Will "unified" Catholics be backing Mother Miriam?

leonard03782

Well-known member
So much for your "separated brethren." Post # 47

Protestants are splintered into multitudes of contradicting sects, with contradicting doctrines, worship, morals, disciplines, and governments. There is no unity of faith among them. The ONLY thing they are united in and agree upon with each other is their absolute hatred for the Catholic Church and the Catholic Faith.
Ok people, let's all gather 'round and hold a pity party for the rc's on CARM because they are being picked on.
 

Nondenom40

Super Member
Yes.


They were coming to the Lords Supper and eating and drinking like it was just another meal. It most certainly is not.


You betcha! It's the real deal, Jesus Christ Himself, truly present in the most holy of memorials. The Memorial with the person being memorialized right there in it., His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. Not a nothingburger like you claim, no sir. Now, why is that so? Because of the following: “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.” (1 Cor 11:29).

What? Not discerning what? That's right, the Lords Body. You can't twist those words into a pretzel my friend, nope. They mean exactly what they say and that is why St. Paul wrote them down for all eternity.


It folds like a cheap suitcase.


See 1 Cor 11:29.
You dismissed most of my post, why? You cherry picked certain things to focus on and came to a conclusion that suits you. Thats catholicism folks. Bend facts to make themselves look better. A 'nothingburger'? No one thought they were eating god. You just lost any credibility you thought you had. Christ is present where two or three are gathered together. I seem to remember that verse.
 

Misfit

Active member
You dismissed most of my post, why? You cherry picked certain things to focus on and came to a conclusion that suits you. Thats catholicism folks. Bend facts to make themselves look better. A 'nothingburger'? No one thought they were eating god. You just lost any credibility you thought you had. Christ is present where two or three are gathered together. I seem to remember that verse.
Gee, I thought I hit the nail on the head. Oh man, you're no fun!
 

Misfit

Active member
But he fact remains, your "College of Cardinals" elected a "Ringer" this time around (and not for the first time either, as YOUR OWN HISTORY attests).
At least the two previous ones were very good. One an intellectual, and one a man of the people.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Paul believed.

1Cor 11:
23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.


27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

How can a mere symbol have the effect above?
Symbols are not merely symbols. A Symbol is a substitution just like Christ is substituted to pay the penalty for our sins. When Paul quotes Christ, he uses the figure Metaphor which should never be conflated with the figure Symbol. Metaphor denotes representation rather than substitution.

We know that he's using the figure Metaphor due to the fact that when the figure is used in the Greek the Articles do not agree in gender with the nouns they modify. It is an intentional deviation from the laws of the Greek language.

The bread represents the fact that it is Christ in them through his self sacrifice they are sustained.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
So all you have is an appeal to emotion? LOL. What a bankrupt theology.

And you people always throw out 'honor your mother and father' like God is bound to the will of the rcc to assume mary, make her sinless, save her before any other....yada yada. The only problem is, there isn't the first shred of scripture to back up any of it. None. If God has to honor mary, why not marys mother? And her mother, and her mother? Inconsistent as alway
So Jesus brings salvation to Zacchaeus' house in 5 minutes but not to His own house where He lived 30 years?

:rolleyes:

You must think that He only ever spoke to His mother when He was 12, at the wedding feast and on the Cross because that is all that is recorded in Scripture. And 2 of those times were "rebukes", they say.

The Protestant version of Jesus sounds like a surly teenager.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
Matthew 12:46-50
While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
So, did Jesus publicly dishonor His mother? Isn't that what you are implying? If not, then please tell me what Jesus meant.
If so, then your savior broke the 4th commandment and needed a savior as well.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
Symbols are not merely symbols. A Symbol is a substitution just like Christ is substituted to pay the penalty for our sins. When Paul quotes Christ, he uses the figure Metaphor which should never be conflated with the figure Symbol. Metaphor denotes representation rather than substitution.

We know that he's using the figure Metaphor due to the fact that when the figure is used in the Greek the Articles do not agree in gender with the nouns they modify. It is an intentional deviation from the laws of the Greek language.

The bread represents the fact that it is Christ in them through his self sacrifice they are sustained.
Or maybe they do agree because He spoke literally, making the Greek grammar correct.
The Holy Spirit doesn't make mistakes.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Or maybe they do agree
They don't. They're intentionally switched.
because He spoke literally, making the Greek grammar correct.
False. it doesn't change the fact that the Articles don't agree with the genders of the nouns which they're modify. The Greek grammar is incorrect regardless of whether the text is literal or figurative. This is how the educated reader knows they're looking at a figure to begin with.

