Word of Faith and Musings

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
I hadn't thought much about Word Faith until I saw a Reformed Meme on Facebook and Ted mentioned some good conversation at CARM. The parasites who have sucked and still suck money off of the ignorant, and the wannabe demigods who want a following of disciples are just continued evidence of the fallenness of this movement.

Let's review... They want to be little gods, need for Jesus to die a spiritual death, need for faith to be a force that makes things happen, have a desire for wealth, and believe that we should always be healthy.

That last paragraph really demonstrates the depravity of this movement. They fall for Satan's lie just like Adam and Eve fell in the garden. They have a need to be equal to Christ. So, they brought humanity up and drag Christ down by having him die spiritually.. Their zest for power comes to light in the force of faith and wealth.

This has all been a reminder why this forum exists... To educate the casual reader...
 

Tallen

Well-known member
I hadn't thought much about Word Faith until I saw a Reformed Meme on Facebook and Ted mentioned some good conversation at CARM. The parasites who have sucked and still suck money off of the ignorant, and the wannabe demigods who want a following of disciples are just continued evidence of the fallenness of this movement.

Let's review... They want to be little gods, need for Jesus to die a spiritual death, need for faith to be a force that makes things happen, have a desire for wealth, and believe that we should always be healthy.

That last paragraph really demonstrates the depravity of this movement. They fall for Satan's lie just like Adam and Eve fell in the garden. They have a need to be equal to Christ. So, they brought humanity up and drag Christ down by having him die spiritually.. Their zest for power comes to light in the force of faith and wealth.

This has all been a reminder why this forum exists... To educate the casual reader...
Speaking of this forum, word of faith is dead and what is left are a few bones that get picked over now and then. Like BA and TB bickering about old posters who withered away. They left a few comments in another recent thread. There is absolutely no wofist in the forum that discuss wof beliefs. The core beliefs you mentioned have been put to sleep and refuted to the point no one picks them up any more.

I agree, YP... this forum has been a great tool to educate the casual reader and point out the depravity that lays at the heart of the wof movement.

Copeland has a jet.
 

BlessedAnomaly

Well-known member
Speaking of this forum,
Good phrase :)

Like BA and TB bickering about old posters who withered away.
That's not what we bicker over. We bicker over whether "the" means "the" or if it means "the"!! Endlessly, because somebody is a linguist. ;)

They left a few comments in another recent thread. There is absolutely no wofist in the forum that discuss wof beliefs. The core beliefs you mentioned have been put to sleep and refuted to the point no one picks them up any more.
I left YP's post alone. The "core beliefs" you mention are only teachings of a few, not the movement. "Ye are gods" is scriptural, but Cope acting like he is equal to I AM is his heresy. Same with the force of faith. But, yes, wealth and health are a common theme across the movement.
And there was a death in my life, regardless of how strongly I tried to refute that teaching, because of the erroneous teaching of health.

The list of items that YP makes in the OP raises my BP because it is repeated like an EP record playing on a system from HP ... (ok, I'll stop).
That list has become a trope. The Word of Faith movement doesn't teach it (not that I fully defend WoF), only certain individuals have done some of what is in the list. And yes, they are very heretical individuals.

And it is this whitewashing of the whole based upon the sins of the few that makes them dig in even deeper and not listen to you. You tell them they want to be little gods, but most of WoF has never heard this. So they think of you as misdirected or even a liar. When I went around to other forums and met WoF members from around the world, I was surprised to find just how many -- even pastors, such a one I know in Ireland -- have either never heard of Copeland, or perhaps heard his name but do not know any of his teaching. And yet to you, they fall under your trope.

I agree, YP... this forum has been a great tool to educate the casual reader and point out the depravity that lays at the heart of the wof movement.
I think the above reason is why this place dried up: your approach is a caricature, and they can't take you seriously. So they left: not WoF, but CARM. They left for other sites, for churches, for likeminded individuals -- and now you can't educate a cow patty.

And all this says nothing about WHAT you are trying to teach, right or wrong, but more about HOW, about the approach. Close up shop here -- not because you've done your job well, but rather because you have not done your job well. But the people that you could have influenced here are gone.

