring to a "church of satan," where that church is comprised of the same ethnicity as myself.
Sure you can. Ethnic self-hatred is a thing. Sometimes it comes from people who are embarrassed of their background.
Jesus on earth was man, who had limited time as he knew he was going to be executed.
Should've planned things out some more beforehand, huh? Whoops. Also should have programmed better manners into himself. But hey, when I'm in a hurry, I also like to call people dogs. Oh, wait. No, I don't.
If she had deemed him a fool, she wouldn't have asked him.
I didn't say she thought he was a fool. You are correct, she probably wouldn't have turned to him, were that the case. But again, that's not what I said.
However its doesn't preclude insulting the servant being a form of insulting the master.
It does, actually.
 

cjab

Well-known member
That's the third question. The second is: Why would your respect someone who performed miracles?
Evidence of divine favor.

I said "sorcery", not "the devil". But actually, in Jewish thought, it is believed that in order for free will to work, dark forces must be able to on occasion work as well. Why would a sorcerer heal someone? Well, if you had that power, wouldn't you want to use it? Sorcerers don't have to be bad all day long.
Same issue. Sorcerers can't work against their master. If evil spirits cause affliction, a sorcerer cannot summon the power of evil spirits to work against that affliction.

What does him preaching repentance have to do with the part of my post that you replied to?
You were talking about whom you respect. You don't seem to have a lot of respect for anyone in the New Testament if they were associated with Christ except for those whom put Christ to death. That's troubling and linked to your headline topic. cf. "They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head" Jn 15:25.

Why?

Why?
So you don't fall into the perennial trap of hypocrisy.

I've been called sub-human. Does that make me sub-human?
I've been treated as sub human which is much worse than any name.

I mean that there is no mention anywhere of your claims that certain things were codified only for the exile. The Bible doesn't end in the middle of the exile. It ends near the Greek conquest of the Persian Empire. What's your evidence that these things were exile-only? And what do you make of the pre-exilic sources that tout the same ideas?
I never said the bible ended with the exile. I inferred the bible didn't end with the exile because the Messiah hadn't yet arrived, the same Messiah as the Jews were expecting in the days of Jesus. It wasn't anything to do with the Jews being more legalistically righteous during the exile (they had no temple), but because they repented of their idolatries (worship of Tammuz etc).

As it is written: Psalm 40:6 "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but my ears You have opened. Burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not require."

Once again, you keep showing how ignorant you are of Judaism. Congrats on that, I guess. Must be a talent you picked up in church or something. You think Christianity invented worship of God for non-Jews? Wow.
That's not an informative response.

(paraphrasing): "Oh, look at me, I was a top Pharisee, I was a direct student of Gamaliel, I know Torah better than everyone! I am Jesus's favorite. Gentiles, look at me! Be chaste like me!" - The Life of Paul, in one sentence.
Phil 3:7->"But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead." Paul.

Actually, that's not what it says. It says that he was saved because he was righteous. This righteousness is clarified as meaning that he walked before God, not that he stood still and believed. Noach is mentioned a couple more times in Ezekiel, once again as a righteous person. Not faithful. Righteous. In Hebrew, the word for "righteous" is "צדיק" - tzaddik, which has the same root as "justice" - צדק. To be righteous you must act in a just manner. Not be passive.
See the passage above from Phil 3:7 and consider it in the light of Rom3:31 "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

So through faith, the proper measure of righteousness is discerned which is separate from legalistic righteousness.

Noah had faith enough to build the ark, so he is known as a man of faith.

Indeed. I await non-NT textual evidence.
Just given it to you. Noah needed faith to build the ark when he could not see the flood coming.

Saying "Rabbinic Judaism" on everything isn't really an answer to much of anything (also, I don't know why you linked the wiki page to that). The Talmud is the written form of laws codified over the millennia in Judaism, plus various other Jewish traditions in matters of Jewish history, thought, exegesis and other subjects. All of these are brought in the name of the sages that passed down these things. What your question really boils down to is: Where do rabbis get their authority from? It's not about the Babylonian Talmud. There were codices of law before the BT. The Jerusalem Talmud came before it. And before that, collections of mishnas. Your own Epiphanius recorded three such collections in one of his works. And there were others even before. It's about where Jewish authority comes from. And for that, we have some verses:

Now imagine you are living in pre-Jesus times. Try to figure out how to properly follow all of the ordinances. You won't be able to. Too many things cannot be properly understood without accepting there was also an oral law. I know Christians state that the meaninglessness of the Torah is simply proof that was not intended to be kept, but: a. Do you really believe that none of the prophets, several of whom had no problems saying whatever they wanted to God, never thought to tell Him: Hey, buddy, this stuff is impossible"? We're talking about thousands of years here, without anyone wising up. b. There are traces of oral tradition even in the books of the Prophets and the Writings. Stuff referring to events in Genesis and the like that aren't written in the Torah.
I accept what you say. What Christ was critiquing was especially oral traditions that nullified major commands i.e.

