Women Are Not To Teach From The Pulpit or In Church Media.

Stephen

Active member
No apology is needed. It was God himself who caused it to happen, even though you dislike me intensely.

I don't think I've said anything regarding my like or dislike of you. I presume that you are serious about your faith and love of God. We just disagree on this issue.

Rome didn't have any means of distinguishing Christianity from Judaism as it was the same God, the same law, and the same spirit. Jesus was of course a Jew. Moreover there were many Christians in Jerusalem. At the most it was just a variant of Judaism. It wasn't anything Rome could care about. It was only much later that Rome saw Christianity as a threat. You really are making a lot of things up. The only reason Paul went to Rome was to escape the Jews.

The arguments Paul raised at his trials were not about escaping the Jews, but rather that Christianity was an extension of Judaism. Paul intentionally went into the lions den of Judea despite the advice of his brothers and sisters in Asia minor (see Acts 20). We wasn't afraid for his life in the least.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
At the time 1st Corinthians was written that wasn't the case. Paul was wanting to go to Rome to make that argument before Caesar to turn Christianity into a licit (as opposed to illicit) religion.

One of the more interesting hypothesis out there is that the books of Luke and Acts were the court filings for Paul's legal arguement, which is why Acts ends before the trial.
Your Hypothesis Fails
 

101G

Well-known member
Let's put to an end this notion that women cannot speak in the Church per 1Cor 14:34. a good bible student is taught of the Holy Spirit. let's examine the context of the Scriptures.
1Cor 14:31 "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted".
If women cannot speak/prophesy in Church, then that’s a direct contradiction of Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: ONE CAN MAKE A CROSS REFERENCE OF THE TWO VERSES. ABOVE
Right here, this is proof that women can “SPEAK”/prophesy in the Church. for the term prophesy means to "SPEAK".
G4395 προφητεύω propheteuo (pro-fee-tev'-ō) v.
to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office.
[from G4396]
KJV: prophesy

if God poured out his Spirit on the daughters, which are Females/Women then we need to correctly understand verse 34, below which the apostles was never speaking to any woman/Female. see post # https://forums.carm.org/threads/wom...he-pulpit-or-in-church-media.9576/post-778853

as well as
1Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
which is a HOME SETTING

PIUCJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
1Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

all of these scriptures are speaking of MATRRIED Women ..... ONLY. and what their Husband responsibility was according to the law.

and neither verse was directed at any woman at all. we need to understand the context.

just as Joel 2:28 clearly permits WOMEN to Speak/prophesy in church. one of the first women to do so was Anna.
Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luke 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luke 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

this woman was in the TEMPLE "Speaking" of the Lord Jesus, and his redemption. for the term "Speak" is the same in Prophecy,
G2980 λαλέω laleo (lal-ye'-ō) v.
to talk, i.e. speak words.
[a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb]
KJV: preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter

and prophesy means,
G4395 προφητεύω propheteuo (pro-fee-tev'-ō) v.
to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office.
[from G4396]
KJV: prophesy

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
Let's put to an end this notion that women cannot speak in the Church per 1Cor 14:34. a good bible student is taught of the Holy Spirit. let's examine the context of the Scriptures.
1Cor 14:31 "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted".
If women cannot speak/prophesy in Church, then that’s a direct contradiction of Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: ONE CAN MAKE A CROSS REFERENCE OF THE TWO VERSES. ABOVE
Right here, this is proof that women can “SPEAK”/prophesy in the Church. for the term prophesy means to "SPEAK".
G4395 προφητεύω propheteuo (pro-fee-tev'-ō) v.
to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office.
[from G4396]
KJV: prophesy

if God poured out his Spirit on the daughters, which are Females/Women then we need to correctly understand verse 34, below which the apostles was never speaking to any woman/Female. see post # https://forums.carm.org/threads/wom...he-pulpit-or-in-church-media.9576/post-778853

as well as
1Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
which is a HOME SETTING

PIUCJAG, 101G.
"It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church"

1 Corinthians 14:34-35KJV
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
1Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

all of these scriptures are speaking of MATRRIED Women ..... ONLY. and what their Husband responsibility was according to the law.

and neither verse was directed at any woman at all. we need to understand the context.