Copeland has a jet.
...and a toupée.
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
Good phrase :)
..........
...and a toupée.

Quite honestly, I am not worried about WoFers being here. They may have left for like-minded people and to avoid conflict. My goal is to help people stay out of the movement.

As for people who don't hold to certain teaching in WoF, I am reminded of my five points of WOFism... Just like three, four, and five point Calvinists, there are the same with WoF. If they don't hold to at least the first three points, they aren't Word Faith. Perhaps they are Charismatic or Pentecostal... Those three are little gods, JDS, and Faith/Confession, these three should normally be tied together... Health and wealth can cut across denominational lines i.e. Charismatic, Pentacostal, and perhaps others...
 
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BlessedAnomaly

Well-known member
Quite honestly, I am not worried about WoFers being here. They may have left for like-minded people and to avoid conflict. My goal is to help people stay out of the movement.
And this is certainly part of the battle. Kudos.

As for people who don't hold to certain teaching in WoF, I am reminded of my five points of WOFism... Just like three, four, and five point Calvinists, there are the same with WoF. If they don't hold to at least the first three points, they aren't Word Faith. Perhaps they are Charismatic or Pentecostal... Those three are little gods, JDS, and Faith/Confession, these three should normally be tied together... Health and wealth can cut across denominational lines i.e. Charismatic, Pentacostal, and perhaps others...
Define them as you see those terms.

"Little" gods is a Copeland/Dollar addition. But as I said, "Ye are gods" is scriptural. It's in the OT, and Jesus repeated it to the Jews.

JDS was a Hagin things, and he repented of it; Cope, though (and again), didn't and carried it forward. Added BAJ to it.

Faith/Confession - I want to see your definition. If you mean "force of faith," well, guess who. But if you mean a strong reliance (spoken) on your faith and confession therein, that cuts across charismatic churches as well. If you mean confession as in "repeat this verse like a magic spell," then I'm with you. A lot of WoF churches do this.

But I'd like to see your specific definitions again.
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
And this is certainly part of the battle. Kudos.


Define them as you see those terms.

"Little" gods is a Copeland/Dollar addition. But as I said, "Ye are gods" is scriptural. It's in the OT, and Jesus repeated it to the Jews.

JDS was a Hagin things, and he repented of it; Cope, though (and again), didn't and carried it forward. Added BAJ to it.

Faith/Confession - I want to see your definition. If you mean "force of faith," well, guess who. But if you mean a strong reliance (spoken) on your faith and confession therein, that cuts across charismatic churches as well. If you mean confession as in "repeat this verse like a magic spell," then I'm with you. A lot of WoF churches do this.

But I'd like to see your specific definitions again.

As far as Little Gods goes, Hinn said he was a Machiach like Christ. Of course, Copeland claimed to be another "I am". The implication has often been that our words are able to create like God's words. I don't know how many times I heard we can call things that are not as though they were. Why? Because we are made in the image of God. I disagree with your understanding of Ye are gods. We have discussed that before.

JDS started with Kenyon, carried on through Hagin, and found its full form in Copeland and his followers. You downplay Cope's impact upon the movement.

Regarding Faith and Confession, I am reminded of a post I created calling it a form of incantations.
 

Tallen

Well-known member
As far as Little Gods goes, Hinn said he was a Machiach like Christ. Of course, Copeland claimed to be another "I am". The implication has often been that our words are able to create like God's words. I don't know how many times I heard we can call things that are not as though they were. Why? Because we are made in the image of God. I disagree with your understanding of Ye are gods. We have discussed that before.

JDS started with Kenyon, carried on through Hagin, and found its full form in Copeland and his followers. You downplay Cope's impact upon the movement.

Regarding Faith and Confession, I am reminded of a post I created calling it a form of incantations.
Kenyon, Hagin, Copeland don't define wof..., but Andrew Murray, Robbie Dawkins and John Calvin do. Go figure. 🤔
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
Since I am musing, I mentioned the five doctrines that are held by WoF.

