"works do not precede salvation"?

Righteousness is as righteousness does. Take your point to Cornelius. He was not saved, was not worshiping the God of the Jews and yet God called upon him based only on his righteousness. You claim is empty. It chokes out the spirit leaving those who heard it spiritually malnourished.
Apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith (Romans 4:5-6) there is only self righteousness. Those who practice righteousness do so because they are righteous and not in order to become righteous. (1 John 3:7-10)

In regards to Cornelius, in Acts 10:43, we read - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

These Gentiles BELIEVED, RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT AND WERE SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM.

Therefore if God gave to them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, (compare with Acts 10:45, 16:31) who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” This further confirms what I shared in post #9.

It's your point that is empty.
 
Works righteous groups just do not "get it." It just doesn't seem right to them that Jesus paid and did IT ALL. That we are helpless to save ourselves and must swallow our pride and admit we are helpless and turn to Jesus and humbly ask Him to save us and save us completely.

Could you explain for us how the testimony of the scriptures renders mankind helpless to obey God, or that the Biblical NT testimony doesn't mean we turn to God to inherit eternal life?

1 Timothy 4:16---King James Version
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

The faith without works groups just don't get it--it's a covenant--a two party agreement. Man's obedience to God--and God's grace unto life, as a personal reception. The elephant always left sitting in the room is--who does God extend His grace unto life, as a personal reception? That man is saved by God's grace isn't the argument, but rather--who does God give that grace to?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

God made that possible for all men--through His Atonement--as a free gift to all men.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men ar absolved of the condemnation of the Fall--and now answer for their own choices.

So--how do you explain that? Calling it "works righteous groups" won't solve the reason why the scriptures above claim something which runs sideways to your claim--and it only implicates the Biblical NT writers as "works righteous groups".

What else ya got?
 
Heh. Well, at least you answer questions instead of deflecting, let's see how you do with this one: so this "cleansing" is continuous, does that mean the person who murders someone is cleansed continually no matter how many times he murders? Can you explain how that works? I know a few adulterers who would like to be continuously cleansed like that.
No matter how many times he murders? Do you consider going on a murdering spree practicing righteousness or practicing sin? Do children of God practice murder and adultery? 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Galatians 5:19 - Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
 
That connects walking in the light as "descriptive" of "children of God" and ONLY children of God are "in the light." (Acts 26:18; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 5:8)

How does that disconnect the condition of walking in the light to receive the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So--about the scriptures you gave:

Acts 26:18-20---King James Version
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

2 Corinthians 6:14---King James Version

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

How does that make your point?

Ephesians 5:8---King James Version
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

That still connects the walk.

Acts 13:39 - and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Are these the ones who believed?

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Were they added before repentance and water baptism--for the remission of sins?

Is one saved prior to the remission of sins?

The blood of Christ cleanses believers of their sins at the moment of salvation

That only renders salvation as being contingent upon walking in the light:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
 
Galatians 5:19 - Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

That only connects works with the kingdom of God.

So--could you explain for us how one could avoid Paul's condemnation above--without obeying the commandments?

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in

Are you now standing in Bonnie's line of "works salvation" group?
 
Anyone who keeps the commandments regardless if they believe your tripe or not.
1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" Greek word "tereo" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. None of us (except for Jesus Christ) have flawlessly obeyed all of His commandments 100% of the time. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10)

I know a lot of so-called Christians who don't keep the commandments, a few preachers of this nonsense as well.
There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal/pseudo" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and this includes preachers.

Tell me, who walks in the light? The sinner or the follower of Christ? Who do you think the audience was that this passage was directed to? Would you go look it up and tell me if it was to the church or to the people on Mars hill? Who are the "we" in that passage. I'll give you a hint, that "we" included John an apostle of Jesus. He's not talking to the children of wrath there. He's talking to you and your ilk. You only walk in the light if you keep the commandments. If not, then you are not walking in the light.
John is writing to Christ followers, yet it's not hard to find "nominal/pseudo" Christians/make believers mixed in with the group. Hence, If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth. (1 John 1:6) IN CONTRAST WITH - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7) John is making a distinction between the sheep and the goats.

I hope that hint helps you out.
I hope what I shared with you helps you out.

