Wokeism is the new religion.

It's white anti-racist who are calling out the Evangelical Church. Anti-racist is another word for racist. There's no such thing as anti-racism there's only racism. If you claim to be an anti-racist you are a racist. Anti-racism is a substitute for faith in God.
I disagree. My conviction is racism is a sin and therefore not in line with the Gospel. Since it is sin it should be called out when seen.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Not judgmental. If one sees sin in the church, one should say something.
It is judgemental.

One of us is a psychologist and it is not you. We observe human behavior. ..and yours clashes with what you say.
So you posted a clip on a dude who was extolling the virtues of diversity.
His home page of his church

Niddrie Community Church

All the congregation is pitch white. So I should see he is sinning and say something.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
I will add from my previous post that being “woke” can simply mean one has been awakened to the injustices in our country. It was only the last few years (white, 54) that I have learned of all the racial disparities (housing, education, incarceration, healthcare) in the US. Really, I was not aware. I also lived out of the country for a number of years doing missions (Haiti, Asia).

I have never been one for labels.
From our accounting credentials, you don't want Thistle and I to count the number of labels you post. Labelism on steroids.
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
So you defend racism.
"white evangelical church" is a racial slur.

When you try to sell us on voting pro-abortion, that is also racist.
You got caught.
Planned Parenthood was formed from a racial eugenics society. They needed a dishonest name.

President Trump for whom you have seething hatred, kept cutting off funding for the racist monster and you don't like what he done did.
Lol that girl has brown hair... White evangelical church look that church population is all white. Not racism.
 

john james

Active member
If you don't know what it does mean, you should avail yourself to that knowledge before advocating it to Christians broadly. Because you don't know what it actually means, you are unwittingly deceiving people into a cult.

Justice is down stream from holiness, and Christians have an absolute obligation to both. However problemitizing the Church, American culture, the family, or any other institution is not identifying injustice. It is criticism, not to correct, not to repent, but to destroy. You need to get out of the business of destroying the Church. I assume that is not your intention, so you must learn about this.

Yet, for some reason you feel compelled to tell us that you are white and 54. Why would that be relevant to any intelligent conversation we could have? It's because someone has suggested to you that you can't be non-racist you can only be anti-racist. So now everyone who knows critical race theory knows what side of the line you are on. The implication is that God screwed up and made you an oppressor race rather than an oppressed race. This is really bad voodoo you are dealing with. You can't cure racism with more racism. God didn't screw up.

Are you talking about an injustice you observed to an identifiable person by another identifiable person? Because I suspect you are talking about "categorical" injustice.

Where I come from Christ's Church is not hyphenated with a racial designation.

There it is, the voodoo. We have to destroy the system because the system is racist. My friend you have just identified the Church of Christ as a system of racism.

Start with yourself. You are white and 54, and according to your view, it's not whether there is racism it's how it's expressing itself, so how have you been racist today? Lets narrow it down, how have you been racist in this post? You see, under your theory, you are being racist, we just have to dig in to see how your racism is expressing itself in this situation. Your Critical Race Theory destroys the redemption of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ did not live out critical race theory.

Of course. I minster to seven or eight countries every single week.
I agree with this reply. This is great!
 

Thistle

Well-known member
I agree with this reply. This is great!
I'm afraid our friend @spinningstill has been sucked into something that he does not fully appreciate. If you look at what Martin Luther King Junior wrote, you will discover he was a good theologian. This new critical race theory, woke approach to social justice, has absolutely no use for the great truthes that Martin Luther Luther King Junior bequeath to us.
 

john james

Active member
I will add from my previous post that being “woke” can simply mean one has been awakened to the injustices in our country. It was only the last few years (white, 54) that I have learned of all the racial disparities (housing, education, incarceration, healthcare) in the US. Really, I was not aware. I also lived out of the country for a number of years doing missions (Haiti, Asia).

I have never been one for labels. However, I am a Christian and if standing up in solidarity for my Black brothers and sisters for the injustices they experience, then call me “woke”. But with that I am a Christian that sees we need to love our neighbor as our self, and historically the white church has not loved our Black brothers and sisters.

