World Leaders Must Be Infallible Also

Hibernian

Well-known member
Being the leader of the Catholic Church doesn't mean you speak for God, that's not what his role is. An infallible statement doesn't mean you speak for God either - it just means that, when pronounced, it cannot be wrong.

For instance, here's an infallible statement: "A bachelor is an unmarried man." I can say that without speaking for God.
But you cannot say that homosexuality is ok and speak for God, so the fact that he said so proves that he doesn't.

When I quote he Bible which says that you shall not lie with a man as with a woman then I speak for God because I use the same words that God uses.

Which of course means that your pope is wrong because he opposes God, and what he says is contrary to God's decree.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
But you cannot say that homosexuality is ok and speak for God, so the fact that he said so proves that he doesn't.
Where does Pope Francis say that homosexual actions are okay? Can you please quote a source.
When I quote he Bible which says that you shall not lie with a man as with a woman then I speak for God because I use the same words that God uses.
That's doubtful. Just uttering words in the Bible doesn't mean you speak for God because the words are interpreted and applied - and unless God is directing you how to do that, I'd be a bit more cautious.
 

Hibernian

Well-known member
Where does Pope Francis say that homosexual actions are okay? Can you please quote a source.

That's doubtful. Just uttering words in the Bible doesn't mean you speak for God because the words are interpreted and applied - and unless God is directing you how to do that, I'd be a bit more cautious.
You shall not lie with a man as with a woman.

I add Nothing to that quotation from Leviticus
 

Hibernian

Well-known member
Where does Pope Francis say that homosexual actions are okay? Can you please quote a source.

That's doubtful. Just uttering words in the Bible doesn't mean you speak for God because the words are interpreted and applied - and unless God is directing you how to do that, I'd be a bit more cautious.
Let's not be stupid here. If you quote the Pope you are quoting the words of the Pope, and if I quote the Bible I'm quoting the words of God..

I am not asking you to apply and interpret the words of the Pope. I understand English.

Must be very strange to believe that you have to interpret the words of God. I wonder if we have to interpret the words of the Pope also. And if we do have to interpret the word of the Pope, can you tell me who is authorised to do that?
 

Hibernian

Well-known member
You shall not lie with a man as with a woman.


Only a person who doesn't understand English needs to have these words interpreted.
 

Hibernian

Well-known member
If I bear witness to myself, my witness is not true. John 5:31

What an amazing statement to come from the Lord Jesus Christ, creator of the universe.

Read it again -

If I bear witness to myself, my witness is not true.

So why would we ask the Pope to prove who he says he is from his own witness only?

Given, of course, that the Pope is not God.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
No pope is impeccable, without personal sin. And it's nothing new to those who are familiar with Pope Francis. To safeguard the sanctity of marriage, he has been in support of civil-unions for years.
Doesn't Holy Scripture and Roman Catholic Tradition make it impossible for Roman Catholicism to simply reinvent its sexual ethics?
 

Hibernian

Well-known member
How strange that when making a decision on homosexuality, the Pope could not simply open the Bible and decide according to what God has already decreed, given that the Pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ, which is not a false claim that any world leader is making.
 

mica

Well-known member
jonathan_hili said:
Where does Pope Francis say that homosexual actions are okay? Can you please quote a source.

That's doubtful. Just uttering words in the Bible doesn't mean you speak for God because the words are interpreted and applied - and unless God is directing you how to do that, I'd be a bit more cautious.
you should advise your priest, popes and magisterium of that.
 

Hibernian

Well-known member
Where does Pope Francis say that homosexual actions are okay? Can you please quote a source.

That's doubtful. Just uttering words in the Bible doesn't mean you speak for God because the words are interpreted and applied - and unless God is directing you how to do that, I'd be a bit more cautious.
I'll remember that next time your pope utters something.

I Never Said that what the Bible says is true according to an interpretation. What I said is that the words of God are true, so why did you mention interpretation?

By the way, who interprets the words of your Pope?

So God only utters words but your pope speaks oracles?
 

Hibernian

Well-known member
Where does Pope Francis say that homosexual actions are okay? Can you please quote a source.

That's doubtful. Just uttering words in the Bible doesn't mean you speak for God because the words are interpreted and applied - and unless God is directing you how to do that, I'd be a bit more cautious.
The words of God are true no matter who utters them.

What blasphemy to put the words of the Pope above the words of God.

Who interprets your Pope's words? I would say that God is the judge of your Pope's words, and God's word proves that your Pope is fake.
 

Hibernian

Well-known member
Is it your belief that the pope is always infallible?
It is my belief that the Pope is never infallible and that no one ever is. Why should I even think it?

Of course God is infallible but then again God is not a man

And of course because God is infallible he is the one who will correct your Pope.

Ask me again if I believe in the tooth fairy.
 
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Hibernian

Well-known member
Jesus said : If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. John 5:31

Can somebody tell me how a man's own witness of himself can possibly be true?

So the Pope is who THE POPE says he is?

Smacks forehead!
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
I'll remember that next time your pope utters something.

I Never Said that what the Bible says is true according to an interpretation. What I said is that the words of God are true, so why did you mention interpretation?
For the simple reason that you need an interpretation to derive any meaning from it.
By the way, who interprets the words of your Pope?
Variously. He can be asked about things he said to clarify (and sometimes this is done through the Vatican press office); then it falls down to the bishops. The difference with having a living magisterium (whether a head pope, or bishops, or pastors, or whatever) is that you can ask them for clarity and get contemporary application of biblical principles in a way that would be absent without it. I suspect that's one of the main reasons that Jesus established a Church.
So God only utters words but your pope speaks oracles?
??? I have no idea what you mean by this.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
The words of God are true no matter who utters them.

What blasphemy to put the words of the Pope above the words of God.

Who interprets your Pope's words? I would say that God is the judge of your Pope's words, and God's word proves that your Pope is fake.
*sigh* Again, you haven't been able to find one quote where the pope says what you want him to say, have you?
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
It is my belief that the Pope is never infallible and that no one ever is. Why should I even think it?

Of course God is infallible but then again God is not a man

And of course because God is infallible he is the one who will correct your Pope.

Ask me again if I believe in the tooth fairy.
So, where the writers of the biblical texts infallible when they were writing? Was Paul infallible at times?
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Jesus said : If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. John 5:31

Can somebody tell me how a man's own witness of himself can possibly be true?

So the Pope is who THE POPE says he is?

Smacks forehead!
A man's own witness of himself can be true if he's speaking the truth. The reason Jesus is saying this here is because of the kind of truth he is professing.
 
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