Will "unified" Catholics be backing Mother Miriam?

Stella1000

Well-known member
We don't evangelize fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. We evangelize the lost. I thought you would have figured out the purpose of this website by now.
1 Peter 3 Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you, 16 yet do it with gentleness and respect.

The problem is that if a lost soul reads scripture and sees this identification of what an evangeliser is but can't recognise that in them, the 'evangeliser' will be ineffective and maybe worse, drives others off Christ. To be effective we have to be on the same page about what 'gentleness and respect' actually mean to the 'lost' person.
 

mica

Well-known member
Jesus Christ, God Incarnate upon the earth.

Written by the early leaders of the Church, those known as the Early Church Fathers. They were around as the Christian Church was moving forward in those early centuries, way before your leaders came into existence in the 16th century.
the Christian Church began in the 1st century with Christ as its leader. catholics totally skip over that and pay no attention to the teachings of Jesus and His apostles.

Yep. It all arrived a millennia and a half down the line with the rejection of solid Christian doctrine by men who claimed to know better.
catholics are the ones who reject that for the man made doctrines of the rcc men.
 
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PeanutGallery

Well-known member
By what authority do you claim 'Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium' which is not found in the whole counsel of God?
Jesus Christ, God Incarnate upon the earth.

Provide scripture where Jesus Christ, God Incarnate, stated "Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium", something like:

RCC 3:16 All Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
RCC 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 

mica

Well-known member
1 Peter 3 Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you, 16 yet do it with gentleness and respect.

The problem is that if a lost soul reads scripture and sees this identification of what an evangeliser is but can't recognise that in them, the 'evangeliser' will be ineffective and maybe worse, drives others off Christ. To be effective we have to be on the same page about what 'gentleness and respect' actually mean to the 'lost' person.
that's something that catholics can't do.

how does a catholic evangelize someone when they don't know Christ or His word?
 

Misfit

Well-known member
It should make sense.
No it does not.
Youre trying to lasso us into your church by pretending to be what you clearly aren't.
I'm not trying to lasso anyone into anything. I seek to defend the faith against the many false claims against us. While I would be glad to see you accept the truth of the Catholic faith (especially Jesus's Real Presence in the holy Eucharist) that is something that can only happen by your free will.

We've tried, however unsuccessfully to show catholics their teachings are nowhere in the bible.
All you show us is that you have a different interpretation of those things that are in the bible. What we believe is in there, you just refuse to see it. You have your own interpretation that's all, and it's one that never existed for centuries.

So yes, we (myself included) have spent years here talking with catholics and trying to get them to see that what they believe isn't biblical.
You are trying to get us to believe your interpretation of the scriptures, which in the end is all you have got. You are thinking too much of yourself, you have "A" interpretation, not "THE" interpretation of scripture.
You don't think we only talk to those we agree with do you? I consider the whole 'separated brethren' thing both arrogant and condescending.
So you just got finished disrespecting us immensely in post #30, saying that our doctrines and dogmas heretical, that we have nothing in common including Jesus, and then claiming that our most sacred sacrament is blasphemy, and you call us arrogant? Please.

We evangelize the lost. I thought you would have figured out the purpose of this website by now.
There's your arrogance again, this time with some condescending thrown in. So tell us, what is your record in conversions of Catholics to one of your sects? How many? One? Three? Ten? One hundred? None perhaps? Face it, if you are representative of the "True" Christian faith, I surely would not want to be a Christian.
 
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Mysterium Fidei

Active member
Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum: “The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as ”outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium."
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
No it does not.

I'm not trying to lasso anyone into anything. I seek to defend the faith against the many false claims against us. While I would be glad to see you accept the truth of the Catholic faith (especially Jesus's Real Presence in the holy Eucharist) that is something that can only happen by your free will.


All you show us is that you have a different interpretation of those things that are in the bible. What we believe is in there, you just refuse to see it. You have your own interpretation that's all, and it's one that never existed for centuries.


