Why would God say rape is wrong?

Algor

Well-known member
And isn’t it a mere personal preference to follow God?

One can frame any ethos, any morality, as ‘just a preference’ and it’s followers as merely self interested, so long as one is indifferent to the facts of how people work.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
And isn’t it a mere personal preference to follow God?
Yes, it often is I think. A lot believe because they want to, they want it to be true.
One can frame any ethos, any morality, as ‘just a preference’ and it’s followers as merely self interested, so long as one is indifferent to the facts of how people work.
Can you enlarge on that?
 

Algor

Well-known member
Yes, it often is I think. A lot believe because they want to, they want it to be true.

Can you enlarge on that?
Its a fairly common attack on any ethic: “you just do that because it makes you feel good. Talking about God, or virtue, or whatever is just cover for the the fact that under all the excuses its just that these things make you feel good so you do them. “

This sort of reasoning simply ignores the fact that atheists, Christians, Muslims, etc will suffer and die for their ideas and are capable of marked, sustained and determined selflessness on the one hand, and almost automatic self sacrifice on the other. And when you ask such people why they do such things, a lot of the time they say things like “I didn’t feel I had a choice. I knew what I had to do, and did it. I knew what was right and so I did it. Anybody would have done the same.” Any account of human nature that ignores or trivializes this fact about human behaviour is seriously incomplete.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
The reason a moral value can transcend personal preference is because of the weight of value placed upon it, and no one human being has the weight of worth required to arbitrate values for all others.

What Algor or Whatisisface considers about rape, does not have enough importance to apply to all beings for all time because they do not have infinite worth and are not the source of all created things.

We are given the option to devalue God's morality, he grants the freedom to do this, because freedom is a facet that allows one more way to value God, and so we have the option to put our own subjective feelings over God.

When I say something is wrong or right, I can know it's more than just what I prefer, because an infinite Being is the source of the nobility, purpose, honor, worth, and rightness of the action, not my feelings, and his valuations are the basis for his judgments, not my petty preferences or idols.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
“I didn’t feel I had a choice. I knew what I had to do, and did it. I knew what was right and so I did it. Anybody would have done the same.”

Serial rapists have said the same thing and used the same logic. Does it make them virtuous?
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
The reason a moral value can transcend personal preference is because of the weight of value placed upon it, and no one human being has the weight of worth required to arbitrate values for all others.

What Algor or Whatisisface considers about rape, does not have enough importance to apply to all beings for all time because they do not have infinite worth and are not the source of all created things.

We are given the option to devalue God's morality, he grants the freedom to do this, because freedom is a facet that allows one more way to value God, and so we have the option to put our own subjective feelings over God.

When I say something is wrong or right, I can know it's more than just what I prefer, because an infinite Being is the source of the nobility, purpose, honor, worth, and rightness of the action, not my feelings, and his valuations are the basis for his judgments, not my petty preferences or idols.
That's an interesting answer, but I don't think it answers the OP, in that it doesn't say why God would say rape is wrong.
 
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Algor

Well-known member
The reason a moral value can transcend personal preference is because of the weight of value placed upon it, and no one human being has the weight of worth required to arbitrate values for all others.

What Algor or Whatisisface considers about rape, does not have enough importance to apply to all beings for all time because they do not have infinite worth and are not the source of all created things.

We are given the option to devalue God's morality, he grants the freedom to do this, because freedom is a facet that allows one more way to value God, and so we have the option to put our own subjective feelings over God.

When I say something is wrong or right, I can know it's more than just what I prefer, because an infinite Being is the source of the nobility, purpose, honor, worth, and rightness of the action, not my feelings, and his valuations are the basis for his judgments, not my petty preferences or idols.
But that is only what the Deity says he is: you have no objective proof of that outside your experience. So its really back to personal preference. I could accuse you of simply following your prejudices as well. (to be clear, I don’t. People who act in good faith are usually trying to find good past simply themselves, IMHO. I’m just following the logic of the argument)
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
What Algor or Whatisisface considers about rape, does not have enough importance to apply to all beings for all time because they do not have infinite worth and are not the source of all created things.
So that rape causes great harm does not have enough importance to be able to say it's wrong?
When I say something is wrong or right, I can know it's more than just what I prefer, because an infinite Being is the source of the nobility, purpose, honor, worth, and rightness of the action, not my feelings, and his valuations are the basis for his judgments, not my petty preferences or idols.
But this only goes as far as saying that only God in His infinite wisdom can rightly say rape is wrong. It doesn't go that step further and say why He would say rape is wrong.
 