Its like any conviction one has. Once you see and become convicted, you read books, watch (countless) documentaries and listen to people who have experienced racism personally and systemically. I do find more often than not that it is mostly white people (the ones who created it) who have issue with it.

That saddens me for those who call themselves “Christians” but fail to live out the Gospel. The Gospel that is for ALL nations.

I shouldn't have to say this but not all minorties think the same and feel the same. Not all minorities see all possibly racist things correctly and not all minorties see all possibley racist things incorrectly.

There are some racism going on but it appears to be hyped up and made to seem larger than it is.

Let me share a secret in the black community that some black people don't know or don't like to admit. We can get traumatized by racist experiences and that can taint the way we see things. So some times there is Systematic racism but sometimes it isn't. Sometimes it is a person being racist and sometimes it isn't. The problem is that many who are racist are very good at hiding it so the only way sometimes to see if they are is by setting them up or knowing their motives and intentions. Knowing their motives and intentions is difficult to know. So many black people count on what their taught by other black people and they count on their feelings, experiences and perceptions of past racist situations. However using what they were taught, their feelings, their experiences and their perceptions, doesn't determine if someone is racist a lot of times without evidence. So many black people feel a lot
of things curremtly are racist without any evidence. That doesn't say they might not be but going based upon feelings that could be from a person that sees it more places than they would have before being traumatized,
it might not be something to go by.

I've have had racist situations happen to me and used to be more like the above. God has help me see that I needed healing to see things better in which I got that healing. Now I go more by evidence. Unfortunately there will be people that have motives and intentions that are bad but that doesn't mean I need to assume that because they did something very similar or the same as someone in my past that I did have evidence for being racist, that they are too. Its this mindset that was healed from of seeing racism in people and institutions that is making it seem like is worst. And some use Critical Race Theory to give a similar mindset but use it is worst.

I dont like to talk about the Church when it comes to this but they can have done better. However in my view it is not as bad as some in the Church and in the Culture make it out to be. Some Christians who are black will make it seem like this is something the church has dropped the ball on. To the extent where they could have done something maybe but the problem is how could they have droped ball on a problem that is made out to be greater than it is.

Some in culture are leading the culture to think bad ways about racism and Systematic racism where as they are making it seem like it is everywhere. And some in the Church are following what the culture is getting from the culture. There is a small amount in the Church that are using some of the same bad teachings and indoctrination like what is presented to the culture like Critical Race Theory. They think it will help them see what some minorities already see but it makes it worst. Many minorities don't see it in places that Critical Race Theory will say it is but some minorities who know Critical Race Theory do.

As far as Systematic racism. I would say that if there is an institution with some racist in it and some who are not racist in it. If the racist people control the institution to where as minorities are discriminated against and it is provable with evidence(not feelings and experience) than it could be Systematic racism for that institution alone. But if some in the institution are racist and some are not and the institution DOES NOT discriminate, than it is not Systematic for that institution alone. I would take each institution on a case by case basis. As far as people, also each person and situation on a case by case basis.

I suggest to consider all sides whether it is a black person like me or a black person that says differently. But I strongly suggest that the Word of God be used to determine if one or the other side is correct or if neither side is correct.

Justice is something we should do according to the Word but knowing if it is injustice or not is the problem sometimes. I suggest to let the Lord direct you on that.

Injustice used to fight injustice is not Justice. And that is what some in the culture want to do. And unfortunately some in the Church are being led astray by the same things that are leading the culture indirectly in some ways.

The good thing is most in the Church are trying to do it right but they need to understand that the Word and God is all they need. Things like Critical Race Theory and what the culture says are antithetical to the Word even though sometimes on the surface it seems to agree.

Yes some want equality in both the culture and Church. On the surface, that is correct. But it is way deeper than that.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
I shouldn't have to say this but not all minorties think the same and feel the same. Not all minorities see all possibly racist things correctly and not all minorties see all possibley racist things incorrectly.

There are some racism going on but it appears to be hyped up and made to seem larger than it is.