just as Joel 2:28 clearly permits WOMEN to Speak/prophesy in church. one of the first women to do so was Anna.
Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luke 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luke 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

this woman was in the TEMPLE "Speaking" of the Lord Jesus, and his redemption. for the term "Speak" is the same in Prophecy,
G2980 λαλέω laleo (lal-ye'-ō) v.
to talk, i.e. speak words.
[a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb]
KJV: preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter

and prophesy means,
G4395 προφητεύω propheteuo (pro-fee-tev'-ō) v.
to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office.
[from G4396]
KJV: prophesy

PICJAG, 101G.
"It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church"

1 Corinthians 14:34-35KJV
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
2Cor.11:2​
I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:
for I have espoused you to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.​

even as our beloved brother Paul
also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you
;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction
.

Paul speaks to the Bride of Christ
1Cor.14:34​
Let your women keep silence in the churches:
for it is not permitted unto them to speak;
but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing,
let them ask their husbands at home:
for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.​
Can anyone show me where in the Law of Moses or Christ
that : Let your women keep silence in the churches:"
as also saith the law.
or it is a shame for women to speak in the church

Now listen to what Paul is really saying

36 What? came the word of God out from you?​
or came it unto you only?​
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual,​
let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you​
are the commandments of the Lord.​
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.​
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy,​
and forbid not to speak with tongues.​
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.​

So; will someone show me where I can find this
"
Let your women keep silence in the churches:"​
as also saith the law.​
or it is a shame for women to speak in the church​
you will not find it in Scripture
 

101G

Well-known member
"It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church"

1 Corinthians 14:34-35KJV
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
ERROR, the apostle was not even speaking to women, but to their HUSBANDS. for the term "WOMEN" is
G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.
[probably from the base of G1096]
KJV: wife, woman
Root(s): G1096

how do we know it's wives and and not women in general, here's why. 1Cor 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

so, T7t7, what kind of Woman have a "husband?" answer, a married one. and notice it said husband(s) with the "s" at the end. the apostle was speaking about MARRIED WOMEN. not ALL WOMEN in the CHURCH. never assume anything tread the context.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
Corinthians 14:34KJV Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

NOTE: the apostle was not even speaking to Woman, or wives, but to their husbands. how do we know this. if I was speaking to You and said, " Let your children stop running around in Church", who am I speaking to? you the parent or the child? answer the parent.

Let your wives be silence in the churches. so, the apostle here was speaking to husbands ONLY. why Husbands? for they are responsible for their own households as the LAW of Marriage requires. and here it is. . Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. NOTICE GOD SAID "RULE OVER", AND NOT "RULE". to rule over is to taker responsible, and that's why her, the wife desires are to be unto her own husband.

the Law of Marriage is right in the first five book of the bible called the Pentateuch, or the Torah.


PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
Now, the 1Tim 2:12 MIS-UNDERSTANDING. "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence". here silence is used also .... WHY? to learn from her HUSBAND. this is a HOME setting, meaning a Husband and wife. for the term "Woman" here is the same, it's
G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.
[probably from the base of G1096]
KJV: wife, woman
Root(s): G1096

and how do we know it is speaking of a "WIFE?" answer, verse 15,
1Tim 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Question, what kind of WOMAN bear children? a married one .... LEGALLY, BINGO, a wife.

the Word of God is supposed to be taught by the head of the HOUESE, in this case, the HUSBAND. he is to teach, or instruct his wife and children about God, and the things of God. hence the responsibility according to the GENERAL LAEW of Marriage.

so this is a HOUSEHOLD SETTING.... so, no, not all women in General.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
Now, the 1Tim 2:12 MIS-UNDERSTANDING. "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence". here silence is used also .... WHY? to learn from her HUSBAND. this is a HOME setting, meaning a Husband and wife. for the term "Woman" here is the same, it's
G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.
[probably from the base of G1096]
KJV: wife, woman
Root(s): G1096

and how do we know it is speaking of a "WIFE?" answer, verse 15,
1Tim 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Question, what kind of WOMAN bear children? a married one .... LEGALLY, BINGO, a wife.

the Word of God is supposed to be taught by the head of the HOUESE, in this case, the HUSBAND. he is to teach, or instruct his wife and children about God, and the things of God. hence the responsibility according to the GENERAL LAEW of Marriage.

so this is a HOUSEHOLD SETTING.... so, no, not all women in General.