Now I would like to focus on some of the strange things that I have witnessed both here and in WoF Churches. One of my favorites are the numerous WoFFers who have claimed to be able to move storms, control the elements with their faith. One of my ultimate favorites was a guy who took the blame for a hurricane hitting the east coast because us critics caused him to doubt.

At the church that I went to, a young man committed suicide. Two guys decided to have a resurrection service at the funeral. the father of the young man had to hold back his anger then in strong terms, he told them to leave...

After leaving the WOF church, I attended a non-denominational church. one of the woffers came over afterwards. this woffer drove some of our youth in a bus to Great America. He tipped the bus over. no one was hurt. His answer for what had happened was he blamed one of the pastors for his negative confession. in his mind, it had nothing to do with his poor driving skills...

i have more stories...
 

BlessedAnomaly

Well-known member
Kenyon, Hagin, Copeland don't define wof..., but Andrew Murray, Robbie Dawkins and John Calvin do. Go figure. 🤔
I did find a newspaper article....

...but for the life of me I cannot make an image appear in my post. Anyone know details for such things? I've tried "attach file", "Image", and I've tried to just drag it in. It won't load.
 

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Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
Here is another musing. WoF posters can be some of the most cowardly deceptive people. My experience at christianforums dot com was distasteful at best. When I created a post, WoFFers would attach disagreeable "Key Words" to the Opening Post. One poster somehow changed my screen name from Yodas_Prodigy to my given name. One poster from Christian Forums came over to CARM with the only intention to personally attack all of us who oppose WOF. He soon got kicked out.
 

Tallen

Well-known member
Here is another musing. WoF posters can be some of the most cowardly deceptive people. My experience at christianforums dot com was distasteful at best. When I created a post, WoFFers would attach disagreeable "Key Words" to the Opening Post. One poster somehow changed my screen name from Yodas_Prodigy to my given name. One poster from Christian Forums came over to CARM with the only intention to personally attack all of us who oppose WOF. He soon got kicked out.
One of the rules was if you weren't a wofist, you couldn't refute any wofist post..., you could only ask questions. Then they would discipline non-wofist for asking questions about certain doctrines and statements that they said in their post. They tried very hard to keep the non-wofist out in order to keep an environment where anything wof goes. I even started a thread that was kind to wof, but it was taken down because I was "a critic".
 

Tallen

Well-known member
I'm trying a post with BA link.
 

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BlessedAnomaly

Well-known member
One of the rules was if you weren't a wofist, you couldn't refute any wofist post..., you could only ask questions. Then they would discipline non-wofist for asking questions about certain doctrines and statements that they said in their post. They tried very hard to keep the non-wofist out in order to keep an environment where anything wof goes. I even started a thread that was kind to wof, but it was taken down because I was "a critic".
Well, Christian Forums isn't a place for open conversation, cross denomination. Many of the forums there are "safe houses" for the given denomination or movement. There are places on Christian Forums were a WoFist and you could have an open conversation. But getting a WoF proponent to come out of their house and engage in such conversation....:sneaky:
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
Well, Christian Forums isn't a place for open conversation, cross denomination. Many of the forums there are "safe houses" for the given denomination or movement. There are places on Christian Forums were a WoFist and you could have an open conversation. But getting a WoF proponent to come out of their house and engage in such conversation....:sneaky:

So, what do think of the guy who changed my screen name to my given name? Rather cowardly. He must have scored some real points with his WOF buddies.
 

BlessedAnomaly

Well-known member
So, what do think of the guy who changed my screen name to my given name? Rather cowardly. He must have scored some real points with his WOF buddies.
Couldn't have been a normal user. Had to have been a moderator. I've told the story of the moderator who came against me (and then I posted a whole copy of a page out of Hagin's "Midas Touch" and he went off on how non-WoF that was, if you remember). Don't know if it was the same moderator. I've seen some vindictive moderators.
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
Word Faith has certainly created a number of Jezebels who usurp power from male leadership. One such Jezebel was married three times. When her third husband was suffering from depression due to selling his business and trying to retire, she sat in front of him at the hospital describing how she had to be a strong woman like her mother. During their marriage, she decided to "press" into the Kingdom by donating more of his money to the Church.
 
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