Yes. Those who keep the commandments are walking in the light. But those who claim they are the children of God, who are not keeping the commandments, well, I guess by your claim, they must not be the children of God.
Please explain to me what YOU believe it means to "keep the commandments" and which commandments.

It does. That's why those who are not baptized cannot be saved.
"The scriptures connect repentance and water baptism with the forgiveness of sins" was not my quote and I already thoroughly explained Acts 2:38 in post #9. Show me where the Bible says that "whoever is not baptized will not be saved." That is found NOWHERE in the Bible. Instead, we find ..but whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16(b). John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

But, I have to ask, what does repentance mean?
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side, (the new direction of this change of mind). Acts 20:21 - testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

What happens to the person who repents but doesn't change and keeps repenting of the same sin? Has he repented or is he just putting off the inevitable?
You like to ask loaded questions. Salvation is not received based on the merits of commandment keeping and sinless perfection. It';s obvious from your statements in this thread that you teach works salvation. If we are truly born of God then there will be change and we will grow in the Lord (some faster than others). What sin do you keep repeating?
 
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that
The only logical conclusion I can come to is that we shouldn't depend on you to draw logical conclusions or to harmonize the scriptures. You guys tend to adjust the scriptures to sit your needs and not the other way around.
faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit
That quote didn't exist in the scriptures anywhere. You are using it as emphasis of your own misguided ideas. The harmony found in the scriptures centers around Jesus Christ. Everything else needs to harmonize with that. If no one can enter the kingdom of God without baptism then that ordinance is very very necessary. There is no getting around it. Sorry.
Your biased church doctrine and twisting of scripture violates the testimony presented by the scripture
That may be your opinion, but that is the testimony of the scriptures.
How does one become a servant of obedience unto righteousness?
A "servant of obedience"? What is that? How does one serve obedience?
 
Who walks in the light?

Those desiring the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Just as those who come to be baptized desire the remission of sins:

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Children of God or children of the devil? Children of God. IF we walk in the light is a confirmation for children of God.

How does any of that somehow cover up or cancel out the testimony of the scriptures testifying walking in the light is a condition to the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ?

So you are saying that walking in the light merely describes receiving water baptism? One is not saved prior to receiving remission of sins and everyone who believes in Him receives remission of sins (Acts 10:43) prior to receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:44-47)

I'm not sure where you got the "merely"--I asked you if those who repent and are baptized for the remission of sins--is an example of those who walk in the light?

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first.

What a load of hooey!

Where do we find that here?

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Editing the scriptures to fit your theology is your choice--but that edit, and the reasons why-- seems a little obvious to me.

So--how do you edit this?

Acts 22:16---King James Version
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
 
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

That won't help you either--as Peter's testimony still connects obedience to being accepted of God:

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins.

Again--are these to ones who believe?

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:48---King James Version
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
 
Everything with you revolves around SALVATION BY WORKS and there is a reason for that. How does one become a servant of obedience unto righteousness? By faith or by works? We must first obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16) in order to become righteous.

1 John 3:7---King James Version
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.


Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

This belief?

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

That only connects obedience as an integral component of "believes" in Romans10:10.

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants of sin unto death, or servants of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness." Being servants of sin is put in the past tense.

Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness." Works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stresses "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow" saving faith in Christ are "unto righteousness,"

Again--your argument is with the scriptures--not me:

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 
No. He was asking if that is an example, Repentance included.
Repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin. Where you have one you will find the other.

So, are you saying that one is not saved prior to baptism?
NO. (Acts 10:43-47)

That only connects baptism with those who believe in him. Baptism = a remission of sins. You can't get it any other way.
False. Salvation by water baptism is taught in false religions and cults.

Billions of people believe in Jesus Christ and continue to walk in darkness, even devils believe.
Believe in the existence of Jesus Christ and continue to walk in darkness perhaps, but those who believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ and are saved (Acts 16:31) and are born of God/children of God (1 John 3:9-10) do not walk in darkness. Works-salvationists cannot seem to grasp a deeper belief/faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (which also explains why you have so much faith in water and works). Also, in James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness" and"hates his brother" is connected with "children of the devil."