Let me share a secret in the black community that some black people don't know or don't like to admit. We can get traumatized by racist experiences and that can taint the way we see things. So some times there is Systematic racism but sometimes it isn't. Sometimes it is a person being racist and sometimes it isn't. The problem is that many who are racist are very good at hiding it so the only way sometimes to see if they are is by setting them up or knowing their motives and intentions. Knowing their motives and intentions is difficult to know. So many black people count on what their taught by other black people and they count on their feelings, experiences and perceptions of past racist situations. However using what they were taught, their feelings, their experiences and their perceptions, doesn't determine if someone is racist a lot of times without evidence. So many black people feel a lot
of things curremtly are racist without any evidence. That doesn't say they might not be but going based upon feelings that could be from a person that sees it more places than they would have before being traumatized,
it might not be something to go by.

I've have had racist situations happen to me and used to be more like the above. God has help me see that I needed healing to see things better in which I got that healing. Now I go more by evidence. Unfortunately there will be people that have motives and intentions that are bad but that doesn't mean I need to assume that because they did something very similar or the same as someone in my past that I did have evidence for being racist, that they are too. Its this mindset that was healed from of seeing racism in people and institutions that is making it seem like is worst. And some use Critical Race Theory to give a similar mindset but use it is worst.

I dont like to talk about the Church when it comes to this but they can have done better. However in my view it is not as bad as some in the Church and in the Culture make it out to be. Some Christians who are black will make it seem like this is something the church has dropped the ball on. To the extent where they could have done something maybe but the problem is how could they have droped ball on a problem that is made out to be greater than it is.

Some in culture are leading the culture to think bad ways about racism and Systematic racism where as they are making it seem like it is everywhere. And some in the Church are following what the culture is getting from the culture. There is a small amount in the Church that are using some of the same bad teachings and indoctrination like what is presented to the culture like Critical Race Theory. They think it will help them see what some minorities already see but it makes it worst. Many minorities don't see it in places that Critical Race Theory will say it is but some minorities who know Critical Race Theory do.

As far as Systematic racism. I would say that if there is an institution with some racist in it and some who are not racist in it. If the racist people control the institution to where as minorities are discriminated against and it is provable with evidence(not feelings and experience) than it could be Systematic racism for that institution alone. But if some in the institution are racist and some are not and the institution DOES NOT discriminate, than it is not Systematic for that institution alone. I would take each institution on a case by case basis. As far as people, also each person and situation on a case by case basis.

I suggest to consider all sides whether it is a black person like me or a black person that says differently. But I strongly suggest that the Word of God be used to determine if one or the other side is correct or if neither side is correct.

Justice is something we should do according to the Word but knowing if it is injustice or not is the problem sometimes. I suggest to let the Lord direct you on that.

Injustice used to fight injustice is not Justice. And that is what some in the culture want to do. And unfortunately some in the Church are being led astray by the same things that are leading the culture indirectly in some ways.

The good thing is most in the Church are trying to do it right but they need to understand that the Word and God is all they need. Things like Critical Race Theory and what the culture says are antithetical to the Word even though sometimes on the surface it seems to agree.

Yes some want equality in both the culture and Church. On the surface, that is correct. But it is way deeper than that.
These are great observations thanks for sharing that. It kind of gets back to all of these questions about innocence or guilt it's highly fact specific.
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
Then why are you generalizing white evangelicals?
This is why.


  • 59% of white evangelicals believe that immigrants are “invading our country and replacing our cultural and ethnic background,” a view shared by only 30% of all other religious Americans and 31% of the country.
  • 7 in 10 white evangelicals continue to see the killing of unarmed Black people by police as isolated incidents rather than part of a pattern of how police treat African Americans. In contrast, among all other religious Americans and the country as a whole, only 43% agree with this assessment.
  • Over the last five years, polling has found a 10-point drop in the percentage of Americans who deny racial bias in policing, but white evangelical Protestants have remain unmoved.
  • Only one quarter of white evangelicals believe Trump’s decisions and behaviors have encouraged white supremacist groups across the country, compared to 6 in 10 Americans who are not white evangelicals who believe this about Trump.
 
Top