Without Jesus

treeplanter

Well-known member
So nobody, eh? You made it up.
Thread titled:
Atheism And Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Oblivion
by JAG

"On Humans-Cease-To-Exist Atheism there is no ultimate difference
in the end of a human being and a bug or a roach, in that both have the
same ultimate destiny, namely oblivion as in ceasing to exist."

"On Humans-Cease-To-Exist Atheism there is no ultimate difference
in the end of a human being and a house plant, in that both have the
same ultimate destiny, namely oblivion as in ceasing to exist."

"Question for Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Atheists: How does it make
you feel to believe that you have no more ultimate worth and value
than a house plant and a Bug and a Roach?"

"Again, that which ceases to exist has no ultimate worth and value."


In your face, stigs!

A Christian claiming that life is meaningless without faith in Jesus Christ and the eternal life that He promises...
 
Same with nihilists and hedonists. But you aren't so critical of nihilists and hedonists? It's an ideological fixation for you, the Christian thing, isn't it?
I can't speak for the OP, but the reason I'm less critical of nihilists and hedonists is that they're not trying to force 10 year old incest victims to risk their lives to carry their rapist's spawn to term. The relentless insistence of crazed fundamentalists to shove their filthy "morality" down the throats of innocent children demands a response.
 

Semmelweis Reflex

Active member
That's news to me...

Explain, please

Militant fundamentalist atheists respond emotionally by politicizing issues and so become unreasonable.

Like this . . . .

I can't speak for the OP, but the reason I'm less critical of nihilists and hedonists is that they're not trying to force 10 year old incest victims to risk their lives to carry their rapist's spawn to term. The relentless insistence of crazed fundamentalists to shove their filthy "morality" down the throats of innocent children demands a response.

The circumstances introduced by KC can't possibly have a positive or pleasant outcome. They are tragic. To suggest that nihilists and hedonists would or wouldn't impose their beliefs would be baseless and unreasonable but that's necessary as an emotional objection to Christianity by someone, an atheist, who would likely impose their own beliefs if the circumstances were presented before them just as the Christians being criticized unfairly would. Fortunately the circumstances are extremely rare, but that doesn't matter from the unreasonable and hypocritical objector. Nor to the child and family having been placed in such a tragic turn of events.

The reasonable thing to do would be to examine the facts in the rare instances in which the unfortunate circumstances did arise. Legally, in the country where I live, the decision would be made by the parent of the child. If asked, I would personally advise the parents to at least take into account the child's informed consent. A child of that age, especially under those circumstances, could be easily mislead by their parents, no matter what their beliefs would dictate. Still, it's the parents legal responsibility and again, I wouldn't personally feel at all compelled to judge their decision no matter what it may be.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Everyone adheres to an illusory selective salvation. The only real difference between modern day atheists and Christians is the acknowledgement of a vague god concept. The atheists have the same concept but they don't acknowledge it.
That's an odd (and incorrect) declaration. Atheists consciously acknowledge the existence of many, many god concepts. Most are supplied by theists, some are even our own as we contemplate the general "stuff" of life. Whether you are an atheist or not, god concepts are part of the socio-anthro fabric. We "believe" and "acknowledge" that they exist, and maybe deep down even believe in some kind of cobbled Frankenstein's bride of one far removed from orthodoxy.

We just throw darts at them all, even our own, because they all eventually fail reality checks - unless you tack on an afterlife. Once you do that, what does not make sense here is made to resolve there in that mushy heaven that somehow wraps itself around and scrubs all injustice and evil. There is no reality check possible for heaven so you get to believe whatever the hell you want to in that feedback void.

That's how the Judeo-christian afterlife got its start. Jews didn't believe in an afterlife of any reward until this world started thumping on their self proclaimed "chosen-ness". Their solution - a different world, a new kingdom, where God did reign supreme and their righteousness would be rewarded.


It's a manufactured paradigm. The illusion of reality we create. The struggle of humanity? The enemy of the state is the people. The struggle is the dragon the people feed. Stages of "development" represented by the dominant, in order of appearance - religion, politics, consumerism, and science - must have been or are beneficial to the dominant hierarchies.
Like a hunting dog bred and trained to go mad for the benefit of it's master. I figured that out by the time I was about 6 or 7 years old. What has always fascinated me about people is that they seem oblivious to this self-evident reality and react to it by opposing it in the guise of manufacturing some quasi alternative. The illusion that the dragon should be trained or fought. What has always fascinated me about what I learned of the Bible is that it's solution differs in that the dragon (in this case not Satan, but his creation, the world) must be starved rather than trained or fought. That's the difference, as I see the proffered solutions, between God and man.
What gets us by becomes dominant. Religion, one of the most ancient on your list, was politics and science and was actually consumerism too where lambs, sacrifices, kosher, and halal were marketed. So the term religion is redundant in your list. It's a macro category that contains the real stuff underneath it (politics, science, consumerism). Those are the only things that really matter and exist. The rest is labeling. You can create many quasi alternative labels, but it will boil down to those underneath.
Sub-optimum? How is it sub-optimum? And what about the eternal state prior to death?
Referring to the lake of fire here. Not an optimum retirement plan.

