wof and Greater Works
- Thread starter Tallen
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SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
How can anyone do greater works than Christ. This means in numbers. Pray for understanding.
Taking the Word as written, maybe?
John 14:12 [KJV] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Strong's Definition [of meizon (greater} ] : Irregular comparative of G3173; larger (literally or figuratively, specifically in age): - elder, greater (-est), more.
So, while "more" is valid, so is "greater".
--Rich
So, let me ask, are you saying this is not true? “I assure you: The one who believes in Me will also do the works that I do. And he will do even greater works than these, because I am going to the Father" (John 14:12)
Tallen
Well-known member
How in the world do you come to this from my question?
What greater works have you done?
Well, you will forgive me but your post that I have seen lately tend to appear to be more of a challenge to an argument rather than a discussion. Kind of like, "I am right, defend this"
I personally have done the same so far. Raised the dead, laid hands on cancer and other sicknesses and saw them healed. But I have seen others that I guess could fall into your challenge category. The Apostle Paul prayed over handkerchiefs and sent them out and people were healed. John Lake placed his hands on a pole for people in an African village to touch to be healed because he needed to move on but so many needing healing kept coming. I see Peter walking and people jumping into his shadow getting healed.
Then we can included the numerical definition of the word and that would be obvious based on the Church.
So it is true on both definitions.
Tallen
Well-known member
Huh!?! Now that's truly reading into things. Most of my posts are scriptures with no commentary. Just opportunity for the group to have discussions. In fact, I've been ignoring most posts that I know result in bickering.
You've raised the dead? Tell me about it.
Hmmm...
Context seems to indicate that Christ was including His miracles and telling His audience they will do greater things than He was doing.
Personally I have never done anything greater than He did. Seems to me He did the greatest work of all
How so?
Perhaps because there is no context is why it seems you are challenging. Maybe you add contextual content around it to elicit an honest discussion? Just a thought.
Sure, the short version: I friend of mine contacted me when I lived in Charleston SC. A teenager, around 14-15 was being transferred to MUSC, a very advanced hospital. The boy had collapsed some time ago due to some type of illness and had deteriorated to only machines were keeping him alive, including a trach that we breathing for him. The transfer was a last ditch effort to see if anyone could help him. But the doctors told the mother that the boy was gone and only the machines were keeping him alive.
My friend asked me to go pray for him. Me and a young man I was discipling went. We spoke with the mom, to which she confirmed the discussions with the doctor. I laid hands on the boy and told him he would to live and that he would not die, in the Name of Jesus. Gave the mother my number and left.
When I left, the Doctors returned and again wanted to disconnect him from the machines, that he was gone. To prove their point they unhooked his Trach. He stopped breathing, then he started breathing, the HE WOKE UP, completely healed. 🥳
The Greek μείζονα can have multiple meanings. In this case, both numerically and grandeur are applicable. Contextually, grandeur fits better. Not much different than the english rendition for "greater" can have multiple meaning.
Tallen
Well-known member
Two things come to mind.
1) you feel this was something greater than what Christ did?
2) I won't say this now.
You missed my point. I understood the meaning of the word..., I was asking you why you thought both definitions was true.
No, not the raising of the dead. Nor was my point that everything equals greater. There are some acts that by the means it was done can be considered greater. I gave examples of those, Paul, John Lake, Peter.
Because contextually fit. Both by harmony of the Scripture and definition.
Tallen
Well-known member
tyfyt
tbeachhead
Well-known member
No...
Two reasons...define greater in your own view. The term is polluted because it has become ridiculously subjective.
Second: I don't ever want to open the occasion for you to blaspheme. I've seen this too often here. Scoffers' risk is neglected...and high. Critics are not careful enough avoid the pitfalls Jesus warned us all of.
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
Nope. I want to remain humble.
How about using Paul's way? Many believe that when he wrote "I knew a man..." to the Corinthians, he was referring to himself. Otherwise, people will interpret (rightly or wrongly) your words as "Nope. I cannot provide any examples."
--Rich
tbeachhead
Well-known member
The history of this board is fraught with strife...beginning when we naively shared wonders we had seen...It's not a good idea to give folks a chance mock what they cannot grasp. Better to keep Christ first...and Him crucified. What other greater work can there be, but to keep peace where strife is sought?
Tallen
Well-known member
We have an oak among us little shrubs. The oak can look down upon all the little shrubs, superior in his estimation in every way, basking in its great opinion of itself and with the lowest opinion of the little shrubs he sees himself towering over. What a gigantic and magnificent oak he sees when he speaks of himself. 🙄😉
tbeachhead
Well-known member
@RiJoRi In case you needed an example...you get totally useless jibes whose sole purpose is to mock...and they pretend they will treat your testimony with respect. This is typically the best you'll get.
Yodas_Prodigy
Well-known member
That coming from the Guy I once documented having compared us to Roman Catholic Killers over 200 times...
tbeachhead
Well-known member
Still evangelastic, huh Joe? "Documented over 200 times?" You've taken lessons from the Adam Schiff school of overwhelming evidence. But this is another great example of a useless jibe. You misunderstood then, and proved it's your deliberate choice now.