No one receives a remission of their sins until and unless they are baptized.
False. These Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirt and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE receiving water baptism.

This is the ordinance that marks the beginning of a lifelong path to salvation. Without it, no one can enter the kingdom of God. No one.
False and false. Your so called lifelong path to salvation culminates in a "works based" false gospel.

While is true that those who do not believe will probably not get baptized, hence believing is a prerequisite for baptism, it is not a substitute.
There are many people who may believe in the existence of Christ and in historical facts about Christ, yet fail to believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved, yet get water baptized anyway because the false religion or cult they attend taught them that they must be water baptized in order to be saved. Sadly, this describes a lot of people who are "religious, but not right with God."

That just doesn't make any sense. You just made that up. If you're not going to accept baptism all the repentance in the world is not going to get you into kingdom of God.
What I explained in post #9 makes perfect sense and I properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

It is mandatory. It's not a side note. Your opinion aside. Jesus set the standard. You guys as making Jesus'words the side note. I believe it's all done to save the damned who repent at death (that's probably where baptism by sprinkling a little water came from) and to accept those that think their baptism within another church should be good enough. Frankly, your religions are religions of convenience.
Yeah, blah, blah, blah.. :rolleyes:

You all don't want to put anyone off and are in it more for the money than for the gospel.
What do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)

No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they have been baptised of water and of the spirit.
You just rewrote John 3:5. Jesus said, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Nothing is mentioned here about baptism. I'm really not interested in your Mormon eisegesis.

In regards to the word "water" in scripture, Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

The word "water" is also used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.

*So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.*

A witness of the spirit is not enough, it must be received by the laying on of hands by one having authority and that authority must come from God, not some college professor.
More Mormon eisegesis.

They received A gift of the Holy Ghost, not The gift.
No, they received THE gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 10:45 - And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. Now in addition to that, they also received the spiritual gift of tongues. We do not receive the gift of tongues, which is only for the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:4-12), without first receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit (indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit). We don't receive "a" gift of the Holy Spirit until we first receive "the gift of the Holy Spirit" and these Gentiles clearly received "the gift of the Holy Spirit" before they were baptized. To believe otherwise is to be blatantly dishonest!

Doesn't matter, most everyone receives a witness of the Holy Ghost before they are baptized. The Holy Ghost can fall on anyone it chooses when ever it chooses. The gift itself can only be received after a covenant is made to receive Christ through baptism, the watery grace (not sprinkles).
You are deceived. :(

Note: regardless of the illogical conclusions which are drawn here by our critics, it is obvious that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. There is no escaping that fact though our critics have made it a profession to do so. The order of events, which they seem to think is an important talking point, while it is, it's just not the issue they make it out to be. The holy ghost can fall on anyone, that's up to the Holy Ghost, not us or the people preaching the gospel. That witness has no saving value. It is not a ticket to enter heaven by itself. One must exercise faith in Jesus Christ by committing to follow him and his teachings through baptism of water and of the spirit. There is no other way.
Regardless of your Mormon eisegesis and your "works based" false gospel, man is saved by grace through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) and these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 clearly believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues and were saved prior to receiving water baptism. Period. You can choose to remain in denial and trust in a "different" gospel of "works righteousness" that cannot save you (2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Galatians 1:6-9) or else you can repent and believe the gospel. Let me know when you are ready to believe the true gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of your salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
 
How does that disconnect the condition of walking in the light to receive the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So--about the scriptures you gave:

Acts 26:18-20---King James Version
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

2 Corinthians 6:14---King James Version

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

How does that make your point?

Ephesians 5:8---King James Version
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

That still connects the walk.





Are these the ones who believed?

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Were they added before repentance and water baptism--for the remission of sins?

Is one saved prior to the remission of sins?



That only renders salvation as being contingent upon walking in the light:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
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Could you explain for us how the testimony of the scriptures renders mankind helpless to obey God, or that the Biblical NT testimony doesn't mean we turn to God to inherit eternal life?