You are trying to get us to believe your interpretation of the scriptures, which in the end is all you have got. You are thinking too much of yourself, you have "A" interpretation, not "THE" interpretation of scripture.

So you just got finished disrespecting us immensely in post #30, saying that our doctrines and dogmas heretical, that we have nothing in common including Jesus, and then claiming that our most sacred sacrament is blasphemy, and you call us arrogant? Please.


There's your arrogance again, this time with some condescending thrown in. So tell us, what is your record in conversions of Catholics to one of your sects? How many? One? Three? Ten? One hundred? None perhaps? Face it, if you are representative of the "True" Christian faith, I surely would not want to be a Christian.
I'm not trying to lasso anyone into anything.

Notice its catholics calling us brethern, not the other way around. So ya, youre trying to lump us into your religion. No thanks

What we believe is in there,

Funny, whenever we ask for specifics like i did the other day, the catholic responded 'make a thread'. Instead of just answering the question and show us one verse its hey make a thread. All the catholic has are vague references to major doctrines and dogmas. "Feed my sheep" is supposed to be a proof text for the papacy? The highest office in christendom? God saw fit to write about deacons and list their qualifications but not the highest infallible office in the land? We're supposed to believe this huh? I mean unless you have a better proof text? We all know about Matt 16, John 21, a list here a list there. None of which point us to an office of the papacy. And its not just about interpretation. There simply is no substance to the doctrine. Thats just one.

So you just got finished disrespecting us immensely

Something catholics do daily here. I didn't call anyone anything. There was nothing derogatory in my comments. It was simply a theological truth. The jesus in your eucharist is a false christ and a false god. Thats not being mean, its a truth catholics need to embrase before they leave this world.

saying that our doctrines and dogmas heretical

When they are binding on the person for their salvation, ya.

that we have nothing in common including Jesus,

What fellowship has light with darkness? Thats Paul btw, not me. And no, we do not consider the wafers, consecrated or not to be jesus let alone god. And certainly not something we would worship as such.

and then claiming that our most sacred sacrament is blasphemy

Question: Does God condone idol worship? Leaving aside a moment the rc eucharist, in general does God or doesn't He condone idolatry? If He does not condone it then it should be exposed whenever its found right? Isn't that the job of the faithful believer to expose false teaching and defend the faith? Eph 5:11
 

Mysterium Fidei

Active member
No it does not.

I'm not trying to lasso anyone into anything. I seek to defend the faith against the many false claims against us. While I would be glad to see you accept the truth of the Catholic faith (especially Jesus's Real Presence in the holy Eucharist) that is something that can only happen by your free will.


All you show us is that you have a different interpretation of those things that are in the bible. What we believe is in there, you just refuse to see it. You have your own interpretation that's all, and it's one that never existed for centuries.


You are trying to get us to believe your interpretation of the scriptures, which in the end is all you have got. You are thinking too much of yourself, you have "A" interpretation, not "THE" interpretation of scripture.

So you just got finished disrespecting us immensely in post #30, saying that our doctrines and dogmas heretical, that we have nothing in common including Jesus, and then claiming that our most sacred sacrament is blasphemy, and you call us arrogant? Please.


There's your arrogance again, this time with some condescending thrown in. So tell us, what is your record in conversions of Catholics to one of your sects? How many? One? Three? Ten? One hundred? None perhaps? Face it, if you are representative of the "True" Christian faith, I surely would not want to be a Christian.
So much for your "separated brethren." Post # 47

Protestants are splintered into multitudes of contradicting sects, with contradicting doctrines, worship, morals, disciplines, and governments. There is no unity of faith among them. The ONLY thing they are united in and agree upon with each other is their absolute hatred for the Catholic Church and the Catholic Faith.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
1 Peter 3 Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you, 16 yet do it with gentleness and respect.