Mat 15:4 "For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’

Mat 15:5 "But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’"

Mat 15:6 "they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition."

Mat 15:7 "You hypocrites!"

Yet it's not from God. Okay, suit yourself.

Okay, so you're not interested in a serious discussion. Suit yourself.
Just avoiding the issue of why God ejected the Jews from the promised land.

Made up by later Christians.
Prove it.

That's only half-right. Until a number of years ago, I did think that. Nowadays, my view can be defined with the Hebrew term "מגדלים פורחים באוויר" - "towers floating in the air". The expression is a metaphor for concepts that, while being apparently complex and intelligent-looking, are actually disconnected from reality. They have nothing that actually grounds them. That's what I think of Christianity: It has no grounding in reality, but based on this false premise, Christian thinkers managed to build many wonderful-seeming towers, deepening the theology more and more. But once you clear away all of the fancy theological concepts, you're left with nothing. Just air.
Actually you're left with the necessity for faith which is what Christianity is all about. Check out https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews 11&version=NIV.

Riggghhht. Okay.

Was he? Not sure 'bout that.

Sure he can. Ever hear of "self-hating Jews"? Paul was another example.

Sure you can. Ethnic self-hatred is a thing. Sometimes it comes from people who are embarrassed of their background.
Nothing to suggest that the apostles hated themselves. Rather they found a peace in the gospel that came not from the world.

John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

Should've planned things out some more beforehand, huh? Whoops. Also should have programmed better manners into himself. But hey, when I'm in a hurry, I also like to call people dogs. Oh, wait. No, I don't.
Not executed for calling Canaanites dogs, but because he chose not escape from his persecutors to fulfil the prophecies and to bear the sins of the world "Cursed is Everyone Who Hangs on a Tree" Deut 21:23.

Gal 3:13 "Thus Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is every one who hangeth on a tree"


I didn't say she thought he was a fool. You are correct, she probably wouldn't have turned to him, were that the case. But again, that's not what I said.

It does, actually.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
For those who don't know, I'm an Orthodox Jew (you can check it out on my profile). Many a member here has informed me over the last two years that I will be going to hell. It has occurred to me that as Christians do not agree on many matters (as they say, "two Christians, thirty-thousand opinions"), perhaps they also do not agree on why exactly I will be going to hell.

So please, lay it on me: Do Christians who believe this agree on the exact reasoning? And if not, what arguments does one denomination have over the views of other denominations?

Have a good weekend, by the way.
All Christians will have the same response.

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Him.

A sincere question:
Why was it necessary for the blood of a lamb to be painted on the lintel and door posts of every door in order for the first-born children not to die?

and when he sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the Lord will pass over the door and will not allow the destroyer to enter your houses to strike you. 24 You shall observe this rite as a statute for you and for your sons forever. (Ex 12)

Did your Father and you and your sons stop to observe this rite, and if yes, why?
 

Dant01

Active member
.
Matt 13:42 . . there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church; and was eventually
enrolled in catechism where I completed First Holy Communion and Confirmation.
Although catechism did a good job of instilling within me the reality of hell; it
wasn't until I saw an impressionist painting by Gustave Doré depicting a scene from
Dante Alighieri's Inferno that I realized the degree of despair gripping the minds
and hearts of people in the netherworld.

People down there know it's permanent, but probably hoping against hope that it
isn't. That's what makes hell so much worse than any other source of misery one
can possibly imagine. If only they could see a light at the end of the tunnel; but
that's just it: there is no end of the tunnel; it's like a Gerbil exercise wheel; within
which the little rodents run and run and run but get nowhere.

They say hope springs eternal in the human heart. Well; not down there. No; down
there hope is futile. The temperature is bad enough; but it's the permanence of hell
that I would imagine hurts the most.

I sometimes wish there were tour buses to hell so people could see what's in store
for them down there. Maybe it would motivate them to begin using what time they
have remaining to prepare themselves for the worst when they pass on.

People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ, but since
before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I won't speculate
how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by some to have achieved
full behavioral modernity something like 50,000 years ago. (There's new findings
suggesting that human existence goes as far back as 150-300,000 years) Anyway;
whether that extends clear on back to Adam and Eve I have no clue; but just think:
if it does, then Cain and others from his era have been down in the netherworld all
this time.

