wof and living 120 years
- Thread starter Tallen
- Start date
tbeachhead
Well-known member
No...but if you ever needed the measure of the prophet...this word will be fulfilled in around thirty-six years. If he dies before that, just imagine the useless threads we can enjoy!
Looking forward to every one.
For me, I'm pretty sure I'll be too busy to notice, thirty-six years from now. There is a King to serve, and truth to share.
Looking forward to every one.
For me, I'm pretty sure I'll be too busy to notice, thirty-six years from now. There is a King to serve, and truth to share.
tbeachhead
Well-known member
It’s been said through the ages that John the apostle is still alive. He penned John 11. I know a friend who recommended faith in that passage. He called the message “I don’t know.” Great message. The point was, at what point do you stop believing what is so clearly written? Few dare to preach that message.
BlessedAnomaly
Well-known member
Genesis 6
When humankind began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose. 3 So the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain in humankind indefinitely, since they are mortal. They will remain for 120 more years.”
Genesis 6:1-3 - NET
Pete says this is "clearly written.". I agree. The Naphalim took the daughters. God said "My spirit will not remain in humankind indefinitely." That was it.
120 years later God left. We've been alone ever since. It's clearly written.
😳
In verse 3 there is a "so that." This happened as a result of sin. What? A blessing of 120 years? No. The flood!! In 120 years.
God was simply starting the countdown in response to the sin of mankind.
Last edited:
Tallen
Well-known member
Agreed. This wasn't a blessing for wof to live 120 years... but a beginning of judgement that would culminate in 120 years.
Simply a misuse and misunderstanding of scripture on wof part.
tbeachhead
Well-known member
Actully, you're making farming material up, and spreading it as seed...
Here's what Pete said: "It’s been said through the ages that John the apostle is still alive. He penned John 11. I know a friend who recommended faith in that passage. He called the message 'I don’t know.' Great message. The point was, at what point do you stop believing what is so clearly written?"
John 11...not genesis. And here's what John, of whom some claim he never died, said: 11:25 "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me WILL NEVER die. Do you believe this?'"
We can argue about how clear that is...not about the context of Genesis...which has nothing to do with what I said.
tbeachhead
Well-known member
You guys are still reading these posts as you read the scriptures. The fact remains, neither will always say what you want them to say.
Yodas_Prodigy
Well-known member
Exactly...
tbeachhead
Well-known member
I get it...this is 'ice age Jesus.'
Only it's spelled eisegesis. It's all made up.
BlessedAnomaly
Well-known member
Yes, you put out Petisms that make little sense to many, and then you asked: "The point was, at what point do you stop believing what is so clearly written?"
The topic prior to the Petisms was "120 years." It wasn't John. It wasn't in John 11. Your sidestep could have added a nice addendum to the topic, but alas, it had nothing to do with the topic. You lay claim that John never died. Is that 120 years?? I don't think so.
The topic was "120 years." And what is "clearly written" about "120 years" is found in Genesis 6. Nice try, but swing and miss.
Also, when Jesus said "will never die," do you think he was talking physical life? In which case it isn't 120 years. Or do you think he just maybe, kinda, perhaps, likely was talking about eternal life (as opposed to eternal death)? I'll betcha a milkshake he wasn't talking physical.
Genesis....not John 11. The topic is 120 years. Not forever. Not "some people believe." 120. It is mentioned in Genesis 6.
So is that 120 years? I mean, the topic of this thread?
Yes. People who believe in Jesus will have eternal life. Not "never die physically." They will have eternal life.
Ahh. There's the point. It has nothing to do with what you said.
Which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread: 120 years. (It's in the title. Clue!!)
tbeachhead
Well-known member
You feel compelled to defend the indefensible...it's so fruitless and pedantic.
So sorry it confused you. Really sorry. John 11 only really applies to "never dying" not living merely 120 years. I didn't bring up Isaiah, that points to when a person dies at 100 years old, and is said to be accursed. (Isaiah 65:20No longer will a nursing infant live but a few days, or an old man fail to live out his years. For the youth will die at a hundred years, and he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.)
