Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Opinion noted.That isn't the reason for Paul's teaching. May be you need to read the bible some more.
Opinion noted.That isn't the reason for Paul's teaching. May be you need to read the bible some more.
Could be that ONE OF US needs to (Chuckle).That isn't the reason for Paul's teaching. May be you need to read the bible some more.
Paul's teaching on M-F relations is based only on "the law." If you haven't worked that out yet, you've still got a lot to learn.Could be that ONE OF US needs to (Chuckle).
ONE of us does, for sure!!!Paul's teaching on M-F relations is based only on "the law." If you haven't worked that out yet, you've still got a lot to learn.
And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which fell down from Jupiter?This is EPHESUS, remember - the very place where the "image" fell from Jupiter (Acts 19:35). It was a matriarchal religious system. Paul apparently had some experience coming against that system.
Yes, it is you.ONE of us does, for sure!!!
I can pretty much guarantee what Bob is presenting you have never heard before.That isn't the reason for Paul's teaching. May be you need to read the bible some more.
see ya, I have no time for vain babbling.That is clearly not what 1 Cor 14 is saying. It is what you are saying by mixing up different passages.
As I said to Bob, all Paul's teaching on M-F relations is governed by "the law" i.e. the law of Moses. Unfortunately the gnostic element amongst us, which is very considerable in protestant circles, and whch has been present from the beginning in the teachings of the gnostics as to the inferiority of the Old Testament God, prefers to invent other reasons for Paul's teaching that is somehow superior to "the law" that they can by no means accept, because they have yet to grasp that the religion of Christ doesn't embrace the principles of the world.I can pretty much guarantee what Bob is presenting you have never heard before.
Bob may be right or Bob may be wrong....but it does seem as if Bob is applying hermenuitics to the scripture.
That teaching wasn't governed by the law of Moses. It was governed by the law of creation. But anyway, the question is why was the rule implemented?As I said to Bob, all Paul's teaching on M-F relations is governed by "the law" i.e. the law of Moses. Unfortunately the gnostic element amongst us, which is very considerable in protestant circles, and whch has been present from the beginning in the teachings of the gnostics as to the inferiority of the Old Testament God, prefers to invent other reasons for Paul's teaching that is somehow superior to "the law" that they can by no means accept, because they have yet to grasp that the religion of Christ doesn't embrace the principles of the world.
You'll note that the Jerusalem church had no issue with Women ministering, and Women as prophets. and of course there's Gal 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."That teaching wasn't governed by the law of Moses. It was governed by the law of creation. But anyway, the question is why was the rule implemented?
Bob seems to suggest the women there were into some strange lady gods and pushing that belief in the church....do you say Bob is wrong?
Yes, in this case. He is conflating what resulted from later doctrines respecting the Trinity, which derived from mixing pagan elements with Jewish monotheism. This led to mariolatry, which was not present, so far as we know, in any of the early apostolic churches, which had a considerable Jewish element, such that the main problem in the early apostolic churches came from Jews demanding that the Gentiles submit to Jewish customary law. The law of M-F relations was never seen by Paul as customary law, because it entailed moral precepts. It formed an exception to the Jewish laws to be cast off; and came within the law to be upheld per Rom 3:31.That teaching wasn't governed by the law of Moses. It was governed by the law of creation. But anyway, the question is why was the rule implemented?
Bob seems to suggest the women there were into some strange lady gods and pushing that belief in the church....do you say Bob is wrong?
How do you know?and these women was not labouring with Paul in the Kitchen.... cooking food. (smile).
I don't find the text "Women Speaking in Church." It seems you invented it.Women Speaking in Church,
1 Corinthians 11:4 "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head."1 Corinthians 11:5 "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven."
did you not READ? help those women which laboured with me in the gospel. didn't say kitchen, did it? (smile), lol, lol, lol, Oh Dear....How do you know?
Rom 16:2 "she hath been a succourer of many, and of me myself."“Our Sister Phebe, the Bishop”the First "Bishop" at Rome, continue.
Part II
we see the definition
G4291?, προΐστημι proistemi (pro-iy'-stee-miy) v.
1. to stand before.
2. (in rank) to preside.
3. (by implication) to practise.
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule
Bishop: G1984 ἐπισκοπή episkope (e-piy-sko-pee') n.