PICJAG, 101G.
Pretty Simple, Very Clear, And Easy To Understand

"It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church"


1 Corinthians 14:34-35KJV
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
once again

2Cor.11:2​
I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:
for I have espoused you to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.​

even as our beloved brother Paul
also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you
;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction
.

Paul speaks to the Bride of Christ
1Cor.14:34​
Let your women keep silence in the churches:
for it is not permitted unto them to speak;
but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing,
let them ask their husbands at home:
for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.​
Can anyone show me where in the Law of Moses or Christ
that : Let your women keep silence in the churches:"
as also saith the law.
or it is a shame for women to speak in the church

Now listen to what Paul is really saying

36 What? came the word of God out from you?​
or came it unto you only?​
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual,​
let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you​
are the commandments of the Lord.​
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.​
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy,​
and forbid not to speak with tongues.​
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.​

So; will someone show me where I can find this
"
Let your women keep silence in the churches:"​
as also saith the law.​
or it is a shame for women to speak in the church​
you will not find it in Scripture

What Law says as you espouse.

as Paul says;
What? came the word of God out from you?​
or came it unto you only?​
 

101G

Well-known member
Pretty Simple, Very Clear, And Easy To Understand

"It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church"


1 Corinthians 14:34-35KJV
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
listen,
1Cor 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Cor 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
(SEEM LIKE SO MEN HAVE TO KEEP SILENCE IN THE CHURCH ALSO).
1Cor 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Cor 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Cor 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

God said that woman may "SPEAK/PROPHESY" so who are U to say otherwise?

PICJAG, 101G.
 

cjab

Well-known member
God said that woman may "SPEAK/PROPHESY" so who are U to say otherwise?
Doesn't give women a licence to prophecy in the church meeting. 1 Cor 14:32 "The Spirit of the prophets are subject to the control of the prophets."

Except that feminists and their abettors don't think that they should be restrained in any way, shape or form.
 

101G

Well-known member
Doesn't give women a licence to prophecy in the church meeting. 1 Cor 14:32
how about 1Cor 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

how many is "ye .... ALL?"

PICJAG, 101G
 

cjab

Well-known member
how about 1Cor 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

how many is "ye .... ALL?"

PICJAG, 101G
Letter was addressed to brethren. Three times ἀδελφοί (brothers alone) are appealed to in 1 Cor 14.

Three times the woke and heretical and mendacious NIV translates ἀδελφοί as "brothers and sisters."
 

101G

Well-known member
Letter was addressed to brethren. Three times ἀδελφοί (brothers alone) are appealed to in 1 Cor 14.

Three times the woke and heretical and mendacious NIV translates ἀδελφοί as "brothers and sisters."
ERROR, 1Cor 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Oh I see your mistake.

brethren: G80 ἀδελφός adelphos (a-d̮el-fos') n.
1. a brother.
2. (of faith) a brother in our Lord, Jesus.
{literally or figuratively; near or remote; much like G1}
[from G1 (as a connective particle) and delphus “the womb”]
KJV: brother


:ninja:
 

cjab

Well-known member
As you can see from the table below "ἀδελφοί" as used in 1 Cor 14 is only masculine (neither neuter nor feminine). If Paul had wanted to writer to both sexes, he would have used the neuter (presumably).

First and second declension of ᾰ̓δελφός (M); ᾰ̓δελφή (F); ᾰ̓δελφόν (N) (Attic)