The pronoun, "this" (touto), is neuter, and is thus made to agree with "body" (swma), which is neuter, and not with bread (aptos, artos), which is masculine. This is always the case in Metaphors. Here are a few other examples to illustrate.

In Zech. 5:8, "This is wickedness." Here, "this" (fem.) does not agree with "ephah" (to which it refers), which is neuter, but with "wickedness, " which is feminine.

In Zech. 5:3, "This is the curse." "This" (fem.) agrees with "curse", which is feminine, and not with "flying roll", which is neuter, (to which it refers).

In Matt.13:38, "The good seed are the children of the kingdom." Here, "these" (masc.) agrees with "children of the kingdom" (masc.), and not with seed, which is neuter.

What this is showing is that in a Metaphor, the two nouns (or pronoun and noun) are always literal, and that the figure lies only in the verb.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
They don't. They're intentionally switched.

False. it doesn't change the fact that the Articles don't agree with the genders of the nouns which they're modify. The Greek grammar is incorrect regardless of whether the text is literal or figurative. This is how the educated reader knows they're looking at a figure to begin with.

The pronoun, "this" (touto), is neuter, and is thus made to agree with "body" (swma), which is neuter, and not with bread (aptos, artos), which is masculine. This is always the case in Metaphors. Here are a few other examples to illustrate.

In Zech. 5:8, "This is wickedness." Here, "this" (fem.) does not agree with "ephah" (to which it refers), which is neuter, but with "wickedness, " which is feminine.

In Zech. 5:3, "This is the curse." "This" (fem.) agrees with "curse", which is feminine, and not with "flying roll", which is neuter, (to which it refers).

In Matt.13:38, "The good seed are the children of the kingdom." Here, "these" (masc.) agrees with "children of the kingdom" (masc.), and not with seed, which is neuter.

What this is showing is that in a Metaphor, the two nouns (or pronoun and noun) are always literal, and that the figure lies only in the verb.
The Church has always understood this to be literal from the beginning, and the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
The Church has always understood this to be literal
No one has forgotten the RCC's position. Repeating the church's claim doesn't negate the fact that the grammar is written incorrect intentionally. The RCC has no explanation for this whatsoever.

I doubt there is anyone in the history of the RCC who has an explanation.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
No one has forgotten the RCC's position. Repeating the church's claim doesn't negate the fact that the grammar is written incorrect intentionally. The RCC has no explanation for this whatsoever.

I doubt there is anyone in the history of the RCC who has an explanation.
I thought the Bible is inerrant.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
So, did Jesus publicly dishonor His mother? Isn't that what you are implying? If not, then please tell me what Jesus meant.
If so, then your savior broke the 4th commandment and needed a savior as well.
Since Mary and his half-siblings were sure Jesus had gone off His rocker, and needed to be brought home and HIDDEN from the public view, they were acting to fulfill satan's agenda, and needed correction.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
Since Mary and his half-siblings were sure Jesus had gone off His rocker, and needed to be brought home and HIDDEN from the public view, they were acting to fulfill satan's agenda, and needed correction.
:oops:
So now Mary was "acting to fulfill satans agenda." wow
You're the one off the rocker, Bob.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
I thought the Bible is inerrant.
The only explanation that the RCC can come up with is that the gospel writer goofed. In other words, it was an intentional deviation from the laws of language at all. It was a mistake. A scribal error.

There is no error when the writer does it intentionally to spotlight that they're employing the figure Metaphor to emphasize the reality of Christ's self-sacrificial life within the new creation.
 

A new day

Well-known member
So, did Jesus publicly dishonor His mother? Isn't that what you are implying? If not, then please tell me what Jesus meant.
If so, then your savior broke the 4th commandment and needed a savior as well.

Is that what you think? Verse 50 says,

Matthew 12:50
"For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

In Luke 11:27-28
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!” 28 But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”


Jesus is saying, that it is far greater to hear the gospel message, and embrace who He is, and believe on Him, and in Him, and have a heart that that is conformed to Him and fully relies on Him by FAITH. Jesus was pointing out that this is is far greater than to be related to Him in the flesh.

Both zacchaeus and the tax collector in Jesus' parable believed who Jesus was, and relied on His mercy and grace. They understood that they were sinners, and in need of God's UNMERITED grace. You were too anxious to point me into the direction of Mary and make the conversion all about her instead of about Jesus.
 
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