You are talking about folks living to be 120...John has been said by some throughout the centuries to be still alive. That's MORE THAN 120 years. Some people look to John's NT gospel, and not the OT for the promise, because the NT is...well...the New Testament, and is better than the OLD.
And those who can read might think the topic is about a long life, which the OT limited progressively, but whose limits the NT seems to remove.
So sorry it confused you. Really sorry. John 11 only really applies to "never dying" not living merely 120 years. I didn't bring up Isaiah, that points to when a person dies at 100 years old, and is said to be accursed. (Isaiah 65:20No longer will a nursing infant live but a few days, or an old man fail to live out his years. For the youth will die at a hundred years, and he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.)
On what basis would you disbelieve it, and attenuate it to a practically meaningless platitude? Hmmm? That's really the question. Do you suppose John, who penned it, believed it literally? Or did he think "spiritually but he really does die for real?"
I don't know...the context was...wait for it...Lazarus. Was that physical death? What indicates that Jesus didn't really mean what he said? Here's the thing..."He who is living and believes on me will never die." Why would Jesus even say those words? Is this not a "Duh! Obviously!" moment? We ALL know that. Why didn't Martha know that? She actually said, "I know he'll rise again at the resurrection...", but Jesus didn't compliment her for her faith. It looks like He CORRECTED her. Explain why he even said what He said? She was already where you are at.
I apologize. Just making an observation...You want WoFers to stop at the OT. I get it. What Jesus said is irrelevant.
Naaah...It was WoF and long life. Which I misunderstood to be the topic. I withdraw my observation, which doesn't matter anyway. Carry on.
Jesus said "...would never die..." and didn't add "physically." You did. And the context was Lazarus' death.
I have to quit expecting that you guys are interested in what believers have to say...My mistake. Punch on.
BlessedAnomaly
Well-known member
Your whole religion is "it seems to me" and "has been said by some." Wow.
Where does scripture say that the New Testament is better than the Old. Do we dismiss that Jesus is all through the Old as well? Do we dismiss that God changes not? What got better? Everyone is under the same God, the same judgement. God doesn't change.
Again, *you* decide to change the topic because *you* want to control the narrative. The title clearly asks about 120 years, not long life. It has been a claim in WoF for as long as I've known about it that one can live 120 years. They don't preach "live a long life." It is quite clear what this thread is about.
If you'd like to talk about living a long life, you can create a thread with the title "Long life." I'm sure some will come in and add the 120 year argument and then you can clearly correct them. Not here, though.
Pete, do you have 34 years left in you?
But that aside, I didn't say it confused me. "Little sense to many," but I'm following you. It's how I know it is Petisms and not the gospel.
John 11:11 - ' After he said this, he added, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep. But I am going there to awaken him.” '
On what basis would you disbelieve it, and attenuate it to a practically meaningless platitude? Lazarus isn't dead, he's asleep. Jesus said so. They put a sleeping man into the tomb. Jesus came to wake him up.
You're biting at the bit to say agree.
In which case, there is no miracle. For any man using non-miraculous methods can wake a sleeping friend.
No, Pete. The OP asks about 120 years. This conversation comes in Genesis 6 and Lazarus wasn't even a gleam in his father's eye at that time.
You on the other hand wish to hijack the conversation and make it about whatever the heck you want it to be about so that you can go off on "it seems to me" and it "has been said by some." We are not in your world right now, Pete. We are on CARM in a thread started by Tallen that has a title about WoF and living 120 years. And we both know where the WoF concept of living 120 years comes from. It is getting annoying that you simply can't stay on track and listen.
Yeah, I covered that above.
The resurrection to Martha was THE resurrection when all people rise and go to judgement. Jewish mindset.
But you left some stuff off and slightly misquoted the quote. Let's look:
John 11:25b-26
25b "The one who believes in me will live even if he dies, 26 and the one who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
So Pete, It is NOT "he who is living" [physically]. It is "the one who believes in me will live." This is spiritual, eternal life. Jesus goes on "even if he dies" [physically]. Jesus is making the juxtaposition between the physical and the eternal. Then in v26 he goes full on eternal.