1 Timothy 4:16---King James Version
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

The faith without works groups just don't get it--it's a covenant--a two party agreement. Man's obedience to God--and God's grace unto life, as a personal reception. The elephant always left sitting in the room is--who does God extend His grace unto life, as a personal reception? That man is saved by God's grace isn't the argument, but rather--who does God give that grace to?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

God made that possible for all men--through His Atonement--as a free gift to all men.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men ar absolved of the condemnation of the Fall--and now answer for their own choices.

So--how do you explain that? Calling it "works righteous groups" won't solve the reason why the scriptures above claim something which runs sideways to your claim--and it only implicates the Biblical NT writers as "works righteous groups".

What else ya got?
 

Not everyone considers the scriptural testimony as a dead horse.

Care to engage the scriptures?

How does that disconnect the condition of walking in the light to receive the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So--about the scriptures you gave:

Acts 26:18-20---King James Version
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

2 Corinthians 6:14---King James Version

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

How does that make your point?

Ephesians 5:8---King James Version
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

That still connects the walk.

Are these the ones who believed?

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Were they added before repentance and water baptism--for the remission of sins?

Is one saved prior to the remission of sins?

That only renders salvation as being contingent upon walking in the light:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
 
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Note, Dan, that this Mormon post is nothing but a repetition, with no dealing whatsoever with what any of us wrote regarding walking in the light.

That's a false accusation, as anyone reading the posts can discern.

I'm still waiting:

Who walks in the light?

dberrie said---Those desiring the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Just as those who come to be baptized desire the remission of sins:

Acts 2:38-42---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

That connects walking in the light as "descriptive" of "children of God" and ONLY children of God are "in the light." (Acts 26:18; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 5:8)

dberrie said--How does that disconnect the condition of walking in the light to receive the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
 
Apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith (Romans 4:5-6)
Read it in context. The work he's talking about is circumcision, not obedience to God's word. He described Abraham who is an excellent

"Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes ina him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness"

This passage could read, now to the one who is circumcised for, the purposes of the law, his wages are not counted as a gift but as is due or so he imagines. And to the one who is not circumcised but believes in Jesus Christ, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.

This was the problem amongst the Jews. It was a common thing that Paul referred to where in the Jews boasted that they were the children of the promise because of circumcision. They insisted that the gentiles who were adopted into or in among the children of promise that in order to be so they had to be circumcised. Paul's theme then went on to say circumcision of the heart, which is the newness of life, was equal to a physical circumcision if not better. For the one might be circumcised, if he did not keep the commandments, he could not be saved.

The same thing applies to any Christian who refuses to get baptized. It is the way. If you cannot receive Christ through baptism by water and of the spirit you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That is what Jesus Christ said.

What you all have done is take a confusing passage and bent it to your will. You all really have no clue what the passage says at all.
 
Bonnie--the problem for the critics here isn't how one walks in the light--it's the fact the Biblical testimony connects walking in the light as a condition to receiving His cleansing Blood:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.



A "walk in the light" does precede the cleansing Blood of Jesus Christ:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So--is one saved prior to the Blood of Christ cleansing them? Bonnie--that's the question one might want to face in the testimony found in 1John1:7.



One cannot blame "Mormons" for what the Biblical scriptures bear testimony to in 1John1:7--that is a diversionary tactic.

You, and the critics here--if you are interested in engaging what the Biblical NT testifies to--need to engage what the actual scriptures testify to--not what you can blame on the LDS, or add to that testimony, so it might comport to your theology.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9---King James Version
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Post no. 5.
 
Could you explain for us how the testimony of the scriptures renders mankind helpless to obey God, or that the Biblical NT testimony doesn't mean we turn to God to inherit eternal life?

1 Timothy 4:16---King James Version
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

The faith without works groups just don't get it--it's a covenant--a two party agreement. Man's obedience to God--and God's grace unto life, as a personal reception. The elephant always left sitting in the room is--who does God extend His grace unto life, as a personal reception? That man is saved by God's grace isn't the argument, but rather--who does God give that grace to?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

God made that possible for all men--through His Atonement--as a free gift to all men.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men ar absolved of the condemnation of the Fall--and now answer for their own choices.

So--how do you explain that? Calling it "works righteous groups" won't solve the reason why the scriptures above claim something which runs sideways to your claim--and it only implicates the Biblical NT writers as "works righteous groups".

What else ya got?

Post no. 5.
 
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