It's difficult for the human mind to appreciate 50,000 years let alone 300,000. I've
been on the Earth for just 77, and I've noticed that my childhood is so far in the
past to me now as to seem more like a fantasy than a memory. But you know;
when you're talking about eternity, 50,000 years isn't even a drop in the bucket. If
it were a drop in the bucket, it would be a bucket with no bottom; which is roughly
akin to the futility of a gnat attempting to drink up the Atlantic ocean.
_
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
Thanks, but I'm not looking for how to prevent it. I plan on being an Orthodox Jew until my dying breath. What are your thoughts on the actual question in my OP?
You just answered your own question! The reason anyone goes to Hell is by not believing Jesus to be King of kings and Lord of lords. Orthodox Jews do not hold Jesus as either Messiah or their Lord, which would make not going to Hell impossible.


Doug
 

Dant01

Active member
.
Isa 66:22-24 . . From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to
another, all mankind will come and bow down before me-- speaks the Lord. And
they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against Me:
their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome
to all mankind.

A worm that thrives in fire is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable. The 4-inch
Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176° Fahrenheit; hot enough to
kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create a worm like the
Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even
warmer.

According to Ezek 20:33-38 a number of Jews will be in that smoking pile of dead
bodies.
_
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
For those who don't know, I'm an Orthodox Jew (you can check it out on my profile). Many a member here has informed me over the last two years that I will be going to hell.
There are lots of wonderful things about Judaism. But it cannot save. Only Christ can save.
It has occurred to me that as Christians do not agree on many matters
Oh, yeah, that's why we have dozens, if not hundreds of creeds, confessions, catechisms, etc, preach the same Gospel, worship with the same hymns, etc. Because we don't agree on many matters.
perhaps they also do not agree on why exactly I will be going to hell.

So please, lay it on me: Do Christians who believe this agree on the exact reasoning? And if not, what arguments does one denomination have over the views of other denominations?
Irrelevant. Truth isn't determined by majority vote or who believes or agrees about what.

The Bible says people go to Hell as punishment for their sin.
 

Dant01

Active member
.
The criminal records kept on file associated with the great white throne event
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 likely won't be used only to condemn people's actions,
but also to prove that the people themselves are not the caliber of folk with whom
God prefers to associate.

For example; God isn't comfortable with dishonesty. So if the records show that
someone was deceptive and/or told a number lies during their lifetime, then they
will be barred from heaven; not only for their dishonesty, but also because they are
capable of dishonesty.

Prov 6:16-19 . . There are six things The Lord hates, seven that are detestable to
him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that
devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who
pours out lies, and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

Ps 15:1-3 . . Lord, who may dwell in your sanctuary? Who may live on your holy
hill? He whose walk is blameless and who does what is righteous, who speaks the
truth from his heart and has no slander on his tongue, who does his neighbor no
wrong and casts no slur on his fellowman, who despises a vile man but honors
those who fear The Lord, who keeps his oath even when it hurts, who lends his
money without usury and does not accept a bribe against the innocent. He who
does these things will never be shaken.
_
 

JNelson

Well-known member
For those who don't know, I'm an Orthodox Jew (you can check it out on my profile). Many a member here has informed me over the last two years that I will be going to hell. It has occurred to me that as Christians do not agree on many matters (as they say, "two Christians, thirty-thousand opinions"), perhaps they also do not agree on why exactly I will be going to hell.

So please, lay it on me: Do Christians who believe this agree on the exact reasoning? And if not, what arguments does one denomination have over the views of other denominations?

Have a good weekend, by the way.
Hi there,

I am an evangelical Christian who has been told countless times by other Christians that I am going to hell.

Why? Because I don’t believe in the trinity. I believe there is only one God, YHWH and that Jesus was a human being, created miraculously in Mary’s womb by God. Jesus is the Messiah whi lived a perfect life and was killed and rose on the third day but he wasn’t God. The trinity is the invention of later Greek philosophical minded men.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
For those who don't know, I'm an Orthodox Jew (you can check it out on my profile). Many a member here has informed me over the last two years that I will be going to hell.
IF you go to hell, the only reason would be that you were never cleansed of your SIN by FAITH, Gifted by God (Eph 2:8,9) in the SIN OFFERING (isa 53:10). of Messiah - whom you and your religious system reject.

Simple as that.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
For those who don't know, I'm an Orthodox Jew (you can check it out on my profile). Many a member here has informed me over the last two years that I will be going to hell. It has occurred to me that as Christians do not agree on many matters (as they say, "two Christians, thirty-thousand opinions"), perhaps they also do not agree on why exactly I will be going to hell.

