"works righteousness"

Bonnie

Super Member
They might but they also would not know what they are talking about. The issue is with our own works, not the works of God which believers do.
No, I wouldn't label your approach as 'works righteousness." We know that it is God Who enables us to DO the good works He has prepared in advance for us to do, but we do them IN faith in Christ Jesus our Lord, for we are CREATED IN HIM to DO Them.

We give God all the glory. Apart from Jesus Christ, we are dead branches, unable to bear any good fruit.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
A real true s
So--is "real, true saving faith" necessary for salvation to occur?

Is it "real. true saving faith" without the works?



Could you explain why the Savior separated the sheep and goats on the basis demonstrated in this parable?

Matthew 25:31-46---King James Version
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Is that an example of "works righteousness"?



Would this apply here?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
A real true saving faith will be accompanied by works of love and toward others, and obedience to Jesus Christ, since the Law is written on our hearts now,, and not on tablets of stone, but those works do not save us--grace thru faith in Jesus Christ DOES--so why do you keep asking the same question over and over, pretending we have not answered you? Do you think our answers will change? Would you like to see archived posts that prove we have?
 

Tertiumquid

Active member
A real true saving faith will be accompanied by works of love and toward others, and obedience to Jesus Christ, since the Law is written on our hearts now,, and not on tablets of stone, but those works do not save us--grace thru faith in Jesus Christ DOES--so why do you keep asking the same question over and over, pretending we have not answered you? Do you think our answers will change? Would you like to see archived posts that prove we have?
For me, one of the wonderful aspects of being in a "confessional" church is not having to reinvent the wheel and also having the ability to state upfront what one clearly believes:

"Good works must certainly and without all doubt follow a true faith (provided only it not be a dead but a living faith), as fruits of a good tree" (Formula of Concord 4.A.1)

This was a standard Reformation position of the magisterial churches:

"For we are saved by grace and by the benefit of Christ alone. Works do necessarily proceed from faith; but salvation is improperly attributed to them, which is most properly ascribed to grace" (Second Helvetic Confession 16)
"It is impossible that those who are implanted into Christ by true faith should not bring forth fruits of righteousness" (Heidelberg Catechism A64)

Even the Westminster standards maintained it later on:

"Sanctification is the work [process] of God's free grace, whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness" (WSC A35)
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
It is impossible that those who are implanted into Christ by true faith should not bring forth fruits of righteousness" (Heidelberg Catechism A64)

For me--that only connects "true faith" with the "fruits of righteousness" as integral to one another--which I agree with.

I have a question for the Lutherans:

Is it "true faith" prior to, and independent of-- the "fruits of righteousness"?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
A real true s

A real true saving faith will be accompanied by works of love and toward others, and obedience to Jesus Christ, since the Law is written on our hearts now,, and not on tablets of stone, but those works do not save us--grace thru faith in Jesus Christ DOES--

Bonnie--if one is going to do a hard connect between "real true saving faith" with works of love--then those works of love are integral to one being saved--unless you are claiming "real true saving faith" isn't necessary for salvation to occur.

Lutherans exclude all works in obtaining salvation, then connect "true saving faith" with works--then attempt to do the disconnect between faith and works by claiming such things as--"but only the faith part is the saving portion". If works are integral to "real true saving faith", as you claim--then the works are integral to being saved also. Else--works aren't integral to "real true saving faith", or "real true saving faith" isn't necessary for salvation to occur.

That's the great anomaly the Lutherans refuse to acknowledge--and one reason faith alone theology is false:

James 2:24----English Standard Version
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
 
Top