Will Trump pardon himself?

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
I would say no. Either he knows that he has done something that requires a pardon or he doesn't. If he doesn't there is no need for a pardon if he does, he knows (or would be advised) that a self-pardon is uncertain. Instead, he can wait until his last day, resign and get Pence to pardon him. There are precedents for that.

Doesn't help with the New York state indictments though.

Wales tribalists don't understand American laws. No conviction means no pardon required.

You don't understand crimes and torts.
 

J regia

Well-known member
I think Trump should offer Biden a pardon if he concedes now... and offers an apology to the American People!
So what crime has Biden been charged with or convicted of?

But more important, should Biden offer trump a pardon if he concedes now?

And even though it's not all over till the fat lady sings, it's still all over even if the fat pig doesn't sing.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Wales tribalists don't understand American laws. No conviction means no pardon required.

You don't understand crimes and torts.
Why then was Nixon pardoned by Ford? Of what crime was he committed? I clearly know more about American law and history, than you do.

Tort, by the way, is completely irrelevant. We are not discussing civil cases. You should avoid picking up random words and phrases from the internet, then flinging them about in a futile effort to impress. It has the opposite effect, exposing your ignorance and opening you to ridicule. I give you this advice pro bono.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
1. No, the original question was about evidence for the idea that you could be pardoned without being convicted, see your post #21.

2. For the question about pardoned of what, just look at the video, it's only a couple of minutes long or so. Jeez, you can't do even that after asking for evidence that anyone could Google or find on YouTube? This is not what intellectual honesty looks like.
Your haughty judgement and hypocrisy are noted
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
Your haughty judgement and hypocrisy are noted
Haughtiness isn't a problem if it calls out something true. Note that the video was not that long; I've resisted watching videos that are much longer. I also provided a text summary of what was in the video, given that what Nixon was pardoned for wasn't the issue. So I don't see where you get hypocrisy.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
So he is going to pardon himself for the crime of . . . and there insert the entire US Code? The left has been so irrational for so long now, they may never recover the ability to think coherently.
All those IRS audits and Gaming Commission exams and other torts also?

They forget he loses his gaming license if he gets a felony conviction.
 

4givenmuch

New Member
It would appear that a president has the ability to pardon him-or-herself. Whether this would survive a SCOTUS challenge is another question, but for the sake of this thread, let's assume such a pardon would be upheld.

Will Trump pardon himself before he leaves office?

Answer Yes, No or I Don't Know, and explain why.
Pardon himself from what? The phony Russian collusion or maybe the phony impeachment charge that should have gone to Biden. Biden should be the one that's worried with his ties to China and Ukraine among other things. Trump was investigated for over 2 years and they found NOTHING!
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Pardon himself from what? The phony Russian collusion or maybe the phony impeachment charge that should have gone to Biden. Biden should be the one that's worried with his ties to China and Ukraine among other things. Trump was investigated for over 2 years and they found NOTHING!
Big Ears spied on him for 2 years before that.

Hunter Biden has dumped evidence of Creapy Joe taking bribes.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Pardon himself from what?
The multiple investigations he, his businesses and his family are the targets of. He can only pardon himself (in theory) for potential federal charges, though; he can't escape from state charges, nor from lawsuits that he's been using his time in office to shield himself from.

You can look these up pretty easily, but here's one quick resource: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/office-president-trump-face-legal-vulnerabilities/story?id=74116717

edit: be skeptical all you want of ******'s "need" to pardon himself, but it's been widely reported that he's been asking how it would be done since he took office in 2017...
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
The multiple investigations he, his businesses and his family are the targets of. He can only pardon himself (in theory) for potential federal charges, though; he can't escape from state charges, nor from lawsuits that he's been using his time in office to shield himself from.

You can look these up pretty easily, but here's one quick resource: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/office-president-trump-face-legal-vulnerabilities/story?id=74116717

edit: be skeptical all you want of ******'s "need" to pardon himself, but it's been widely reported that he's been asking how it would be done since he took office in 2017...
Fake News.

So why are you proud of creepy Joe's bribes from Ukraine and China?