So please, lay it on me: Do Christians who believe this agree on the exact reasoning? And if not, what arguments does one denomination have over the views of other denominations?

Have a good weekend, by the way.
If you are; as you say
an "Orthodox Jew "
then you need to set your Heart to understand the words of Paul to
the Mother of all the quote / quote Christian Churches

Romans 3:1
What advantage then hath the Jew?
or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way:
chiefly, because that unto them
(the Jew / circumcision? )
were committed the oracles of God.

3 For what if some did not believe?
shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

and then Paul tells the Roman Church who the
"Elect of God" are

and John writes of them
Revelation 7:1​
And after these things I saw four angels standing on
the four corners of the earth,
holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth,
nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God:
and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees,
till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed:
and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
 

1Thess521

Well-known member
For those who don't know, I'm an Orthodox Jew (you can check it out on my profile). Many a member here has informed me over the last two years that I will be going to hell. It has occurred to me that as Christians do not agree on many matters (as they say, "two Christians, thirty-thousand opinions"), perhaps they also do not agree on why exactly I will be going to hell.

So please, lay it on me: Do Christians who believe this agree on the exact reasoning? And if not, what arguments does one denomination have over the views of other denominations?

Have a good weekend, by the way.
Peopleend up in Hell because that is the just punishment for their sins against a Holy God.
(that was easy)

The sinners who don't end up in Hell is because someone else paid the penalty for their sins.
 

curious

Member
According to the New Testament, if one's name is not found in the book of life, their location will be the Lake of Fire.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Hence John 3:16.

I hope you do not mind the following question, what is the Jewish view on the angel of the Lord?
 

curious

Member
No one goes to hell! The false pagan teachings on hell are not even in the scriptures never mind that many do not understand the literal and figurative meanings of Gehenna and Hades!
Problem ---
(Rev 20:13 [KJV])
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

(Rev 20:14 [KJV])
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
.
I once heard a minister tell the story of a busload of hell's people who were given a
30-day furlough for some R&R in Heaven. They all came back the first night
because God's world was such a bore.

There were no wild parties, no clothing-optional beaches, no bars, no night clubs,
no porn, no gambling, no pigging-out at buffets, no fights, no profanity, no ribaldry,
no free sex, no vulgar late-night comedy, no exotic dancers, no X-rated movies, no
junk food, no tobacco, no marijuana, no meth, no ecstasy, no LSD, no hunting for
sport, no fishing for sport, and no vices like gambling and prostitution.

And they had trouble seeing their way around. The light in Heaven was so bright that
they had to protect their eyes all the time with welding goggles.

And the hellsters didn't particularly care for the isolation. None of the good folk in
heaven wanted to associate with them: they were ostracized, they were
segregated, and they were quarantined.

Heaven is a pleasant utopia. It's etiquette, its dress code, and its rules of conduct
and civility; were way too strict for the hellsters. Especially suffocating is the
mandatory self control everyone has to exercise in their choice of words to avoid
hurting people's feelings.

In other words: Heaven is a place prepared for a prepared people. Normal people
would quite naturally find heaven disagreeable— they just wouldn't fit in
especially with its lack of privacy, its 24-7 Big Brother oversight, and its strict codes
of conduct. Take for example Wall Street barracudas. Do you really think they'd be
happy in heaven? No. Or sweat shop operators? No. Or influence peddlers? No. Or
cruel lords like Xi Jinping, Robert Mugabe and Kim Jong Un? No. Or adulterers and
fornicators? No.

Or lobbyists? No. Or J-walking pedestrians? No. Or LGBT? No. Or greedy
businessmen like Phil Knight, Bill Gates, and/or Jeff Bezos? Or unscrupulous social
networking moguls like Mark Zuckerberg? No. Or bookies? Or activists? Or militant
demonstrators and protestors? No. No. No. You see many of the things that hell's
people do are unacceptable in Heaven; and in point of fact, none of Heaven's
people even have an interest in many of the things that interest hell's people.

You know what else is lacking in Heaven? Religious tolerance. There is only one
religion in up there. What's that tell you? Well; it tells me that the establishment
clause of the US Constitution's first amendment doesn't fly in Heaven. The
theocratic monarchy in Heaven insists upon dictating everyone's religious
preference.

In other words: Heaven's utopian society, coupled with its 24/7 Big Brother
oversight, was just simply too much to ask in exchange for some time off. To the
hellsters, Heaven was worse than a gulag.
_
Sounds like C.S. Lewis' short story: "The great divorce" which is very insightful.
 
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