Algernon

Active member
So I'm wondering, why would God say rape is wrong?
For the same underlying reason that many cultures throughout history within both theistic and secular schools of thought have said it is wrong. Of course this assumes the God of Jesus rather than the Bible as a whole. The Bible very widely open to interpretation. Over the centuries Christians have been on completely opposite sides on topics such as slavery, capital punishment, race, women, LGBT, etc. The list goes on and on. People interpret the Bible based on their own subjective standard.

I've been told recently that atheism has no basis to say anything is right or wrong, it's all just a personal preference.
They have a basis. In fact it is the same basis that Jesus espoused while He preached His gospel.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Just because some like you want rape to be ok doesn't mean anyone will agree with you silly.
It's you who can't say why rape is wrong without God telling you, but I can give good reasons as to why it is.

Tell me, if God didn't exist, would you rape a woman? If not, why not.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
For the same underlying reason that many cultures throughout history within both theistic and secular schools of thought have said it is wrong. Of course this assumes the God of Jesus rather than the Bible as a whole. The Bible very widely open to interpretation. Over the centuries Christians have been on completely opposite sides on topics such as slavery, capital punishment, race, women, LGBT, etc. The list goes on and on. People interpret the Bible based on their own subjective standard.


They have a basis. In fact it is the same basis that Jesus espoused while He preached His gospel.
Thanks for the reply.
 

Algernon

Active member
The reason a moral value can transcend personal preference is because of the weight of value placed upon it, and no one human being has the weight of worth required to arbitrate values for all others.

What Algor or Whatisisface considers about rape, does not have enough importance to apply to all beings for all time because they do not have infinite worth and are not the source of all created things.

We are given the option to devalue God's morality, he grants the freedom to do this, because freedom is a facet that allows one more way to value God, and so we have the option to put our own subjective feelings over God.

When I say something is wrong or right, I can know it's more than just what I prefer, because an infinite Being is the source of the nobility, purpose, honor, worth, and rightness of the action, not my feelings, and his valuations are the basis for his judgments, not my petty preferences or idols.
Speak all you want about "God's morality".

The Bible as a whole is very widely open to interpretation. Over the centuries Christians have been on completely opposite sides on topics such as slavery, capital punishment, race, women, LGBT, etc. The list goes on and on. People interpret the Bible based on their own subjective standard.

Your interpretation of the Bible is subjective. You have no objective standard for interpretation of the Bible, therefore the Bible does not provide you with an objective moral standard.

If you don't have an objective standard for interpretation of the Bible, then the Bible does not provide you with an objective moral standard.

As such, the Bible on the whole does not provide you with "God's morality".
 
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Whatsisface

Well-known member
So you are a god now?
You seem to be having difficulty answering questions. Look, here's how it's done. No, I don't think you have to be a God to be able to say that rape is wrong. All you have to do is look at the harm it causes.
So, the question you haven't answered is, if God didn't exist, would you rape a woman? You seem remarkably reluctant to say no. Surely, you shouldn't have to think about it for a second?
 

Furion

Well-known member
You seem to be having difficulty answering questions. Look, here's how it's done. No, I don't think you have to be a God to be able to say that rape is wrong. All you have to do is look at the harm it causes.
So, the question you haven't answered is, if God didn't exist, would you rape a woman? You seem remarkably reluctant to say no. Surely, you shouldn't have to think about it for a second?
I merely watch you squirm trying to figure out the moral status of rape.

I know the little twinkle star doesn't tell you, nor does the rain or the cactus.

It seems you search for an answer but cannot find one.

You will just have to rest in the knowledge that you tried, boy did you try, to find the moral answers that you seek.

Here is what you can do, eat drink and be merry because it will all be over soon enough.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
I've been told recently that atheism has no basis to say anything is right or wrong, it's all just a personal preference. So I'm wondering, why would God say rape is wrong?
Where in the Bible does God say rape is wrong? Let's start there.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
I merely watch you squirm trying to figure out the moral status of rape.
Completely wrong. I've given you said reason, and you've just ignored it. You haven't given any reason as to why it might be wrong. You also haven't answered the question asking if God didn't exist, would you rape a woman? It's incredible that you can't bring yourself to say no.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Where in the Bible does God say rape is wrong? Let's start there.
I don't know. Do you mean it doesn't?

The point is, I've been told that I have no basis to say rape is wrong, but that Christians do because God is the only person who knows. So i'm wondering, why would God say rape is wrong?
 
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