Will "unified" Catholics be backing Mother Miriam?

pilgrim

Well-known member
I'd ask for proof but all you'll say is 'we aren't sola scriptura christians.' You have no proof because you make it up as you go. No one believes you.
I don't make up anything. The Church, the pillar and foundation of the truth, teaches it.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
The Church preceded the writing of the New Testament.
I see, so mary got saved before Jesus went to the cross and God didn't think any of that was worthy of being included in the bible? We know about marys pregnancy, Joe was gonna put her away, her convo with Gabriel. But her salvation prior to the cross doesn't rise to the occasion? Okay, where is the official teaching from your church on marys pre-crucifixion salvation? And when exactly did that happen? Before Jesus was born? After? Sometime before His death? Since the cross is the atoning sacrifice, how exactly were her sins atoned for? Oh ya, she doesn't have any of those silly sins so theres nothing to atone for. So she saved herself. Sinless people don't need a savior. Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost; Luke 19:10. Mary isn't included in that. She was never lost according to you people so Jesus didn't die for her. Show us your churches infallible teaching on that. Since youre not a sola scriptura christian.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
I see, so mary got saved before Jesus went to the cross and God didn't think any of that was worthy of being included in the bible? We know about marys pregnancy, Joe was gonna put her away, her convo with Gabriel. But her salvation prior to the cross doesn't rise to the occasion? Okay, where is the official teaching from your church on marys pre-crucifixion salvation? And when exactly did that happen? Before Jesus was born? After? Sometime before His death? Since the cross is the atoning sacrifice, how exactly were her sins atoned for? Oh ya, she doesn't have any of those silly sins so theres nothing to atone for. So she saved herself. Sinless people don't need a savior. Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost; Luke 19:10. Mary isn't included in that. She was never lost according to you people so Jesus didn't die for her. Show us your churches infallible teaching on that. Since youre not a sola scriptura christian.
Should Jesus have consulted you first before it was written?
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
I see, so mary got saved before Jesus went to the cross and God didn't think any of that was worthy of being included in the bible? We know about marys pregnancy, Joe was gonna put her away, her convo with Gabriel. But her salvation prior to the cross doesn't rise to the occasion? Okay, where is the official teaching from your church on marys pre-crucifixion salvation? And when exactly did that happen? Before Jesus was born? After? Sometime before His death? Since the cross is the atoning sacrifice, how exactly were her sins atoned for? Oh ya, she doesn't have any of those silly sins so theres nothing to atone for. So she saved herself. Sinless people don't need a savior. Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost; Luke 19:10. Mary isn't included in that. She was never lost according to you people so Jesus didn't die for her. Show us your churches infallible teaching on that. Since youre not a sola scriptura christian.
This is why the Church is a teaching Church. See how Scripture is misused. You Protestants have no problem with Jesus saying to Zacchaeus that salvation had come to his house before He died on the Cross. But the thought That Jesus might do the same for His own mother, whom Our Lord was obligated by law - His own- to honor her, you can't seem to fathom. Every time you make Mary look bad, you forget that it reflects poorly, one way or another, on her Son.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
This is why the Church is a teaching Church. See how Scripture is misused. You Protestants have no problem with Jesus saying to Zacchaeus that salvation had come to his house before He died on the Cross. But the thought That Jesus might do the same for His own mother, whom Our Lord was obligated by law - His own- to honor her, you can't seem to fathom. Every time you make Mary look bad, you forget that it reflects poorly, one way or another, on her Son.
Just us? Isn't that in scripture? And no we don't have a problem with that. Wanna know why?

BECAUSE ITS IN THE BIBLE!!!

Luke 19
9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, since he also is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Now, if you would indulge us and post the same exact verse for marys salvation you would have a point.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
Just us? Isn't that in scripture? And no we don't have a problem with that. Wanna know why?

BECAUSE ITS IN THE BIBLE!!!

Luke 19
9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, since he also is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Now, if you would indulge us and post the same exact verse for marys salvation you would have a point.
So is "Honor your father and mother."

Tell me why Jesus would be handing out salvation to people He came across but not His own mother. How was their faith greater than hers?

Luke 1:43 And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”

My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant.
For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed;
49 for he who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.

50 And his mercy is for those who fear him
from generation to generation.
51 He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;
52 he has brought down the mighty from their thrones
and exalted those of humble estate;
53 he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty.
54 He has helped his servant Israel,
in remembrance of his mercy,
55 as he spoke to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his offspring forever.”
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
So is "Honor your father and mother."

Tell me why Jesus would be handing out salvation to people He came across but not His own mother. How was their faith greater than hers?

Luke 1:43 And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”

My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant.
For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed;
49 for he who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.

50 And his mercy is for those who fear him
from generation to generation.
51 He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;
52 he has brought down the mighty from their thrones
and exalted those of humble estate;
53 he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty.
54 He has helped his servant Israel,
in remembrance of his mercy,
55 as he spoke to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his offspring forever.”
Tell me why Jesus would be handing out salvation to people He came across but not His own mother.

So all you have is an appeal to emotion? LOL. What a bankrupt theology.

And you people always throw out 'honor your mother and father' like God is bound to the will of the rcc to assume mary, make her sinless, save her before any other....yada yada. The only problem is, there isn't the first shred of scripture to back up any of it. None. If God has to honor mary, why not marys mother? And her mother, and her mother? Inconsistent as always.
 

mica

Well-known member
This is why the Church is a teaching Church. See how Scripture is misused. You Protestants have no problem with Jesus saying to Zacchaeus that salvation had come to his house before He died on the Cross. But the thought That Jesus might do the same for His own mother, whom Our Lord was obligated by law - His own- to honor her, you can't seem to fathom. Every time you make Mary look bad, you forget that it reflects poorly, one way or another, on her Son.
the rcc does claim to be a teaching 'church' and yes it certainly does show (teach) how it misuses scripture.
 