So Duh! Jesus is telling Martha that physical death doesn't matter. Those who are in Christ will live eternally. But for their sakes, for their sadness, he will physically bring back Lazarus from the dead (asleep - using words that are NOT meant to be taken literally).
And in v27 when Martha says "I believe that you are the Christ," when juxtaposed with her comment about the resurrection, tells us that she really doesn't know what it meant that Jesus was the Son of God, that he was the Christ. Even after Jesus lived and died on the cross we still needed Paul for many, many years to tell us "do you think it is this? God forbid!! This is what it really meant."
Heavy sigh. No, Genesis 6 talks about God saying that he will wipe the world in 120 years. It has NOTHING to do with how long men will live. John 11 says NOTHING about wiping the world prior to a flood and an ark. It does talk of eternal life.
There is NO connection between the two (other than the visceral connections of the ark being a symbol of salvation for the few) when we are talking about a distinct amount of time before the flood.
That could have been avoided with a simple question about intent.
Then there is no spiritually eternal life. It is physically eternal life. And I guess that people who physically die go to hell, because Jesus said that those he came for "would never die."
When it is on topic for a thread....shoot.
If it is not on topic for a thread....create a thread and set the topic. If it's not too cultish, you'll probably get some takers. I mean look at Ted, he starts about 20 threads a month and 1 or 2 get taken up for more than about 8 posts.
Tallen
Well-known member
I thought all scripture is inspired and to be used to for our benefit. That includes the stuff in the OT we don't find particularly useful. 😉
tbeachhead
Well-known member
I did too, until I met you guys...where is it written "Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises?"
I would have thought that was inspired.
Which begs the question.
Why the going back in baptism, according to Peter (to Noah)
How many thousand of years.
One of those baptismal questions, that I have pondered over.
It's like we are at the starting line, ready to race.
And the answer is no ...... back to Noah for you?
Puzzling?
Last edited:
tbeachhead
Well-known member
Way to stifle conversation. Wow.
it says it in Hebrews. I quoted the passage in response to Ted’s “brutal punch.”
Like you I decided to respond. You decided to punch. Until this thread I had not noticed what you pointed out in the NET translation that God was giving them 120 years and then kaput. Like most, I thought God was limiting man’s lifespan. The NET translators made an interesting choice.
You’re now so oppressively pedantic as to wax boring. Copeland’s made the recent claim that he would live to 120. Ted picked up on that claim. I thought this was in that context. Don’t even care if I’m wrong any more…because perfectly right or idiotically wrong would make no difference in your response on this board. You’re automatically programmed to the latter.
Case in point. This is male bovine farming material.
That is a ”Petism”, btw, safe for me to use in school. My kids all know what I’m not saying because they are “sexually active”smart.
We don’t actually, now that you pointed out a so successfully that Genesis 6 was only pointing to that generation.
Not in Greek.
You can check it out. The Greek living is present progressive participial. The one who is living who believes will not [possibly] ever die. (Greek emphatic double negative).
When you switch the order you switch the context. If he dies came first. The living believer came next.
Nope. And I’m done with this one. The interlinear is easy to find at BibleHub. You can verify what I’m saying without knowing much Greek. I’d like to think you’re interested, but there I go again looking to think. Not sorry.
Isn’t it funny that the NET translators made this choice?
Now you have changed Ted’s OP. If you don’t say anything he probably won’t notice.
tbeachhead
Well-known member
Here’s a respectful observation. Up to this point, each post was in the context of Ted’s OP. Why did you switch it to Genesis 6 (which you have proven is out of context when you accept the interpretation of the NET translators) and Pete?
Up to then we were talking about the expectations preachers have had. From Ted’s OP: “Can you show us any wofer whose (sic) lived that long?”. I mentioned the legend that involves John, and one WoF preacher’s sermon “I Don’t Know.”
Last edited: