wof and Romans 8:38-39

Tallen

Tallen

Well-known member
“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:38-39, KJV)
 
Tallen said:
“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:38-39, KJV)
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Not even travelah. :cool:
 
Tallen said:
“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:38-39, KJV)
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Sounds like Election with Protection...
 
BlessedAnomaly said:
Definitely sounds like protection. But I don't see election in there.
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28 And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose, 29 because those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; and those he called, he also justified; and those he justified, he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 Indeed, he who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is the one who will condemn? Christ is the one who died (and more than that, he was raised), who is at the right hand of God, and who also is interceding for us. 35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will trouble, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written, “For your sake we encounter death all day long; we were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”[ 37 No, in all these things we have complete victory through him who loved us! 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor heavenly rulers, nor things that are present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
Yodas_Prodigy said:
28 And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose, 29 because those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; and those he called, he also justified; and those he justified, he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 Indeed, he who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is the one who will condemn? Christ is the one who died (and more than that, he was raised), who is at the right hand of God, and who also is interceding for us. 35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will trouble, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written, “For your sake we encounter death all day long; we were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”[ 37 No, in all these things we have complete victory through him who loved us! 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor heavenly rulers, nor things that are present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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This doesn't prove the election that you have spoken about for years. This simply says that those who are in God's hand, sealed by the Holy Spirit, are his elect. His elect will have no one who can bring charge against them. The early Christians, for sure, were a bunch who were under constant persecution and in danger of death. All that proves nothing about an elect that did not have to move to believe in the Lord Jesus.

Acts 16:31​
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”​

A God picked elect makes "believe in the Lord" a forced or influenced thing. God's justice goes out the window. It is false justice.

We must "believe in the Lord Jesus" to be saved -- to be part of the elect. Those who don't, according to scripture, are condemned.
 
BlessedAnomaly said:
We must "believe in the Lord Jesus" to be saved -- to be part of the elect. Those who don't, according to scripture, are condemned.
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This is the human perspective. The immature/ignorant believer view.

Later, we learn God's perspective, that we were chosen before the foundation of the world... And the condemned were not chosen...
 
Yodas_Prodigy said:
This is the human perspective. The immature/ignorant believer view.
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Nice ad hom. The only way for you to "win" an argument, hey?

Yodas_Prodigy said:
Later, we learn God's perspective, that we were chosen before the foundation of the world... And the condemned were not chosen...
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What we find is that God has chosen to save the elect -- those he's called who respond by believing upon Jesus. The rest, according to Mark 16:16 are condemned.

Mark 16:15-16​
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned.​

Gee, I wonder who said this. I wonder who taught people how to be immature and ignorant? Joe, who is speaking in Mark 16:16? You won't answer this question, will you?

Read verse 16, Joe. Who did JESUS say will be saved? The pre-chosen elect? Or the ones who believes? Oh, yeah, you have to twist scripture and surmise that the elect will be brought to belief. Not what Jesus said. I don't see him talking about an elect anywhere here.

Ok, let's go with the last straw defense: Mark 16:9-20 isn't in your bible. But we can go to Luke 8:12 and get the same information; or perhaps Acts 16:31; maybe Romans 10:9 -- you like Romans, don't you?; Jude 1:5 preaches the same message.

Perhaps we can go with--

1 Corinthians 15:1-2​
Now I want to make clear for you, brothers and sisters, the gospel that I preached to you, that you received and on which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.​

They received? Why? If they hold firmly to the message? Why? But those who believed in vain are what? Not saved, huh? But if you received, stand, hold firmly to the message then: you are saved.

Geez, no mention of election here.

You believe on Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Nowhere does it say you are saved because you were elected. The elect are the saved, the ones who believed.
 
BlessedAnomaly said:
Nice ad hom. The only way for you to "win" an argument, hey?


What we find is that God has chosen to save the elect -- those he's called who respond by believing upon Jesus. The rest, according to Mark 16:16 are condemned.

Mark 16:15-16​
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned.​

Gee, I wonder who said this. I wonder who taught people how to be immature and ignorant? Joe, who is speaking in Mark 16:16? You won't answer this question, will you?

Read verse 16, Joe. Who did JESUS say will be saved? The pre-chosen elect? Or the ones who believes? Oh, yeah, you have to twist scripture and surmise that the elect will be brought to belief. Not what Jesus said. I don't see him talking about an elect anywhere here.

Ok, let's go with the last straw defense: Mark 16:9-20 isn't in your bible. But we can go to Luke 8:12 and get the same information; or perhaps Acts 16:31; maybe Romans 10:9 -- you like Romans, don't you?; Jude 1:5 preaches the same message.

Perhaps we can go with--

1 Corinthians 15:1-2​
Now I want to make clear for you, brothers and sisters, the gospel that I preached to you, that you received and on which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.​

They received? Why? If they hold firmly to the message? Why? But those who believed in vain are what? Not saved, huh? But if you received, stand, hold firmly to the message then: you are saved.

Geez, no mention of election here.

You believe on Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Nowhere does it say you are saved because you were elected. The elect are the saved, the ones who believed.
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Nothing in here disproves election... If I preach the Gospel and an elected person hears me, they will believe...
BTW, God elects based upon his choice not ours... If God elects us based upon our decision, that really isn't election...
 
Yodas_Prodigy said:
Nothing in here disproves election... If I preach the Gospel and an elected person hears me, they will believe...
BTW, God elects based upon his choice not ours... If God elects us based upon our decision, that really isn't election...
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Election = CHOSEN

Just like a political election. The people choose, therefore elect, the candidate. The candidate doesn't choose himself.

God chose Israel, therefore Israel is the predestinated elect. ?

And your right, the preaching of the Gospel is what brings the chosen into the fold.
 
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