A new day

Well-known member
This is why the Church is a teaching Church. See how Scripture is misused. You Protestants have no problem with Jesus saying to Zacchaeus that salvation had come to his house before He died on the Cross. But the thought That Jesus might do the same for His own mother, whom Our Lord was obligated by law - His own- to honor her, you can't seem to fathom. Every time you make Mary look bad, you forget that it reflects poorly, one way or another, on her Son.
What I said was that when mary and Jesus' brothers went to take him away from the crowd, He did NOT go outside to them. Instead He said,
Scripture says VERBATIM

Matthew 12:46-50
While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

As for zaccharaeus, receiving salvation.

Luke 19:1-10
Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly. 7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.” 8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house,

The above is from Scripture, verbatim-- all there in black and white. The Rc's claims to give us the bible, but then you come back and say... no it doesn't say that... Read it for yourself.
 

A new day

Well-known member
So He could look forward to His Passion and Death and apply those merits in advance.
Great news! This is exactly what is said about Mary. Its even said about the good angels that preserved them in grace at the time of the fall of the angels.

I was discussing Jesus with you, and you had to change the topic to mary. And kept trying to keep it all about mary. In the quote above you couldn't contain yourself about mary and angels. Your very giddy about mary. And then wonder why non-rc's think All Rc's worship mary. In this, even the muslim's think Rc's worship mary.
 

mica

Well-known member
pilgrim said:
This is why the Church is a teaching Church. See how Scripture is misused. You Protestants have no problem with Jesus saying to Zacchaeus that salvation had come to his house before He died on the Cross. But the thought That Jesus might do the same for His own mother, whom Our Lord was obligated by law - His own- to honor her, you can't seem to fathom.
what we don't do is honor her over Him. that's what catholics do. no believer here has ever said or implied He didn't honor her in her rightful place - as His earthly mother.

catholics put her in a position that she wasn't in - that wasn't given to her by God.

Every time you make Mary look bad, you forget that it reflects poorly, one way or another, on her Son.
iow, you think the position given to her by God Himself is bad? take that up with God since you think He was wrong in the position He did give her.

catholics put Mary above Christ. that isn't what Christians do. scripture nowhere puts her above Him, makes her a goddess or queen or gives those who are His access to Him thru her.
 

Misfit

Well-known member
it is not the Lord's supper that you eat.
Yes.

What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in?
They were coming to the Lords Supper and eating and drinking like it was just another meal. It most certainly is not.

Its not a normal meal, it has significance.
You betcha! It's the real deal, Jesus Christ Himself, truly present in the most holy of memorials. The Memorial with the person being memorialized right there in it., His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Not a nothingburger like you claim, no sir. Now, why is that so? Because of the following: “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.” (1 Cor 11:29).

What? Not discerning what? That's right, the Lords Body. You can't twist those words into a pretzel my friend, nope. They mean exactly what they say and that is why St. Paul wrote them down for all eternity.

My point stands.
It folds like a cheap suitcase.

No one thought they were eating God.
See 1 Cor 11:29.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
What I said was that when mary and Jesus' brothers went to take him away from the crowd, He did NOT go outside to them. Instead He said,
Scripture says VERBATIM

Matthew 12:46-50
While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”



The above is from Scripture, verbatim-- all there in black and white. The Rc's claims to give us the bible, but then you come back and say... no it doesn't say that... Read it for yourself.
The above is from Scripture, verbatim-- all there in black and white. The Rc's claims to give us the bible, but then you come back and say... no it doesn't say that... Read it for yourself.
Especially those Roman Catholics who believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, use these Scripture passages to argue that "brothers" here means "cousins." Truth be had that if the author of Matthew had wished to say "cousin,' there was a better Greek word he could have used instead.

While His words here do not deny the value of blood relationships, they place greater worth on spiritual kinship, and on submission to the will of God.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
We do that because you also believe in Jesus, and we recognize that reality. We are the original believers; you are the ones who have separated yourselves into a myriad of sects which now reject orthodox Christian beliefs.


It's just how the Christian Church evolved. I'm sorry you don't like that it happened that way, but it is what it is.


No, that is what YOU have come up with in YOUR theological truth. Such an idea never existed for centuries until the men whom you believe and follow came along. Once again, it's back to your particular biblical interpretation.


A belief brought to you by the ideas of men which you embrace, and nothing but an abomination before God if you ask me. But hey, one day we will all find out for sure, won't we? If we are right, you folks will have some serious explaining to do on Judgement Day for your disbelief and the outright blaspheming of the Holy Spirit by your constant demeaning of the Holy Eucharist (Yes, the Holy Spirit is deeply involved here). Now if you are right and we are wrong, all orthodox believers will go straight to hell for idolatry.
The truth is the RCC began between 325 and 350 AD when a Roman emperor threw water on his troops and declared them Christian. What really happen was pagan Rome brought all her idolatry into the cult they started named the Roman Catholic Church, . Jesus said do this in remembrance of me concerning the Lord’s supper. You do understand that God forbid the drinking of blood right ? The Holy Spirit bears witness of God’s word to the grace provided by Jesus’life, death, burial,and resurrection.
 
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