The problem is that if a lost soul reads scripture and sees this identification of what an evangeliser is but can't recognise that in them, the 'evangeliser' will be ineffective and maybe worse, drives others off Christ. To be effective we have to be on the same page about what 'gentleness and respect' actually mean to the 'lost' person.
In my time here i've been gentle way more than not. Paul is the one that said we should be gentile. Yet he wasn't always mister Rogers either was he? In Acts 14 he tells people to turn from their vain things. The word vain means; empty or worthless. If you were in that crowd how would have you responded to Pauls accusation? Having the benefit of hindsight i'm guessing you wouldn't have been too harsh huh? He saw idolatry and he called it out. We do too. We can do that AND be gentile at the same time. People need Jesus and we don't need to sugar coat the gospel. Its the Holy Spirit that convicts. Its our job to tell the truth.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
So much for your "separated brethren." Post # 47

Protestants are splintered into multitudes of contradicting sects, with contradicting doctrines, worship, morals, disciplines, and governments. There is no unity of faith among them. The ONLY thing they are united in and agree upon with each other is their absolute hatred for the Catholic Church and the Catholic Faith.
You forgot;

The gospel
Jesus
The Holy Spirit in our lives
Gods inspired word as our highest authority...

Heck you think YOURE not divided Mr. Sedevacantist. Who only shows up here to brow beat post vat 2 catholics.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
So much for your "separated brethren." Post # 47

Protestants are splintered into multitudes of contradicting sects, with contradicting doctrines, worship, morals, disciplines, and governments. There is no unity of faith among them. The ONLY thing they are united in and agree upon with each other is their absolute hatred for the Catholic Church and the Catholic Faith.
As Christ points out, wide is the road to destruction and many there by who find it while the narrow road will never need to be widened for very few there be who find it. Protestants can splinter into individual groups of one per Protestant denomination and it doesn't negate the fact that these labels mean nothing to those who actually find the Way. They're just pointless labels to the new creation. However, a universal church is one that can only be synonymous with Broadway.
 

mica

Well-known member
So much for your "separated brethren." Post # 47

Protestants are splintered into multitudes of contradicting sects, with contradicting doctrines, worship, morals, disciplines, and governments. There is no unity of faith among them.
thx for telling us how little you know about protestants.

The ONLY thing they are united in and agree upon with each other is their absolute hatred for the Catholic Church and the Catholic Faith.
do you have a good reason why believers shouldn't hate a false religion, one that is contrary to God's word?
 

Stella1000

Well-known member
In my time here i've been gentle way more than not. Paul is the one that said we should be gentile. Yet he wasn't always mister Rogers either was he? In Acts 14 he tells people to turn from their vain things. The word vain means; empty or worthless. If you were in that crowd how would have you responded to Pauls accusation? Having the benefit of hindsight i'm guessing you wouldn't have been too harsh huh? He saw idolatry and he called it out. We do too. We can do that AND be gentile at the same time. People need Jesus and we don't need to sugar coat the gospel. Its the Holy Spirit that convicts. Its our job to tell the truth.
I'm guessing it must come down to interpretation. Gentle or gentile, I don't experience those qualities here. I'm defending my lifelong faith but not being drawn out by the words printed here. We have very different interpretations of Christian evangelisation.
 

Misfit

Well-known member
Notice its catholics calling us brethern, not the other way around. So ya, youre trying to lump us into your religion. No thanks
We do that because you also believe in Jesus, and we recognize that reality. We are the original believers; you are the ones who have separated yourselves into a myriad of sects which now reject orthodox Christian beliefs.

None of which point us to an office of the papacy. And its not just about interpretation. There simply is no substance to the doctrine.
It's just how the Christian Church evolved. I'm sorry you don't like that it happened that way, but it is what it is.

There was nothing derogatory in my comments. It was simply a theological truth. The jesus in your eucharist is a false christ and a false god. Thats not being mean, its a truth catholics need to embrase before they leave this world.
No, that is what YOU have come up with in YOUR theological truth. Such an idea never existed for centuries until the men whom you believe and follow came along. Once again, it's back to your particular biblical interpretation.

And no, we do not consider the wafers, consecrated or not to be jesus let alone god. And certainly not something we would worship as such.
A belief brought to you by the ideas of men which you embrace, and nothing but an abomination before God if you ask me. But hey, one day we will all find out for sure, won't we? If we are right, you folks will have some serious explaining to do on Judgement Day for your disbelief and the outright blaspheming of the Holy Spirit by your constant demeaning of the Holy Eucharist (Yes, the Holy Spirit is deeply involved here). Now if you are right and we are wrong, all orthodox believers will go straight to hell for idolatry.
 

A new day

Well-known member
I'm guessing it must come down to interpretation. Gentle or gentile,
gentile.... jen - tile

The term Gentile doesn’t really describe who someone is, but rather who they are not – a Jew. A Gentile is one belonging to any nation or people group other than the Jewish people group.

gen - tle ...... having or showing a mild, kind, or tender temperament or character. Moderate in action, effect, or degree; not harsh or severe.
 
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dingoling.

Well-known member
All you have done is set up a basis of doctrines, history, ECF, liturgies, sacramentaries; but you ignored the following:
Where does God's absolute authority establish 'apostolic succession'? nowhere.
Where does God's absolute authority establish 'two sinless mediators and advocates'? nowhere.
Where does God's absolute authority establish 'three legged stool of equal authority'? nowhere.
Where does God’s absolute authority establish which writings of the nt are his inspired word? nowhere.
 
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Nondenom40

Well-known member
I'm guessing it must come down to interpretation. Gentle or gentile, I don't experience those qualities here. I'm defending my lifelong faith but not being drawn out by the words printed here. We have very different interpretations of Christian evangelisation.
Paul is the one that said we should be gentile.

That was a misspelling.

We have very different interpretations of Christian evangelisation.

Yes we do. Catholics want us to join a church. We want to see people in heaven. Very different indeed.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
We do that because you also believe in Jesus, and we recognize that reality. We are the original believers; you are the ones who have separated yourselves into a myriad of sects which now reject orthodox Christian beliefs.


It's just how the Christian Church evolved. I'm sorry you don't like that it happened that way, but it is what it is.


No, that is what YOU have come up with in YOUR theological truth. Such an idea never existed for centuries until the men whom you believe and follow came along. Once again, it's back to your particular biblical interpretation.


A belief brought to you by the ideas of men which you embrace, and nothing but an abomination before God if you ask me. But hey, one day we will all find out for sure, won't we? If we are right, you folks will have some serious explaining to do on Judgement Day for your disbelief and the outright blaspheming of the Holy Spirit by your constant demeaning of the Holy Eucharist (Yes, the Holy Spirit is deeply involved here). Now if you are right and we are wrong, all orthodox believers will go straight to hell for idolatry.
We do that because you also believe in Jesus, and we recognize that reality. We are the original believers;

Rhetoric. There is no rcc in the n.t. None of your distinct doctrines and dogmas are in it. If there were you'd have no problem listing very clear verses for those doctrines and dogmas. Catholics never do because they don't exist.

It's just how the Christian Church evolved.

So the papacy has to be defended as something that 'evolved' yet the lowly deacon is right there in black and white. Pardon me if i don't believe you.

No, that is what YOU have come up with in YOUR theological truth. Such an idea never existed for centuries until the men whom you believe and follow came along.

A. No its not my theological truth. I can't make up a theological truth thats not in scripture. Although the rcc excels at that very thing.
B. I don't 'believe' in men but scripture and God who inspired it.
C. No one in the n.t. thought bread was God or that they were eating God. Or that they had to eat God to 'have life.'

A belief brought to you by the ideas of men which you embrace, and nothing but an abomination before God if you ask me.

No one in the n.t. consecrated bread and thought it was literally Jesus. No one thought that bread was now God. No one worshiped bread as God. What YOU embrace is a later development.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
No one in the n.t. consecrated bread and thought it was literally Jesus. No one thought that bread was now God. No one worshiped bread as God. What YOU embrace is a later development.
Paul believed.

1Cor 11:
23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.


27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

How can a mere symbol have the effect above?
 
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