NumberSingularDualPlural
Case/GenderMasculineFeminineNeuterMasculineFeminineNeuterMasculineFeminineNeuter
Nominativeᾰ̓δελφός
adelphós
ᾰ̓δελφή
adelphḗ
ᾰ̓δελφόν
adelphón
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφᾱ́
adelphā́
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφοί
adelphoí
ᾰ̓δελφαί
adelphaí
ᾰ̓δελφᾰ́
adelphá
Genitiveᾰ̓δελφοῦ
adelphoû
ᾰ̓δελφῆς
adelphês
ᾰ̓δελφοῦ
adelphoû
ᾰ̓δελφοῖν
adelphoîn
ᾰ̓δελφαῖν
adelphaîn
ᾰ̓δελφοῖν
adelphoîn
ᾰ̓δελφῶν
adelphôn
ᾰ̓δελφῶν
adelphôn
ᾰ̓δελφῶν
adelphôn
Dativeᾰ̓δελφῷ
adelphôi
ᾰ̓δελφῇ
adelphêi
ᾰ̓δελφῷ
adelphôi
ᾰ̓δελφοῖν
adelphoîn
ᾰ̓δελφαῖν
adelphaîn
ᾰ̓δελφοῖν
adelphoîn
ᾰ̓δελφοῖς
adelphoîs
ᾰ̓δελφαῖς
adelphaîs
ᾰ̓δελφοῖς
adelphoîs
Accusativeᾰ̓δελφόν
adelphón
ᾰ̓δελφήν
adelphḗn
ᾰ̓δελφόν
adelphón
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφᾱ́
adelphā́
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφούς
adelphoús
ᾰ̓δελφᾱ́ς
adelphā́s
ᾰ̓δελφᾰ́
adelphá
Vocativeᾰ̓δελφέ
adelphé
ᾰ̓δελφή
adelphḗ
ᾰ̓δελφόν
adelphón
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφᾱ́
adelphā́
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφοί
adelphoí
ᾰ̓δελφαί
adelphaí
ᾰ̓δελφᾰ́
adelphá
 

101G

Well-known member
As you can see from the table below "ἀδελφοί" as used in 1 Cor 14 is only masculine (neither neuter nor feminine). If Paul had wanted to writer to both sexes, he would have used the neuter (presumably).

First and second declension of ᾰ̓δελφός (M); ᾰ̓δελφή (F); ᾰ̓δελφόν (N) (Attic)

NumberSingularDualPlural
Case/GenderMasculineFeminineNeuterMasculineFeminineNeuterMasculineFeminineNeuter
Nominativeᾰ̓δελφός
adelphós
ᾰ̓δελφή
adelphḗ
ᾰ̓δελφόν
adelphón
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφᾱ́
adelphā́
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφοί
adelphoí
ᾰ̓δελφαί
adelphaí
ᾰ̓δελφᾰ́
adelphá
Genitiveᾰ̓δελφοῦ
adelphoû
ᾰ̓δελφῆς
adelphês
ᾰ̓δελφοῦ
adelphoû
ᾰ̓δελφοῖν
adelphoîn
ᾰ̓δελφαῖν
adelphaîn
ᾰ̓δελφοῖν
adelphoîn
ᾰ̓δελφῶν
adelphôn
ᾰ̓δελφῶν
adelphôn
ᾰ̓δελφῶν
adelphôn
Dativeᾰ̓δελφῷ
adelphôi
ᾰ̓δελφῇ
adelphêi
ᾰ̓δελφῷ
adelphôi
ᾰ̓δελφοῖν
adelphoîn
ᾰ̓δελφαῖν
adelphaîn
ᾰ̓δελφοῖν
adelphoîn
ᾰ̓δελφοῖς
adelphoîs
ᾰ̓δελφαῖς
adelphaîs
ᾰ̓δελφοῖς
adelphoîs
Accusativeᾰ̓δελφόν
adelphón
ᾰ̓δελφήν
adelphḗn
ᾰ̓δελφόν
adelphón
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφᾱ́
adelphā́
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφούς
adelphoús
ᾰ̓δελφᾱ́ς
adelphā́s
ᾰ̓δελφᾰ́
adelphá
Vocativeᾰ̓δελφέ
adelphé
ᾰ̓δελφή
adelphḗ
ᾰ̓δελφόν
adelphón
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφᾱ́
adelphā́
ᾰ̓δελφώ
adelphṓ
ᾰ̓δελφοί
adelphoí
ᾰ̓δελφαί
adelphaí
ᾰ̓δελφᾰ́
adelphá
he wrote to the church, once more,
1Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

and in the churh of God there is neither male nor female .... so you are reproved.

:ninja:
 
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