Hi ES. I used to post here under the names ObjectivelyMoral, America and (way back in the day) Whateverman. It's funny to me that my old banned account.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Not what I said.
I've never been so glad to be wrong.
Trump's behaviour affects what I think of him.
That sound reasonable as a general proposition. So what is his appropriate sanction for his puffery, hyperbole, superlatives, and epigram?
What I think influences how I behave, but there are other factors involved.
Could you be a bit more vague? I honestly can't see how.
This powerful conspiracy, capable not only of twisting the vote tallies in several states, some controlled by Republicans, using different methods, in such a way that their influence is undetected and any evidence ridiculed,
What do you mean undetected? Are you aware of the lawsuits?
subverts the public will
If election skulduggery is not aimed at changing a result why bother? Do people have a preference for prison food?
and ensures that Biden gets 6 million more votes than he is entitled to.
The total number of votes is totally irrelevant, it's where they fall.
And yet it completely fails to do anything about the coat tails, so that Biden is deprived of the senate majority he would need to carry out his evil agenda.
There is quite a bit of engineering to steal one national election. To steal dozens at that same time is orders of magnitude more difficult. But you are quite right to point out that the proposition that Joe Biden had negative coattails is absurd. Look at Nixon's reelection in 1972. He lost seats, Trump gained seats.
Your conspiracy theory needs work. It doesn't make sense.
Your recalcitrance doesn't make sense. There is a lot that needs to be explained and zero believable explanations.
and he loves kittens as and is kind to orphans. You should write his hagiography.
Do you get your information by A) actually watching Trump stand before a hostile press corp and take questions, virtually every one falsely predicated, and then listen to his answers or B) by watching the main stream news cut 30 seconds out of a 3 minute answer? Joe Biden said as recently as the past couple of weeks that Trump said there were good racists in Charlottesville. There are people all over the world that believe that lie, and I'll bet dollars to donuts that you are one of them. You give every indication of not having a clue.
The "elites" don't write his tweets for him, or his unguarded ad libs into microphones. I don't judge people by what I read other people say about them. I am judging by his own words, published and recorded.
Great, you just answered my question; you don't have a clue. If you have the slightest interest in the truth, watch his pressers in real time and compare that to what is written in tomorrows papers. You only have to do this once to conclude he has been lied about every single day from the moment he got into office. There is zero subtlety narrative manufacturing process so you can't miss it.
Except what he said was that there were "good people on both sides" I know that. It might even be true. Walking with nazis doesn't make one a Nazi. It doesn't make you a good person either.
The rally was about keep the statues up, and there are all kinds of totally legitimate reasons to take and hold that position, and to show up and be counted on a public policy question. Good and decent people show up and have no idea who is going to be there.
The point is what he didn't say.
He condemned the racist and the white supremacist. His answer to the reporter's question was three or four minutes long and they clip this condemnation out. That was no some after the fact denouncement, it was real time.
He didn't condemn specific acts of racism.
A reporter who has been predicating his questions to you on the lie what you are colluding with Vladimir Putin, and then he asks you some other question predicated on some other fact you don't know the truth of, I don't know about you, but that would make me cautious. When you have to accept predicate to answer the question that is called a loaded question. That is just about the only kind of question Trump gets.
He didn't call out or condemn racist groups, then or ever.
He did it then, and dozens of times sense. It's not possible that you are that ignorant, is it? This is an easily ascertainable fact, you can verify with your own eyes. The people who don't know this fact don't want to know.
He clearly believed, and still does, that the far-right are his people and he wants to keep them.
And that is why he condemned them and denounced them?
He is being judged by the company he keeps.
Excuse me but it's Joe Biden who brags about doing business with racists in Washington, not Donald Trump. Pull the video and watch it for yourself.
Except that hasn't been established at all.
Hunter Biden has not disputed that those are his emails. Joe Biden has not disputed that those are Hunters emails. You are not mildly curious why such an obvious denial was not proffered?
You usually appear relatively calm and rational, then you make an utterly bizarre, but revealing statement like this.
Where is that statement coming from? What do you believe the facts to be?
Are you saying that he wasn't impeached?
You seem to be confused about what that means.
You really don't believe in the free market system do you?
That's what makes polling organizations like the Trafalgar Group possible, which actually did a very good job in 2016 and this year. But it was so much an outlier Real Clear Politics didn't even put it in their average; which would have saved them a lot of embarrassment.
What possible incentive is there for rival polling companies, all using different systems, all seeking to be the most accurate, to all collude in giving the wrong answer? To believe this requires some industrial level paranoia.
These organizations are often paid by the media companies who have political agendas and very much have a dog in this hunt. If you don't know this you've been asleep for decades.
You didn't see six states all stop counting simultaneously, because it didn't happen.
Multiple swing states claimed to stopped counting at the same time, your problem is not with me it's with Bret Baier. It's alleged for example that Pennsylvania did this to eject the observers, but did continue to count under cover of darkness. Read all about it in the legal filings.
You will have seen states complete counting in-person votes, which favoured Trump, and start counting postal votes which favoured Biden.
With the recruitment of postal Union employees, little wonder. Read more about that in those legal filings too.
Google is merely a portal.
Actually it's not. Explained: Google Could Manipulate 15 Million Votes in 2020
 

Temujin

Well-known member
I've never been so glad to be wrong.