I always though it odd that we get a personal eternity after death but experienced nothing of it before birth. What made anybody start thinking you future in that regard would be different from your past? That right there is stronger than ANY evidence one can produce for it.
That's parenting. Education. Watch out for the boogey man. What's the boogey man. Something we created to control you remotely.
Nah. You're missing the point. My parents were not within ear-shot when the evangelical pastor opened a store front in our neighborhood and put in a pool table and a foosball table and started grooming the neighborhood children that would drop by with tales of heaven and hell and where they were going.
Nuclear winter, survival of the fittest. The Bible doesn't teach that we or our immortal souls are literally eternally consciously tormented. In the 30 years I've been doing this "Christians" have gone from hellfire to the kinder and gentler lake of fire or separation from God. If they continue their education it will be the atheists, not the "Christians" who cling doggedly to the theological eternal and conscious damnation. It's ideology. It doesn't really mean much of anything.
Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshall Applewhite? It becomes meaningful if one begins to believe it. Atheist will cling to the opposition of those beliefs so of course, in a sense, it is an embrace of the existence of those beliefs. This is not controversial.
That's odd. How is it scary?
I guess for many it isn't. Oblivion is a better deal than what you outline below. It's also better than perpetual consciousness too. What's wrong with an eternal "rest" like before I was born?
Because of the nonsense we're trained to believe. Edward Bernays. Gargle with this floor cleaner and be obsessed about daily bathing rituals we pulled out of our ass after 6,000 years. 4 out of 5 dermatologists or dentists recommend . . . why not 4 out of 10? Who pays them and how does their alleged recommendations benefit them. Inject this cow pus into your child's body. Don't ask questions. Don't look at disease since the dark ages from animals, take this vaccine of animal disease and don't pay any attention to what it spreads, just pony up some cash for the treatment of the symptoms - perpetually in the name of science. Just follow the science. Autism, dementia, Alzheimer's, juvenile diabetes, allergies, asthma, crohn's disease, cancer - gettin' better all the time. Proliferating. 10 out of 10 doctors recommend vaccination. Poison our air, food, water and medicine and someone's going to make some cash.
Don't worry.... that all goes away in heaven. The Jews figured that out early on.
What happened to art? What happened to music, film, freedom and democracy? What happened to God and what happened to science? We sold it out for a pile of cash. Take a bungee jump off this bridge or take a rocket ride into the void of space. [Expletive] morality, [expletive] mortality!
It's all still there.... makin' money too.
But that's just the optimist in me . . .



I've stated multiple reasons repeatedly. Jordan Peterson wrote: "You can only find out what you actually believe (rather than what you think you believe) by watching how you act. You simply don’t know what you believe, before that. You are too complex to understand yourself." My primary motive, as far as I can tell, is exploring alternate beliefs (mostly atheistic) to provide myself with objectivity. I can't do that as well on my own, though I'm pretty good at looking at multiple angles and possibilities. Feedback. Also I'm arrogant and opinionated.
What keeps you from extrapolating all that for us as well then?
That seems to me a low resolution image provided by a conjectural and biased paradigm.
Sometimes the low resolution gives you the truer form of a thing. The detailed resolution can be filled with "look over here, not there" distractions and false window dressings.
The Four Noble Truths. "When you find yourself attached, remember that letting go is not getting rid of or throwing away. Then I can pick it up again, see what time it is and lay it aside when necessary."
Yup. No need for Jesus there. But some do need the icon and the idolatry behind it for personal focus. That seems to be how we are made.
Really? Christianity's primary tenets have become transmogrified. That's the first problem with judging it. You can't judge it without acknowledging at least that obvious fact.
That's fine with me. So why would you oppose our opposition?
Satan and Adam were created "perfect" meaning having great potential. The goal had been reached by Satan and was examined by Adam with little reason to subvert it. So, either the psychological relief you suggest is a farce, and as presented it is or at the very least myopic. So is there the possibility of trouble "on the other side of damnation"? Well, there isn't any on that side of it, but any trouble that could arise, having been greatly minimized, would, I suppose, be dealt with quickly and accordingly. But that's anecdotal.
... as well as made up for the comfort of believing in some cosmic justice that theists can only dream about in the land we can't poke and prod.
It never does.
Nope. It doesn't.
Example of how that is relevant?
See above about Jones, Koresh, et...al...
 

Furion

Well-known member
I can't speak for the OP, but the reason I'm less critical of nihilists and hedonists is that they're not trying to force 10 year old incest victims to risk their lives to carry their rapist's spawn to term. The relentless insistence of crazed fundamentalists to shove their filthy "morality" down the throats of innocent children demands a response.
The hedonist rapes your mythical ten year old, the nihilist tells you it doesn't really matter rape is just a social construct, and you are angry at the christian trying to save the baby. LOL That sounds more like the King of Goofy.
 
The hedonist rapes your mythical ten year old, the nihilist tells you it doesn't really matter rape is just a social construct, and you are angry at the christian trying to save the baby. LOL That sounds more like the King of Goofy.
Save the zygote by killing the 10 year old and losing it anyway? And it's not mythical. Your refusal to take responsibility for the real consequences of your policy is disgusting.

 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
I always though it odd that we get a personal eternity after death but experienced nothing of it before birth. What made anybody start thinking you future in that regard would be different from your past?

Heh, so you think it odd that you don't get to experience something "personal" BEFORE you were even a person?
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
Yep

Just like I said you would, you're now ignoring the very same proof that you asked for....

I GOT my proof: "A Christian." That's all you could muster up. Why don't you start a post whining about how Heisman Trophy winners are known for cutting their wive's throats??
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
The hedonist rapes your mythical ten year old, the nihilist tells you it doesn't really matter rape is just a social construct, and you are angry at the christian trying to save the baby. LOL That sounds more like the King of Goofy.
Do you support the denial of that pregnant, raped ten-year-old's abortion?

Yes, or no?
 
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