1. inspection (for relief).
2. (by implication) superintendence.
3. (specially) the Christian “episcopate.”
Definition #2 states superintendence, just What G4291 do. And our sister Phebe is the “feminine of G4291”. A female bishop. because definition #3 (specially) the Christian “episcopate.” what do “episcopate.” means? answer, the office or term of office of a bishop. BINGO
This woman is a female bishop (derivative of G429) Let's look at the bishop in 1 Timothy 3:1 "This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. these words, "office of a Bishop", is not an office at all. what is it then, and why is it call the office of a Bishop? according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words concerning “office”, Noun, G4234 πρᾶξις praxis (prax`-is) n.
1. practice
2. (concretely) an act
3. (by extension) a function
[from G4238]
KJV: deed, office, work
G4238 πράσσω prasso (pras'-so) v.
1. to practice, i.e. perform repeatedly or habitually
2. (by implication) to execute, accomplish, etc.
3. (specially) to collect (dues), fare (personally)
{differing from G4160, which properly refers to a single act}
[a primary verb]
KJV: commit, deeds, do, exact, keep, require, use arts
“a doing, deed" (akin to prasso, "to do or practice"), also denotes "an acting" or "function," translated "office" in Rom 12:4. See DEED. a deed is a work or Labor.
DEED[ 2,,G4234, praxis ]denotes "a doing”, transaction, a deed the action of which is looked upon as incomplete and in progress" (cp. prasso, "to practice"); in Matt 16:27, RV, "deeds," for AV, "works;" in Luke 23:51, "deed;" in Luke 23:41, the verb is used [See Note (2) below]; Acts 19:18; Rom 8:13; Col 3:9. In Rom 12:4 it denotes an "action," business, or function translated "office." See OFFICE, WORK. Notes: (1) In the AV of Rom 16:2 pragma (G4229), is translated "business," RV, "matter." See MATTER, THING, WORK.
we know that a Bishop is a “work”, or a “deed”. Bishop: G1984 ἐπισκοπή episkope (ep-is-kop-ay') n.
1. inspection (for relief)
2. (by implication) superintendence
[from G1980]
KJV: the office of a "bishop", bishoprick, visitation
Root(s): G1980
in the definition above, Bishop, is an ACT or "FUNCTION", and the deed, the work, or the act is translate in or language of understanding as office.
lets define this ACT, or FUNCTION of Bishop.
G4234 πρᾶξις praxis (prax`-is) n.
1. practice
2. (concretely) an act
3. (by extension) a function
[from G4238]
KJV: , office, work
Root(s): G4238
Deed, So a Bishop have a work, or act, or deed to do, scripture, 1 Timothy 3:1 "This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work”. in the above definition of G4234 πρᾶξις praxis a practice is an “act”, or a“function” of a GOOD WORK. so where is this act, or deed, or this function come in at?. “LEADERSHIP”. notice Thayer’s definition below
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v.
1. to stand before
2. (in rank) to preside
3. (by implication) to practise
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule
Root(s): G4253, G2476
1. to set or place before
a. to set over
b. to be over, to superintend, preside over
c. to be a protector or guardian
1. to give aid
d. to care for, give attention to
1. profess honest occupations
according to Vines dictionary, it is in reference to the work of an overseer, is found in 1Pet 5:2, RV, "exercising the oversight," for AV "taking the oversight." See OVERSIGHT.
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi above, note 1b definition, to be over, to superintend, preside over, hence a Bishop. now a WOMAN in that same position, that same function. scripture, Romans 16:1 " I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also”.
look at the word, "succourer", here. according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries it's the Greek word,
G4368 προστάτις prostatis (pros-tat'-is) n.
1. a patroness, i.e. assistant
[feminine of a derivative of G4291]
KJV: succourer
Root(s): G4291
What have we learned? this woman was sent to Rome to do a work. And this work was in what we identify as the office of bishop. I know the church father of the catholic church wish they had this letter or epistle in their personal vault. If they did no would ever see it. but the Lord Jesus have made it available for all to see and read. God know how to preserve his word, it only needs a little research to secure it.
for the proverb is true, Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
and we're kings, see Rev. 1:6
without knowledge is your absurdities. did you not READ? Romans 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:"What absurdities will the gnostics think of next?