That sound reasonable as a general proposition. So what is his appropriate sanction for his puffery, hyperbole, superlatives, and epigram?

Could you be a bit more vague? I honestly can't see how.

What do you mean undetected? Are you aware of the lawsuits?

If election skulduggery is not aimed at changing a result why bother? Do people have a preference for prison food?

The total number of votes is totally irrelevant, it's where they fall.

There is quite a bit of engineering to steal one national election. To steal dozens at that same time is orders of magnitude more difficult. But you are quite right to point out that the proposition that Joe Biden had negative coattails is absurd. Look at Nixon's reelection in 1972. He lost seats, Trump gained seats.

Your recalcitrance doesn't make sense. There is a lot that needs to be explained and zero believable explanations.

Do you get your information by A) actually watching Trump stand before a hostile press corp and take questions, virtually every one falsely predicated, and then listen to his answers or B) by watching the main stream news cut 30 seconds out of a 3 minute answer? Joe Biden said as recently as the past couple of weeks that Trump said there were good racists in Charlottesville. There are people all over the world that believe that lie, and I'll bet dollars to donuts that you are one of them. You give every indication of not having a clue.

Great, you just answered my question; you don't have a clue. If you have the slightest interest in the truth, watch his pressers in real time and compare that to what is written in tomorrows papers. You only have to do this once to conclude he has been lied about every single day from the moment he got into office. There is zero subtlety narrative manufacturing process so you can't miss it.

The rally was about keep the statues up, and there are all kinds of totally legitimate reasons to take and hold that position, and to show up and be counted on a public policy question. Good and decent people show up and have no idea who is going to be there.

He condemned the racist and the white supremacist. His answer to the reporter's question was three or four minutes long and they clip this condemnation out. That was no some after the fact denouncement, it was real time.

A reporter who has been predicating his questions to you on the lie what you are colluding with Vladimir Putin, and then he asks you some other question predicated on some other fact you don't know the truth of, I don't know about you, but that would make me cautious. When you have to accept predicate to answer the question that is called a loaded question. That is just about the only kind of question Trump gets.

He did it then, and dozens of times sense. It's not possible that you are that ignorant, is it? This is an easily ascertainable fact, you can verify with your own eyes. The people who don't know this fact don't want to know.

And that is why he condemned them and denounced them?

Excuse me but it's Joe Biden who brags about doing business with racists in Washington, not Donald Trump. Pull the video and watch it for yourself.

Hunter Biden has not disputed that those are his emails. Joe Biden has not disputed that those are Hunters emails. You are not mildly curious why such an obvious denial was not proffered?

Where is that statement coming from? What do you believe the facts to be?

You seem to be confused about what that means.

That's what makes polling organizations like the Trafalgar Group possible, which actually did a very good job in 2016 and this year. But it was so much an outlier Real Clear Politics didn't even put it in their average; which would have saved them a lot of embarrassment.

These organizations are often paid by the media companies who have political agendas and very much have a dog in this hunt. If you don't know this you've been asleep for decades.

Multiple swing states claimed to stopped counting at the same time, your problem is not with me it's with Bret Baier. It's alleged for example that Pennsylvania did this to eject the observers, but did continue to count under cover of darkness. Read all about it in the legal filings.

With the recruitment of postal Union employees, little wonder. Read more about that in those legal filings too.

Actually it's not. Explained: Google Could Manipulate 15 Million Votes in 2020
I sense that we need to wait a few days to see the results of the court cases. How do you think they are going? You only need to overturn the results in Pa plus two other states. Should be a snip.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
All those IRS audits and Gaming Commission exams and other torts also?
This may come as a shock to you but it's not a crime to be audited, or undergo a Gaming Commission exam.
They forget he loses his gaming license if he gets a felony conviction.
If he still have a gaming license I'd be shocked. My understanding is that he's been out of the gaming business for quite some time.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
I sense that we need to wait a few days to see the results of the court cases. How do you think they are going? You only need to overturn the results in Pa plus two other states. Should be a snip.
Sidney Powell discusses Dominion voting machines. "President Trump won this election in a landslide" -- Sidney Powell.

 
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